Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #81

[kscornfed]

I understand that but what I mean is, if your client is deadset that THIS is what happened "he was a pedophile, he was abusive, I had to shoot him!" what else can a defense lawyer do than try to do the best he can with what his client tells him happened?

And I don't think laywers are allowed knowingly to lie/let their clients lie on the stand.

"The lawyer is skeptical of the client’s story, but he’s under no obligation to fact-check the client. Rather, the lawyer can argue that it is his duty as a “zealous” advocate to accept the client’s version of the story, and try to produce evidence to support that story.So, to recap, a lawyer should not lie, commit perjury, or encourage others to lie or commit perjury.One thing a lawyer cannot do, however, is encourage the client to get up on the stand and give false testimony. In that situation, the client commits perjury, but the lawyer commits a distinct crime known as “suborning perjury,” and it’s a very serious offense."
http://legallad.quickanddirtytips.com/can-lawyers-lie.aspx (not the best source, but grabbed the first thing on google lol)

i have to bow out of this discussion. i think my feelings on this subject are already known. i just don't think kirk nurmi is a stupid person and i don't believe he thinks she's innocent any more than we do. they chose this defense and it's his job to support it. he really had to put her on the stand in order for it to succeed. doesn't mean he thinks it's true and i would think the judge is aware of the position he's in, and he's doing his job. that's all i can say about it.

 

[SusieD]

If it was a woman brandishing a knife at me while I was in that enclosure I would close the door and hold it first, think about the situation, talk to the attacker, come up with a plan and proceed once I had more control of the situation. I would want to use the door for my defense and hit the woman with it when the time was right.

But first you would have to come almost out of the shower in order to close the door.

I don't think she brandished the knife at all. When he was sitting in the shower she lunged and stabbed him. There is a stab wound in what would have been the most vunerable place when he was sitting in that position, down and to the right of the nipple.

I do think at some point in that bathroom she held the gun to her head and threatened suicide. When and why I don't know

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Is Deanna Reid going to testify? She hasn't already-has she?

Only during closed door hearings so far, but knowing the things Juan pulls out of his sleeves, who knows what's coming up on rebuttal?

 

[G&AMom]

If anyone has a problem similar to the one described above, call your state senator or congresspersons office. They have people to help you there. It is truly amazing how a well placed phone call from them can expeditiously handle all sorts of things. I am truly sorry you had to go through this for so long.

I assume you're talking to the original poster, not me. My situation moved between annoying and hilarious, in a sick kind of way.

The original poster's situation is horrible. To have to spend time going to the courthouse and be questioned by attorneys, when you know they aren't going to allow you to serve on a jury, just seems like torture to me. I agree that she should call her state reps. There ought to be SOME way to prevent this.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I have asked several times, but can't get a response that makes sense...why would Jodi take pictures of Travis in the shower without his knowledge? Nothing about this hypothesis makes sense to me. I can't understand why people think Jodi would have done this especially since neither side has suggested It. And no, I don't accept "that's just crazy Jodi" as a good answer!

Why it doesn't make sense:
1. Use of flash
2. He's looking right in the camera at the end
3. He's clearly posing in the pics of his back
4. She deleted the pictures (not blackmail)
5. She planned to kill him....in the shower and this was a way to get him in there and not have him be suspicious about why she's in the bathroom with him

Please, someone enlighten me.

Jodi took photo's of DB in the shower without his knowlege, so why not Travis also?

 

[Hatfield]

Not to be gross, but have you ever seen the infamous R. Budd Dwyer suicide footage? Dwyer was treasurer of the State of Pennsylvania in the late 80s caught up in a corruption scandal over procurement contracts. He held a press conference, rambled on a bit, then reached into a manila envelope, pulled out a .357 magnum revolver and, before anyone could stop him, put the gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger.

The effect was instantaneous. He dropped like someone kicked out his knees. The bullet went through the roof of his mouth, through his sinuses and exited out the top of his head just behind his frontal lobes.

Not only did he drop immediately, but the amount of blood that came from not his mouth, or the top of his head, but out his nose was so copious that, quite frankly, it looked fake.

Although he used a larger, more powerful bullet, the track of the bullet is very similar to that of Travis Alexander, just with entrance and exit reversed, both transversed the brain and sinuses.

Even with a smaller round the cavitation through the entire brain would have been like being hit with a baseball bat. The amount of hemorrhaging through the nose and mouth would be massive and not the "coughed up blood" seen in the sink, which seems to be a result of the knife strike to the inferior vena cava that probably nicked lung structure, the esophagus, or both.

I just can't see anyone being shot in the head, get up from a squatting position in a shower stall, fight their way out of the stall and pause at the mirror for a look.

Since the "shot first" argument doesn't agree with the Medical Examiner's findings, precedents in gunshot wounds, the timeline of the murder and a whole bunch of stuff, can someone explain to me the significance (or agenda) of insisting the head shot came first?

As you mentioned the .25 and a .357 are totally different as far as power. The .25 is notoriously small and is basically 1 step up from a .22. But even though we know they can do a lot of damage too, it is the trajectory path that the bullet followed that is important. From what little I remember hearing about the path I seem to recall it missed most of his brain. I think it did hit his sinus cavities.

But in any event, there are tons of cases of people being shot and still having the wherewithall to keep moving for some period of time. It all depends and each case is totally different.

I dont want to bring up the chicken that lived for some months without its head again.

Not trying to convince anyone differently but I think the shot came first for a lot of reasons. One main reason is she brought the gun there and for her it would be the easiest way to kill him without getting too close to him and risk him stopping her. I think she brought it there and used it as her primary weapon. When the shell jammed, it ruined her initial plan.

By the way, small caliber guns like the .25 are notorious for jamming when you dont buy shells that have extra gunpowder. She would not have known that probably. I always buy special shells for all my semi-autos and it helps prevent gun jamming. It is the number of grains of powder that is listed on the box that you have to know what is regular and what is above average to use.

 

[Nali87]

i have to bow out of this discussion. i think my feelings on this subject are already known. i just don't think kirk nurmi is a stupid person and i don't believe he thinks she's innocent any more than we do. they chose this defense and it's his job to support it. he really had to put her on the stand in order for it to succeed. doesn't mean he thinks it's true and i would think the judge is aware of the position he's in, and he's doing his job. that's all i can say about it.

I think that goes for a lot of defense attorneys though. I just don't think the man should be made to be a monster or an ally to Jodi just for doing his job. (Not saying you did that, but from what I've read online). I think defense lawyers know when their clients are guilty or not, but they have a job to do. And I think he should be respected for trying to do it well, even if his client is scum. IMO.

 

[GoodGurl]

Juan has brought up the 'rug by the bathtub' several times, and JA always says she doesn't remember a rug there. I think JM may theorize that's where she hid the knife. Then got down on her knees in the photo shoot, and grabbed it from there.

 

[luvtenniss]

It was after the jury questions when he was questioning her about Mimi Hall and Cancun. She was reiterating her "not jealous about Cancun" nonsense and she said this.

I know it's odd, but I do believe he told her this. They had openly talked (phone sex tape) about marrying others and I don't think he realized telling her this would set her off. Perhaps he even thought it would make her back off?? I definitely think he told her BEFORE the end of May...before the sociopath texts and such. I do not think he ever told her Mimi told him she only wanted to be friends.

I don't know. Call me crazy, but I think that statement was true. And I also think that was her motive--she thought he was going to marry Mimi, and she could no longer use sex as a means to keep him.

IMO

If he did tell her about God/Mimi before the sociopath text (I agree that he didn't tell her about the just friends part), maybe JA told Travis someone told her they knew Mimi and Travis were having sex and that they might go to the bishop. JA would say she was telling Travis only to be helping him. Of course, she would just be trying to get Travis to not want to take Mimi to avoid further speculation.

 

[SunnyinMO]

Actually I'm disappointed in most everyone associated with this trial. Add to that, IMO, JA is overcharged.

Would you please elaborate....who are you disappointed with and WHY? And what do you think she should be charged with and WHY??

 

[sacrablue]

Maybe if someone has military training or is a police officer, I could see them doing that. Not sure if an ordinary person could count on thinking that fast.

Your natural reaction when threatened is either to freeze or run. It would be interesting to test but I believe most people would not advance towards someone with a knife as a first rection. We are going to flee or set up defense after the initial shock.

 

[JayB12]

Poor man.

I kinda think the steroids may have played a role in his current condition. They are not usually good to kidneys.

 

[G&AMom]

Here is someone who has portayed Jodi writing in her diary I thought it was funny.
It was good for a chuckle.Borrowed this from another site.This is not Jodi writing this.

Dear Diary,

Well, I must say that these jurors are starting to get on my nerves. I tried to be my usual peppy, happy go lucky self and look on the bright side, but I have just about had it. I'm starting to feel like I want to get stabby again. I wanted to say that today, but Nurmi felt it would be in poor taste. Considering Travis "passed away" from me getting stabby. Whatev.

I mean, really, I don't know why they keep asking me if I have memory problems. Um, I think I proved that my memory is awesome. Don't they remember all the details I gave before? So what if I have memory problems about things that make me look guilty? That is to be expected. It's part of the post traumatic stress I went under when I murdered Travis. It was no ordinary murder. Have they seen the pictures? That was very traumatic for me. I'm the real victim here. I know the domestic violence experts will testify and set them straight. I just have to put up with Fartinez until then. I really wish I could kill him. No, really. I think about it every single night.

Also, do they forget the abuse I suffered while Travis was still alive? That **** in my eyes really stung. And, being woken up to oral sex was very irritating. I was having a very good dream and Travis completely interrupted it. The straw that broke the camels back was when he was giving me oral sex and he hadn't even shaved yet! He felt like sandpaper on my thighs. Sandpaper!!!! That is abuse NO woman should ever have to be subjected to. Is it any wonder to them that I finally fought back?

I am grateful for the long weekend. I have a lot of work to do on the autobiography I am writing. I think I am going to call it "Mortal Fear." It will be a best seller no doubt. I've only written a little bit so far. Just 2,000 pages. I've only made it to my elementary school years. I better get busy. I'd like to have it done by the time I am set free. I know the jurors will want autographed copies.

Till next time,
Jodi

BBM. The very definition of chutzpah! :floorlaugh:

 

[katiedid2]

If you are given a choice between facing a person with a knife either in a shower or in a nice sized room...you would choose a shower??

If I had a choice I would prefer to be shot until I take my last breath! Stabbing is so cruel and painful.

 

[lilyet]

Hi all! Sure wish there was trial today!
I showed my hubby the shower pics. He said he thought Travis had to know she was there because with a glass door, how could someone go for over 5 minutes without knowing someone else was there. He said, "there's no way you wouldn't know I was right there for that long". He said it looked like she said something to him that made him turn around in surprise at 5:27:18. Not sure I agree with him, but thought I'd pass it on.

Now I have a question. Can you tell what is in the pic at 5:28:54????

I know we aren't allowed to post the pics here, but hopefully this link of them is ok.
http://thepotpapers.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/collage_zps00e64932.jpg

Not sure of order, but imo stabs, slit throat, stabs, gunshot. Whatever the order, she had to have been in a maniacal frenzied crazy psycho mode, how does one do that much carnage in about a minute and 45 sec. From 5:30-30secs to 5:36- 16 secs. Insane, she was a wild ninja and just took him down hard and fast.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It would be so chancy to attack a man in a small enclosure. She is left handed and I would need to see which way the door opened but not an easy job to get a mortal wound off by the assailant. Potential struggle degree would be very high.

Well female murderers take chances a lot and are high risk takers just like any murderer. Actually a lot of female murderers prefer hands on weapons/methods where they have up close and personal contact with their male victim. They tend to want to be able to be right up at the victim whether they use a knife, axe, hammer, or some other gruesome close contact weapon.

Travis isnt the only larger male to lose his life this way by being murderered by a much smaller female. Over 660 men are murdered each year by females who were in a relationship with them or had been. The methods run the gambit.

Any victim that has no weapon to protect themself with and only the perpretrator has the killing weapon then this is going to be the results. The ME said the knife blade had to be around 5.5 or 6 inches long. That is a very dangerous weapon that can mortally wound someone with just one stab.....and here we have 29 stabs, slit throat with that knife showing how heinous and sharp it was. It almost decapitated this poor man. Travis never stood a chance.

IMO

 

[rose222]

I have asked several times, but can't get a response that makes sense...why would Jodi take pictures of Travis in the shower without his knowledge? Nothing about this hypothesis makes sense to me. I can't understand why people think Jodi would have done this especially since neither side has suggested It. And no, I don't accept "that's just crazy Jodi" as a good answer!

Why it doesn't make sense:
1. Use of flash
2. He's looking right in the camera at the end
3. He's clearly posing in the pics of his back
4. She deleted the pictures (not blackmail)
5. She planned to kill him....in the shower and this was a way to get him in there and not have him be suspicious about why she's in the bathroom with him

Please, someone enlighten me.

I agree with everything you said except that I think she deleted the photos after she murdered him. I don't think it's a likely scenario that Travis while showering was also looking at the photos to see which ones should be deleted. I think she lured up by asking (read begging) him to pose for photos so he would be cornered. I think she pulled her weapons out just before the last head shot of him.

 

[audreyparker]

years ago, companies would make up the difference between the small amount earned from jury duty and your work pay. I doubt they do this anymore either, maybe some companies still honor this...good for them.

I'm lucky that the company I work for, gives you your entire regular pay for jury duty. And I've had jury duty before, so I know that for sure. I know all companies don't have to do this, but it is nice.

 

[Maryann123]

I have to check out of here in less than an hour, and I'm not sure when I'll have time to get back to reading here. (will have my granddaughter till Thursday night) I have a few observations I'd like to add, and I want to know what others are thinking. Juan has asked Jodi the same questions over, and over and over. He won't accept, I guess, that makes sense, I think, etc. He wants her pinned down, with no way to wiggle out. I think those points are the ones Juan has that will really impeach her. The gas cans are one example, and now we know why. The finger cut was another. Asking her about having a GPS on the rental car is hopefully going to be huge! I'm just hoping that car had an internal GPS, and we get to see exactly where Jodi was on that trip. If she burned her clothes, etc. and they can find that location, at the very least the zipper on her sweat pants would have survived the fire. A big glob of melted plastic from the Walmart gas can would be nice too. I can't shake the feeling that somebody followed Jodi in another car on her trip. MM comes to mind. And why did she have the exact same murder weapons in her new rental car when she was arrested. Two knives and a gun. I've read that two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead. Did she think she needed to kill an accomplice? If not an accomplice to the murder, one that she confided in after the fact. I'm thinking MM could have been her target. It will be interesting to see if there is any more info regarding these weapons. They are her murder weapons of choice!

 

[rose222]

If I had a choice I would prefer to be shot until I take my last breath! Stabbing is so cruel and painful.

And JA acknowledges that using a knife is heinous. She actually says she would have shown 'mercy' and used a gun if she had wanted to kill him.

Well we know she did use both a gun and a knife. Let us use her words and call it 'heinous' Let's us use her words and say she did NOT show him any 'mercy' by stabbing him 28 times and cutting his throat. Let's use her words and send her to death row. Any bets she won't be begging for the death penalty post-conviction like she said on 48 hours? :furious: