Intresting Observation

[Charlie]

I also can not even imagine a parent letting the other child out of their presence in that type of situation and danger. They can't even make up their mind if they even checked on Burke immediately. I also think it's odd that John didn't call the police himself since he was reading the note. Looks like he would try to tell someone ahead of time about the threat to behead JonBenet if any contact with police happened. He just told Patsy to call the regular police on their home phone even though the note said that they might be monitored, but they got lawyers, friends, and public relations people almost immediately.

If we all place ourselves in the rams shoes, lets imagine they are innocent. You have just read the RN...well at least the 'first few lines' if your role playing Patsy...wouldnt your immediate fear be "how can we handle this without the police?" the obvious solution is sitting in the pit of your stomache "we have to call the police, we cant do this ourselves,this is our daughter!" so you call the cops with a deep fear the 'foreign faction' will find out and behead your baby daughter. Why oh why would u then invite another 5 additonal people over to your house unnecessarily?
1. They dont care if there daughter lives or dies from being beheaded!!
OR
2. They know that there is no threat of a foreign faction beheading thier daughter, because the rams all ready killed her hours earlier.

 

[Wuschel]

I can only speak of my own experience with any sort of authority. I was with and holding my dad when he died. It took a lot longer than expected and as soon as it was over, I couldn't get out of that hospital fast enough. All I knew was I wanted to get away........away where I wouldn't feel what I was feeling. Then I just shot down emotionally for quite awhile, total denial. Perhaps it has something to do with the fight or flight mechanism?

I adored and loved my father with all of my heart and he was a terrific man. I can't explain it.

BTW a RDI

Hey Linda,

I think this is a good example to show how a person's reaction after someone close to them dies has absolutely nothing to do with how guilty they are or how much they loved someone.

I believe you loved your father dearly. Wanting to break into a run after he died is something I can understand very well.

However, it was not my choice of reaction when my - equally beloved - grandmother died at the hospital. I wanted to sit with her forever, look at her, touch her hand and by doing that, come to terms with the fact that she is gone forever.

See how different reactions are? That is entirely human.

As for Mr. Ramsey, I can understand his reaction of arranging for the familiy to be flown out to Atlanta. After all, the crime happened in his own home, so he probably did not feel like his family was safe there anymore. Paired with the age old human instinct to run away when things get dangerous, it makes perfect sense to me.

Wuschel

 

[Nuisanceposter]

If we all place ourselves in the rams shoes, lets imagine they are innocent. You have just read the RN...well at least the 'first few lines' if your role playing Patsy...wouldnt your immediate fear be "how can we handle this without the police?" the obvious solution is sitting in the pit of your stomache "we have to call the police, we cant do this ourselves,this is our daughter!" so you call the cops with a deep fear the 'foreign faction' will find out and behead your baby daughter. Why oh why would u then invite another 5 additonal people over to your house unnecessarily?
1. They dont care if there daughter lives or dies from being beheaded!!
OR
2. They know that there is no threat of a foreign faction beheading thier daughter, because the rams all ready killed her hours earlier.

I couldn't agree more, and the fact that they didn't hesitate to call police, never mentioning that the RN says they'll behead their daughter if police are notified, tells me that they were completely unafraid that JonBenet was in danger of being beheaded because they knew she wasn't kidnapped at all but "safe" in their own house - dead in the basement. WHY in the name of God would you not only phone police but that many of your friends and have them all come over at the same time if there was even a remote chance that doing so would cause the people holding your daughter to cut off her head? That's more than just not thinking clearly - that's knowing she hasn't been kidnapped at all.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I couldn't agree more, and the fact that they didn't hesitate to call police, never mentioning that the RN says they'll behead their daughter if police are notified, tells me that they were completely unafraid that JonBenet was in danger of being beheaded because they knew she wasn't kidnapped at all but "safe" in their own house - dead in the basement. WHY in the name of God would you not only phone police but that many of your friends and have them all come over at the same time if there was even a remote chance that doing so would cause the people holding your daughter to cut off her head? That's more than just not thinking clearly - that's knowing she hasn't been kidnapped at all.

Are you saying that the R's actions that morning flies in the face of their own ransom note? That doesn't make any sense to me. Why would they write a note and then defy it?

 

[Nuisanceposter]

That's a very good question. Why would they defy their own note? Perhaps because they knew it was all a load of crap, and there was no threat of JB coming to any harm when she was already harmed beyond repair. There's no doubt in my mind that Patsy wrote that note - not only does it look like her handwriting (manuscript a and all) but it's her style of speech, right down to attache with an accent mark and use of hence.

They'd have to involve the police sooner or later, right? And they needed to contaminate the crime scene so it might not be as easy to trace it back to one of them. How better to do that than to stage a performance including all of their friends tromping around the house? "Let's do this all at once and get it over with - call the cops, the reverand, the Whites, the Fernies, the Stines...let's get them all here and milling about so we can pretend to be the distraught parents of a kidnapped child until it was time to 'find' the abductee, that'll make sure to confuse police and mess up any evidence."

Why on earth would they stage that tea party if there was any chance that the kidnappers were watching the house and were going to cut off their daughter's head if they notified anyone? Why on earth would they allow Burke to leave the safety of their presence if there was any possibility at all that there were kidnappers watching them who might decide to kidnap Burke as well? They knew the ransom note was bogus.

 

[UKGuy]

John Ramsey's stated reason for trying to leave Colorado and fly to Atlanta immediately after JonBenet's body was found, was the security of his family.

However, as pointed out many times, he contradicted this excuse when he ushered Burke past the cops and out of the house at 7:00 AM without police protection and had him driven to the White's house.

The more likely reason for trying to get out of Boulder as quickly as possible was to gain time to get their story straight and temporarily get out from under the jurisdiction of Colorado authorities.

I agree with what BlueCrab has written, its not only mainly factual, but underlines another inconsistency in the Ramsey's version of events.

Just to emphasise this aspect, I beleive, John Ramsey , made the flight arrangements without the first consulting Boulder Police Department officials?

Now I accept there is no standard response or procedure for handling a bereavement, each of us will respond in accordance with how we feel emotionally.

But even at such a time one has to normally engage with authority, if only to register the death. Other considerations are execution of probate, funeral scheduling, and any transfer of office etc.

Since this was patently a homicide, not consulting with Boulder Police Department over his departure suggests as BlueCrab indicates not only that John Ramsey possibly wished to be outwith the jurisdiction of Colorado state law, but that it may have been part of a prior timeline that had gone wrong, and for some reason he was in a hurry to complete some unknown series of steps?

That is did John Ramsey percieve or have knowledge of something that we are not aware of, or do not consider to be important, what else would hasten a person of his rank and wealth away from the scene of a homicide, one that so tragically involved his own daughter?

Whether you consider it a case of money talking or an orchestrated conspiracy that has assisted in the current outcome, and I assume the latter, then the planning involved in closing the case down, the subsequent management of the media, and the silence from those in positions of power suggest some form of communication with the Ramsey's early on the morning of the 26th.

This would have outlined a strategy and informal timeline which did not unfold as planned, why else would John Ramsey feel comfortable in making flight arrangements, when lesser mortals would be fully aware this would categorize them as potential fugitives fleeing interstate to avoid prosecution?

Prior to the discovery of JonBenet's body not only was there the consideration that the Federal Bureau of Investigation would exercise jurisdiction and investigative responsibilities pursuant to federal statutes addressing kidnapping under Title 18 of the United States Code, Sections 1201, 1204, and 1073.

But also that she would come under the jurisdiction of the 1982 Missing Children's Act which defines a missing child as any individual younger than eighteen years of age whose whereabouts is unknown to their legal custodian.

 

[Zman]

That's a very good question. Why would they defy their own note? Perhaps because they knew it was all a load of crap, and there was no threat of JB coming to any harm when she was already harmed beyond repair. There's no doubt in my mind that Patsy wrote that note - not only does it look like her handwriting (manuscript a and all) but it's her style of speech, right down to attache with an accent mark and use of hence.

They'd have to involve the police sooner or later, right? And they needed to contaminate the crime scene so it might not be as easy to trace it back to one of them. How better to do that than to stage a performance including all of their friends tromping around the house? "Let's do this all at once and get it over with - call the cops, the reverand, the Whites, the Fernies, the Stines...let's get them all here and milling about so we can pretend to be the distraught parents of a kidnapped child until it was time to 'find' the abductee, that'll make sure to confuse police and mess up any evidence."

Why on earth would they stage that tea party if there was any chance that the kidnappers were watching the house and were going to cut off their daughter's head if they notified anyone? Why on earth would they allow Burke to leave the safety of their presence if there was any possibility at all that there were kidnappers watching them who might decide to kidnap Burke as well? They knew the ransom note was bogus.

The R's could have never guessed the police would not find JBR right away. So contamination of evidence is not an issue unless JR finds the body right away. He could not risk any one else finding this body. He could not let her lay there for 5 hours if he wants to be sure to contaminate the scene.

I agree with holdontoyourhat. If the R's would have wrote that RN then they would have picked everything they wrote for a reason and would have followed their own instructions. Plus I've said it before and I'll say it again. I see no reason for PR to cross out the word "pickup" and replace it with "deliver" in a meaningless fake RN. I see no reason to call the police at 6 am when you've given yourself till 10 am. Also what does it matter what the RN says as far as what they will do to JBR. Let pretend the RN simply says:

We have your daughter.
Do not call police or we will get upset.
We will call you at 10.

Now do you feel "better" about calling the police now because there is no direct threat to JBR? I don't think so.

 

[Charlie]

The R's could have never guessed the police would not find JBR right away. So contamination of evidence is not an issue unless JR finds the body right away. He could not risk any one else finding this body. He could not let her lay there for 5 hours if he wants to be sure to contaminate the scene.

Firstly, what does time have to do with JR contaminating the crime scene? If JR had found her at 7am or found her at 1pm he would still have contaminated the crime scene, i dont quite follow what u mean by "So contamination of evidence is not an issue unless JR finds the body right away. He could not risk any one else finding this body. He could not let her lay there for 5 hours if he wants to be sure to contaminate the scene."

I agree with holdontoyourhat. If the R's would have wrote that RN then they would have picked everything they wrote for a reason and would have followed their own instructions. Plus I've said it before and I'll say it again. I see no reason for PR to cross out the word "pickup" and replace it with "deliver" in a meaningless fake RN. I see no reason to call the police at 6 am when you've given yourself till 10 am. Also what does it matter what the RN says as far as what they will do to JBR. Let pretend the RN simply says:

We have your daughter.
Do not call police or we will get upset.
We will call you at 10.

Now do you feel "better" about calling the police now because there is no direct threat to JBR? I don't think so.

Why do assume that if the ramseys did write the RN then they would obviously follow thier own instructions? Remembering the sole purpose of the RN was to deflect attention away from themselves by taking on the persona of a foreign faction. Logic steers us to the idea that it seems silly someone would go to the trouble of writting a rn that they didnt use to thier advantage, but if we look back it would seem the rams did use the rn for thier own advantage while still leaving enough to look like someone else authored the note.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Why do assume that if the ramseys did write the RN then they would obviously follow thier own instructions? Remembering the sole purpose of the RN was to deflect attention away from themselves by taking on the persona of a foreign faction. Logic steers us to the idea that it seems silly someone would go to the trouble of writting a rn that they didnt use to thier advantage, but if we look back it would seem the rams did use the rn for thier own advantage while still leaving enough to look like someone else authored the note.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, who lives in the house, is going to leave three pages of their own personal handwriting for FBI analysis at a capital murder scene. If you were the killer, would you do it? If you answered honestly, you'd say "not in a hundred years." I can't imagine any circumstances where someone living in the same house would decide its advantageous to leave handwriting behind.

 

[txsvicki]

I could go with that theory except it wasn't JR's idea to search the house. It was L.A.'s.

That seems sort of odd to me, too. The detective just told them to look through the house to see if anything were out of place. Arndt didn't necessarily tell John to look all through the basement. Maybe John thought that the LE would have found the body and didn't realize they would do such a bad job at the scene.

 

[Maikai]

That seems sort of odd to me, too. The detective just told them to look through the house to see if anything were out of place. Arndt didn't necessarily tell John to look all through the basement. Maybe John thought that the LE would have found the body and didn't realize they would do such a bad job at the scene.

JR explained why he went to the basement first. His and Patsy's bedroom was on the third floor. The second floor was the bedrooms. He went to the basement, since it was the one area that hadn't really been gone through thoroughly. He had earlier brought the open basement window and suitcase to Linda Arnd't attention.

 

[Charlie]

Nobody, and I mean nobody, who lives in the house, is going to leave three pages of their own personal handwriting for FBI analysis at a capital murder scene. If you were the killer, would you do it? If you answered honestly, you'd say "not in a hundred years." I can't imagine any circumstances where someone living in the same house would decide its advantageous to leave handwriting behind.

If course its not avantageous to leave handwritting behind thats a no brainer, someone wrote that rn for thier own purpose and therefore was advantageous to them in the crime, otherwise why would they have written it. The question zman raised was how much did the killer use the key points they wrote about in the rn to thier own advantage ie why not wait till 10am to call etc.

Your right nobody who lived in their own house would leave 3 pages of thier own handwritting, but then again what stupid intruder would do the same. The rams had to divert attention away from themselves, the RN had to be created for thier plan...well it was thier main plan. I would agree with you, how stupid of them!
Not all murderers are smart 100% of the time. Rememeber they just killed thier daughter, as much as they tried to think 50 steps ahead of le, they stuffed up. but some would argue they didnt, as they have remained 'free'.

Instead of analysing how stupid it is for somone who lives in the house to leave three pages of their own personal handwriting why not question why the rams invited 5 people over to their house with the imminent threat of the daughter being beheaded?

 

[Dee Wilson]

I agree that it would be really, really dumb to do that, but when someone is in crisis mode they aren't thinking straight. They are desperate.

This is not an exact analogy, but I had a student once sneak into my class and copy the answers for a quiz from my teacher's manual. He even copied that answer to the last question, which was "Answers will Vary." He was stressed and wasn't thinking. It wasn't that he was dumb. He just needed to copy the answers fast.

I don't know who wrote the note, but often times people underestimate forensics. And we all know how often police and crime labs mess up. Maybe Patsy was playing the odds. If she wrote it, then she won the gamble because I thought no one will say 100% that she wrote it.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, who lives in the house, is going to leave three pages of their own personal handwriting for FBI analysis at a capital murder scene. If you were the killer, would you do it? If you answered honestly, you'd say "not in a hundred years." I can't imagine any circumstances where someone living in the same house would decide its advantageous to leave handwriting behind.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I agree that it would be really, really dumb to do that, but when someone is in crisis mode they aren't thinking straight. They are desperate.

This is not an exact analogy, but I had a student once sneak into my class and copy the answers for a quiz from my teacher's manual. He even copied that answer to the last question, which was "Answers will Vary." He was stressed and wasn't thinking. It wasn't that he was dumb. He just needed to copy the answers fast.

I don't know who wrote the note, but often times people underestimate forensics. And we all know how often police and crime labs mess up. Maybe Patsy was playing the odds. If she wrote it, then she won the gamble because I thought no one will say 100% that she wrote it.

The length of the RN, the silly corrections found in the RN, and the familiar tone near the end would seem to contradict the desparate aspect.

Leaving handwriting behind isn't very risky if you live in a foreign country and normally write in another language. RDI will skip over this one right away, preferring the idea that someone who lives in the house believed they could somehow fool the FBI with three pages of handwriting.

In RDI, if the purpose of the RN is to confuse police by 'taking on the persona of a foreign faction,' why take the risk of leaving handwriting? Why not fake a phone call or a personal meeting?

 

[Charlie]

The length of the RN, the silly corrections found in the RN, and the familiar tone near the end would seem to contradict the desparate aspect.

Leaving handwriting behind isn't very risky if you live in a foreign country and normally write in another language. RDI will skip over this one right away, preferring the idea that someone who lives in the house believed they could somehow fool the FBI with three pages of handwriting.

In RDI, if the purpose of the RN is to confuse police by 'taking on the persona of a foreign faction,' why take the risk of leaving handwriting? Why not fake a phone call or a personal meeting?

What do u define as desperate? Your interpretation might be different from the person sitting next to you, and certainly when they have just killed a child they might not possibly follow the text-book scenario of "write rn, keep it short, and then get the hell outta there". When i take exams and get desperate i ramble...you may act differently and so might the rams, its all up to individual interpretation when we look at the crime scene. We all try to understand the crime scene by naturally relating the behaviour of those involved to ourselves, but that method can be dangerous as we get caught into thinking "well I wouldn't have done that, therefore why would the Ramsey’s have?" or for that matter an intruder.

Once again there is no guidelines on how to commit the perfect crime, prisons a full of people who didn’t succeed, why do u find it so astonishing that the perp took the chance of writing a rn in their own handwriting...remember if Patsy did write the RN lets give her some credit didn’t she use her left hand? So Patsy faced the same problem as you...

 

[Nuisanceposter]

They had all night to write that letter. I assume that's part of why it was so long and wordy. I further assume it's because the author was very inexperienced at writing ransom notes. Most of the time, kidnappers compose brief and succinct notes on their own time with their own materials and bring them with them. The briefer, the better, since it's concrete evidence that can be linked back to the perp and be used to identify him/her.

Why are there false starts? Because the author (imo Patsy) didn't know what she was doing, and had to try a couple of times to get what she thought sounded right. Is a foreign faction that wants to kidnap a child really going to break in on Christmas night and sit around composing drafts of a ransom note, risking being caught the entire time? Are they really going to go to all of the trouble of writing that note only not even take the child with them? If they want a ransom, they aren't going to get it without the child, dead or not.

I don't believe the author of the note was foreign. There are too many American colloquialisms and references for that to be the case. Suspect to me is the way the author started out using misspellings and then abandoned that idea and instead used words like hence and attache, complete with correct usage of accent mark, and spelled correctly. I absolutely think the author thought she could fool everyone with her work, and to this day, has done a pretty good job.

Again, I think inexperience has led the author to compose this lengthy note and think that LE will be fooled enough to believe a foreign faction pulled off this insane crime. What foreign faction? Why John Ramsey? Why JonBenet and not Burke? Why leave a note if she's not been taken, and why not take her to collect the ransom they seem to desire? I believe it's because the Rams felt it was too risky to try to take the dead child out of the house to make the kidnapping look real, so they constructed a crime scene complete with bogus ransom note to explain their daughter's accidental death. I think a phone call or meeting would have been much more difficult to pull off.

 

[Eagle1]

What if all, or nearly all, of the friends were there all night, and all helped to concoct the note in their desperation because some game they'd maybe been playing on the 23rd, causing a 911 call, finally went really too far?

Not saying I believe that, just might give someone some new idea.

I don't think Patsy would even play dumb to that extent. She would have been in great shock and maybe no longer knew what was going on.

Disclaimer: Notice I always say "probably" or "what if", have no theory, so please don't anyone get upset and demand links as if I were stating fact.

 

[JBRMod2]

What if all, or nearly all, of the friends were there all night, and all helped to concoct the note in their desperation because some game they'd maybe been playing on the 23rd, causing a 911 call, finally went really too far?

Not saying I believe that, just might give someone some new idea.

I don't think Patsy would even play dumb to that extent. She would have been in great shock and maybe no longer knew what was going on.

Disclaimer: Notice I always say "probably" or "what if", have no theory, so please don't anyone get upset and demand links as if I were stating fact.

I have to intervene here. There is a certain expectation for members to support their posts with valid reasoning if not actual sources. Members get justifiably upset with persistent speculation which is unsupported and sometimes even unrelated. These posts serve little purpose other than to disrupt rational discussion.

There are plenty of fantasy forums on the Internet. WS is not one of them.

 

[why_nutt]

JR explained why he went to the basement first. His and Patsy's bedroom was on the third floor. The second floor was the bedrooms. He went to the basement, since it was the one area that hadn't really been gone through thoroughly. He had earlier brought the open basement window and suitcase to Linda Arnd't attention.

There is not enough volume to laugh out loud. "Thoroughly"? The basement was "the one area that hadn't really been gone through thoroughly"? Hmm. I can think of many places John avoided searching on the second floor. We can start with Burke's room. All John did was stand in the doorway at the south end of the room. Did John go into the room and check Burke's closets? No, he did not. Did he look under Burke's beds, both of them? No, he did not. Did John check the bathroom in the hallway leading away from Burke's bedroom? No, he did not. Did John check the second floor playroom? No, he did not. Did John check the second floor bedroom formerly belonging to Melinda, and its closets? No, he did not. Did John check JonBenet's bathroom or her closets? No, he did not.

Did John Ramsey check John Andrew's bedroom, where there was to be found a bag of rope he would subsequently exclaim was a complete mystery to him, probably from an intruder, and which was right out in the open for him to point out to police at that very moment? No, he did not. Why, one might almost think that John knew already, at one o'clock in the afternoon on December 26th, that whatever evidence his search would yield, the least important evidence would be found on the second floor. An innocent man would not have known that. A guilty man, on the other hand, would have reason to set the intruder theory in motion as quickly as he could, while getting his daughter's rotting corpse into the frozen hands of morgue attendants as quickly as he could without causing undue suspicion due to his eagerness.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

There is not enough volume to laugh out loud. "Thoroughly"? The basement was "the one area that hadn't really been gone through thoroughly"? Hmm. I can think of many places John avoided searching on the second floor. We can start with Burke's room. All John did was stand in the doorway at the south end of the room. Did John go into the room and check Burke's closets? No, he did not. Did he look under Burke's beds, both of them? No, he did not. Did John check the bathroom in the hallway leading away from Burke's bedroom? No, he did not. Did John check the second floor playroom? No, he did not. Did John check the second floor bedroom formerly belonging to Melinda, and its closets? No, he did not. Did John check JonBenet's bathroom or her closets? No, he did not.

Did John Ramsey check John Andrew's bedroom, where there was to be found a bag of rope he would subsequently exclaim was a complete mystery to him, probably from an intruder, and which was right out in the open for him to point out to police at that very moment? No, he did not. Why, one might almost think that John knew already, at one o'clock in the afternoon on December 26th, that whatever evidence his search would yield, the least important evidence would be found on the second floor. An innocent man would not have known that. A guilty man, on the other hand, would have reason to set the intruder theory in motion as quickly as he could, while getting his daughter's rotting corpse into the frozen hands of morgue attendants as quickly as he could without causing undue suspicion due to his eagerness.

JR's a better detective, thats all. What you're calling suspicious is really just JR starting with the most likely criminal entry.