Intruder theories only. No posts from rdi members allowed

[Landonsmom02]

Because that had been digested by the stomach at that point and starting to run through the digestive tract but The crab was already fecal matter in the large intestine..

I am basically thinking out loud here. Studying the way things digest and time and such..

Why is so so hard to believe she ate pineapple after coming home that night? It's science as another poster pointed out. I'm not disputing what the ME found. He has alot more experience than alot of us here. IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Why is so so hard to believe she ate pineapple after coming home that night? It's science as another poster pointed out. I'm not disputing what the ME found. He has alot more experience than alot of us here. IMO

Firstly, it has not been conclusively identified as pineapple.
It is not science if it is a matter of opinion if it was pineapple or not. He did not say it WAS pineapple.. But it was like pineapple..

 

[Landonsmom02]

Firstly, it has not been conclusively identified as pineapple.
It is not science if it is a matter of opinion if it was pineapple or not. He did not say it WAS pineapple.. But it was like pineapple..

With all do respect, if this is what IDI have come to then........:banghead:

 

[Anyhoo]

No. Because even if she touched it at some point,Why would it be in the body bag? She was asleep when they got home and that was that. So she would not have touched it that night. So it stands to reason that whoever touched that bag left not only the material in her bed, But also enough so that it was also found in the body bag.

Firstly, it has not been conclusively identified as pineapple.
It is not science if it is a matter of opinion if it was pineapple or not. He did not say it WAS pineapple.. But it was like pineapple..

Scarlett, if it was proven to you to be the same pineapple as in the pineapple bowl, as most people believe, would that indicate to you that the Ramsey's lied when they said JB was asleep when she was brought home from the White's party and stayed asleep until shortly before her murder? If not, how would you explain this in discrepancy in the parent's testimony?

 

[TroyinTX]

Was it ever determined who was eating the pineapple found in the bowl on the counter? Didn't Patsy say she had no idea how it got there? Some IDI theorists (not in this thread I do not think) have said that the intruder could have fed it to her.

 

[Mama2JML]

From the AR:
"The stomach contains a small amount (8-10 cc) of viscous to green to tan colored thick mucous material without particulate matter identified."
...
"The proximal portion of the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple."

From an online textbook @ http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/basics/transit.html:

"50% of stomach contents emptied --------- 2.5 to 3 hours
Total emptying of the stomach --------- 4 to 5 hours"
...
"Remember that these are estimates of average transit times, and there is a great deal of variability among individuals and within the same person at different times and after different meals."
(Bowen, 2006)

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

With all do respect, if this is what IDI have come to then........:banghead:

My method on looking at any crime is to take the case piece by piece making sure that what I am considering is actual true and real evidence. I am not saying it is not pineapple. What I am saying is that the the medical examiner said it was like pineapple but did not say it was indeed pineapple.

So I am looking for confirmation of that source. I also want to know what the Whites served that night to see what possibly could have appeared to be pineapple of if they had anything like a fruit cake, cakes, candies that could have had pineapple. I know that a lot of times there is dried fruit around at parties.. So could she have eaten that there???

I am looking for answers and making sure what I look at is actual evidence not just folklore or rumor.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Scarlett, if it was proven to you to be the same pineapple as in the pineapple bowl, as most people believe, would that indicate to you that the Ramsey's lied when they said JB was asleep when she was brought home from the White's party and stayed asleep until shortly before her murder? If not, how would you explain this in discrepancy in the parent's testimony?

I am not sure that you could identify pineapple specifically apart from one another so I am not even considering that.

I don't believe they lied. IT does them nothing good to lie. It does not help them, And it does not hurt them for her to have eaten it with them. I just don't believe it..

If she ate it after coming home, With that huge spoon, It could have meant she went down for a drink or something,saw the pineapple and ate it like that.

HOWEVER I don't think her fingerprints were found on any of that stuff.

I am not sure it was pineapple yet..

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

From the AR:
"The stomach contains a small amount (8-10 cc) of viscous to green to tan colored thick mucous material without particulate matter identified."
...
"The proximal portion of the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple."

From an online textbook @ http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/basics/transit.html:

"50% of stomach contents emptied --------- 2.5 to 3 hours
Total emptying of the stomach --------- 4 to 5 hours"
...
"Remember that these are estimates of average transit times, and there is a great deal of variability among individuals and within the same person at different times and after different meals."
(Bowen, 2006)

That is what is eating at me.. Even if it digests it takes time to leave the stomach and then enter the small intestines... So in that case, It would have been something she consumed much earlier or at the whites...

Thanks for that.

 

[wonderllama]

I don't believe they lied. IT does them nothing good to lie. It does not help them, And it does not hurt them for her to have eaten it with them. I just don't believe it..

Except that the best defence is to deny everything.

If someone thinks that something can be used against them, deny deny deny.

Especially because there is a strong chance someone will say "what good does it do me to lie about it?".

 

[wonderllama]

I also have issues with non-medical people attempting to diagnose/assess medical issues VIA the internet.

How many times have people decided that they have some horrible disease because they looked their symptoms up online.

This non-believing of experts I find somewhat offensive.
It has become the norm in society to poo-poo someone with an actual skill set.

I'm not talking a Doctor Nick Riviera type skill set, I'm talking ACTUAL experts.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Except that the best defence is to deny everything.

If someone thinks that something can be used against them, deny deny deny.

Especially because there is a strong chance someone will say "what good does it do me to lie about it?".

You cannot deny what can be proven. This is not about denying, this is lets start with was it even pineapple? And then when was it consumed if it has been emptied into the small intestines at that point..

It seems that most people believe she died before 1 am considering rigor mortis, so if that is true, She and her stomach was basically empty and the material was in the small intestine, That would mean she could have eaten it up to 5 hours before her death.

 

[wonderllama]

You cannot deny what can be proven. This is not about denying, this is lets start with was it even pineapple? And then when was it consumed if it has been emptied into the small intestines at that point..

It seems that most people believe she died before 1 am considering rigor mortis, so if that is true, She and her stomach was basically empty and the material was in the small intestine, That would mean she could have eaten it up to 5 hours before her death.

Where did you get 5 hours from?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I also have issues with non-medical people attempting to diagnose/assess medical issues VIA the internet.

How many times have people decided that they have some horrible disease because they looked their symptoms up online.

This non-believing of experts I find somewhat offensive.
It has become the norm in society to poo-poo someone with an actual skill set.

I'm not talking a Doctor Nick Riviera type skill set, I'm talking ACTUAL experts.

I think everyone should be questioned. I don't take anyone for granted and always research myself. This is not a medical disease this is the processes of the body..

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

From the AR:
"The stomach contains a small amount (8-10 cc) of viscous to green to tan colored thick mucous material without particulate matter identified."
...
"The proximal portion of the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple."

From an online textbook @ http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/basics/transit.html:

"50% of stomach contents emptied --------- 2.5 to 3 hours
Total emptying of the stomach --------- 4 to 5 hours"
...
"Remember that these are estimates of average transit times, and there is a great deal of variability among individuals and within the same person at different times and after different meals."
(Bowen, 2006)

From here. Real medical information about how the body works..

It could have been up to 5 hours for her stomach to empty. It was in her small intestine.. not her stomach.

 

[wonderllama]

From here. Real medical information about how the body works..

It could have been up to 5 hours for her stomach to empty. It was in her small intestine.. not her stomach.

So the fact that the Medical Examiner, who one would suspect didn't know anything about the house or what was present in the house, described the material and said it might be pineapple...of all the foods in the world, he says it might be what is sitting in a bowl in their kitchen - not at the White's house, but in their own kitchen, and add that we know the rough digestion time for pineapple, which one assumes (look it up perhaps) may take less time to get through the system in a petite 6 year old than an adult (one assumes those digestion times are for an adult no?), all that doesn't make you say - "Wow, that's pretty impressive"?

Not even a little bit impressed?

 

[txsvicki]

JonBenet must have hardly ate anything that day. It might take a full meal up to 5 hours to totally clear the stomach, but surely not one morsel of fruit.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

So the fact that the Medical Examiner, who one would suspect didn't know anything about the house or what was present in the house, described the material and said it might be pineapple...of all the foods in the world, he says it might be what is sitting in a bowl in their kitchen - not at the White's house, but in their own kitchen, and add that we know the rough digestion time for pineapple, which one assumes (look it up perhaps) may take less time to get through the system in a petite 6 year old than an adult (one assumes those digestion times are for an adult no?), all that doesn't make you say - "Wow, that's pretty impressive"?

Not even a little bit impressed?

Im just saying that he did not say for sure it was pineapple. For all I know he saw it sitting on the table ans surmised it..

There is nothing that says it WAS pineapple. And if it was, and where it was does not go with her basic time of death if she ate it when she got home that night.

 

[wonderllama]

He didn't say it was definitely pineapple, he said it might be though.
But he also didn't mention that it MIGHT have been anything else, just pineapple.

You seem set on the time line.
They left the White's at 8:30 and dropped by some other places on the way etc. They said they didn't stay, just just dropped off some gifts.
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-jonbenet-timeline.htm

8:30pm.

We have established that pineapple takes, what did it say, 2.25hrs to leave the stomach (of an adult)? Which this had, it was in the small intestine, but still in a condition that allowed the ME to say it might be pineapple.

Not warm liquid goo phase, still identifiable enough for an expert to suggest it might have been pineapple. Claimed to have been eaten an hour and a half - two hours before she died.

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682517/The Pineapple Evidence


So let's regroup.
It looks like pineapple.
It hasn't digested to the extent that an expert can suggest it is pineapple.
The digestion from the experts suggest it was eaten about 2 hours before she died.
No pineapple was served at the White's place.
There was pineapple, not in the fridge of the Ramsey's house, but on the actual BREAKFAST Table...with a spoon in it.

Keeping in mind, JonBenet was female, females digest faster than males.
JonBenet was 6, there is less distance for food to travel.

Nothing? Anyone?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

He didn't say it was definitely pineapple, he said it might be though.
But he also didn't mention that it MIGHT have been anything else, just pineapple.

You seem set on the time line.
They left the White's at 8:30 and dropped by some other places on the way etc. They said they didn't stay, just just dropped off some gifts.
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-jonbenet-timeline.htm

8:30pm.

We have established that pineapple takes, what did it say, 2.25hrs to leave the stomach (of an adult)? Which this had, it was in the small intestine, but still in a condition that allowed the ME to say it might be pineapple.

Not warm liquid goo phase, still identifiable enough for an expert to suggest it might have been pineapple. Claimed to have been eaten an hour and a half - two hours before she died.

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682517/The Pineapple Evidence


So let's regroup.
It looks like pineapple.
It hasn't digested to the extent that an expert can suggest it is pineapple.
The digestion from the experts suggest it was eaten about 2 hours before she died.
No pineapple was served at the White's place.
There was pineapple, not in the fridge of the Ramsey's house, but on the actual BREAKFAST Table...with a spoon in it.

Keeping in mind, JonBenet was female, females digest faster than males.
JonBenet was 6, there is less distance for food to travel.

Nothing? Anyone?

I still have no proof it was definitely pineapple. I don't know that the whites had nothing with pineapple in it. I see no proof of that yet. Still looking.

I see nothing in what you said that makes me still not have the questions I have.

I need proof. I don't see proof.