Intruder theories only. No posts from rdi members allowed

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  • #121
Really? I see a child that was sexualized so much! She had bleached blonde hair, bleached teeth, false eyelashes, way too much makeup and lipstick, wore outlandish adult-like costumes, even had a provocative "adult-like", come-hither closeup photographs. Who does that and why? What's the rush in having your little girl turn into a "flirty" sexpot when she has plenty of time to learn on her own how to garner attention based on her looks---and in due time. She was made to put on a show....one that was bent on grabbing the attention of adults.
And inadvertantly and of no fault of her own (of course)....she did. Fatal.

I have participated in numerous beauty pageants as a young adult. There's a lot that goes on with it. I enjoyed the scholarship money. I would *never* get my child involved with that. And I would *never* create a mini-adult out of a little girl. That is shameful.

It has always hit me as so wrong when I saw JBR's pics. It struck me as waving a red flag at a raging bull (pedophiles). Her beauty pageant pics are absolutley haunting. Chilling, really.

The pageant thing is weird I will give you that but I don't see it at all as sexualizing her. That whole scene is weird to me and not something I would want my child in but look what a big business it is.

Patsy loved that child. It is obvious.
 
  • #122
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-september97-intruder.htm

"In September 1997, an intruder tried to molest a 12-year-old girl in Boulder as she slept inside her own home. The intruder snuck in a back door before the family set the burglar alarm that night. He hid in the basement for hours, until 3:00 a.m. when he crept upstairs and entered the girl's second-floor bedroom. He spoke the girl's name, although she didn't recognize him.

He must have been stalking her, and he was willing to take great risks inside her own home. He actually got in bed with her. Luckily, her mother woke up, walked down the hall and maced him. He fled out a window and jumped to the ground. He hasn't been caught. This 1997 home invasion was never reported in the newspaper, but high-risk home invasions do happen.

Although there are some similarities to the intruder theory in the Ramsey case, the modus operandi of this 1997 Boulder intruder is different than the murder of JonBenet. In the 1997 case, there was no stun gun, no duct tape, no cord and no attempt to take her from her bedroom. The intruder threatened to bash her head if she screamed. Her mother was alerted by some rustling sounds.

The m.o. of the Boulder police, however, was similar to the Ramsey case. Their investigation was indifferent. The family had to beg detectives to investigate more thoroughly. This case may have nothing to do with the Ramsey case, but it does show that an intruder/molester can go so far as to hide for hours inside a home and try to molest a girl even with her parents in the house. The intruder in this 1997 case was just as daring and determined as an intruder would have had to be in the Ramsey case."

This is only 8 months after the death of JBR. He was never caught.
 
  • #123
DNA from rock, cigarette helps solve 1995 Utah murder

So if a case from 1995 can be solved by using "touch DNA" why can't it be used in this case?

Bonner said Joseph Michael Simpson, who was arrested Tuesday, was "never on our radar" until earlier this year, when a lab extracted "touch DNA" from the granite rocks used to crush the teen's skull.

Salt Lake City-based Sorenson Forensics found Simpson's full DNA on a spot where he had touched one of the granite rocks. The process of collecting it, using a vacuum-assisted instrument, took a full day.
It sure leaves the possibility of an intruder open to me.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/21/dna-from-rock-cigarette-helps-solve-15-murder/
 
  • #124
Really? I see a child that was sexualized so much! She had bleached blonde hair, bleached teeth, false eyelashes, way too much makeup and lipstick, wore outlandish adult-like costumes, even had a provocative "adult-like", come-hither closeup photographs. Who does that and why? What's the rush in having your little girl turn into a "flirty" sexpot when she has plenty of time to learn on her own how to garner attention based on her looks---and in due time. She was made to put on a show....one that was bent on grabbing the attention of adults.
And inadvertantly and of no fault of her own (of course)....she did. Fatal.

I have participated in numerous beauty pageants as a young adult. There's a lot that goes on with it. I enjoyed the scholarship money. I would *never* get my child involved with that. And I would *never* create a mini-adult out of a little girl. That is shameful.

It has always hit me as so wrong when I saw JBR's pics. It struck me as waving a red flag at a raging bull (pedophiles). Her beauty pageant pics are absolutley haunting. Chilling, really.


While I'm not sure what this has to do with non-RDI theories...

I have to agree, in general. Personally, I would never do this to my child.

But countless women around the world DO. Thousands of little girls every weekend are parading around in those costumes, pouting and primping in those weird outfits.. ugh.

But did the pageant activities have anything to do with JB's death?
 
  • #125
The other threads are for all that same blame the parents and family stuff.. I am looking for different opinions based on theories other than the popularly accepted one.

I think everyone needs a voice.

i am not as informed on this case as i should be, im working on reading through the forums to catch up. i do remember watching a show once about someone who was thought to be a suspect who ended up killing himself by shooting himself in the head. was he found to be cleared?
 
  • #126
This case perplexes me. As a rule I am IDI by default. I see nothing that points to the R's with complete clarity and can not be explained rationally.
So that leads me to believe there must have been someone else along with the unknown TDNA that was found on JBR.
The possibility until the sources are found, that there could be someone out there that did this stays with me. I need to get that answer..

I don't believe the R's were involved in JBR's death. Not at this point.

I know that the majority of this forum is dedicated to mainly RDI theories. I thought maybe we could discuss other theories and see what the consensus is on other theories.


ScarlettScarpetta,

I don't always agree with your opinion but i respect the heck out of you and i love reading your posts. I believe you are a strong asset to the websleuths community. Thank you for starting this thread and keeping the conversation going, it's really important that dialogue continues in this case
 
  • #127
ScarlettScarpetta,

I don't always agree with your opinion but i respect the heck out of you and i love reading your posts. I believe you are a strong asset to the websleuths community. Thank you for starting this thread and keeping the conversation going, it's really important that dialogue continues in this case

Thank you! I appreciate that so much. This case really sits with me. I've followed it since the news broke way back then.
I think everyone needs a voice.
I have more info about that guy you are talking about and will post it in a little bit. After some coffee. ;)
 
  • #128
I sat down just now to type out one of my (several) IDI theories - and developed a sudden, cracking migraine. LOL. Probably in anticipation. Anyway, here it is in truncated form, as my head hurts:

IF an intruder (and in this particular theory I do NOT mean "stranger", please pay attention to this so I don't have to c&p my own comments at you) did indeed enter the Ramsey home, the way they went about things including leaving the note on the back stairs suggests to me that they knew the layout of the house and the general habits of the family.

That they knew the Ramseys pretty well (which is not to say the Ramseys knew the intruder to the same degree) is evidenced in the ridiculous note, which obviously was never intended as an actual ransom note. It is rambling and primarily both vindictive and challenging toward John Ramsey, and demonstrates that if the killer was not personally known to the family, then he/she was probably adept at stalking/rummaging through garbage/etc, and that this was not an unplanned crime.

The lack of DNA evidence suggests the killer knew not to leave any - which suggests again a planned crime, and one committed by somebody familiar to some degree with police procedure. It wasn't a rushed, careless crime, but one carefully planned. Careless, unprepared killers leave gobs of DNA and hairs and stuff all over the place - this one did not.

It was winter. Hats and gloves, zip-up coats. No need for ninja-wear - ordinary outdoor gear, on a night when people are usually out and about for Christmas visits, would do. Perhaps the hat was edged in beaver fur:

http://images.wikia.com/fanon/image...ats-canada-goose-classique-beaver-fur-hat.jpg

But ah, the note looks SO sloppy. Of all the evidence, the note is the most puzzling to me. Somebody smart enough to not leave skin cells all over the crime scene, the garrotte cord and the body like tell-tale confetti was then suddenly so thick as to leave that stupid note?.... It has never really made sense to me, unless I've thought of the note as a prime bit of crime scene manipulation.

That JonBenet probably suffered the head injury first, suggests that the killer wasn't overly interested in JonBenet's responses to the rest of whatever was done to her. She was wacked on the head first, hard enough to crack bone, certainly hard enough to knock her out - and the rest was done later.

Added to this, JonBenet was probably penetrated vaginally by either/both a paintbrush handle and a gloved finger and NOT a penis, and this, as well as the lack of semen and skin cells and such, suggests to me, in the context of this theory, that the killer may not have entered the home with the singular goal of molesting a child.

Given that JonBenet might have been garotted anywhere up to an hour after her head trauma, it stands to reason that the killer, possibly with a bound and unconscious child stashed in the wine cellar, had plenty of time to wander about writing notes and moving things about.

While I am a great proponent of the fact that there's always an exception to every rule, and nowhere moreso than in the realm of human behaviour, all this seems to me highly untypical behaviour of the average home invasion pedophile.

And while the note in pointing toward "a small foreign faction" actually does the opposite, it actually does a great job of making clear that the crime is all about John Ramsey. In light of the points above, I am pondering the idea that if somebody wanted to seriously hurt and disgrace and degrade John, without confronting him directly, and without giving away who they were, precisely, how better to do so than invade his home at Christmas, murder his tiny daughter, stage her death in such a horrifying way, and leave a note which in subtext totally telescopes John as the focus of the crime?

The note was (quite obviously) not a ransom note - it was a rant. It appears angry, mocking, an arrow pointing squarely at John.

And the rest of the staging may have been sheer diversion - the killer had made thier point, achieved their goal, struck at the heart of John Ramsey and his comfortable life, and didn't need this to be recognised by anyone but themselves. Though, thanks to the note, there'd be plenty of room for John to reflect on the idea that this was all -his- fault...

I need to go take something for this headache. Wish I could elucidate more right now but owel. Maybe tomorrow. But that's IDI Theory 1 in a nutshell, have at it - just please be nice about it, I'm not your enemy, try not to be snarky, remember we're all here for the sake of a child and not to snipe at each other or win points.

I'm more interested by far in physical evidence that might challenge (or hey, even support!) this theory than yet another pile of 'woulda's'.
 
  • #129
I sat down just now to type out one of my (several) IDI theories - and developed a sudden, cracking migraine. LOL. Probably in anticipation. Anyway, here it is in truncated form, as my head hurts:

IF an intruder (and in this particular theory I do NOT mean "stranger", please pay attention to this so I don't have to c&p my own comments at you) did indeed enter the Ramsey home, the way they went about things including leaving the note on the back stairs suggests to me that they knew the layout of the house and the general habits of the family.

That they knew the Ramseys pretty well (which is not to say the Ramseys knew the intruder to the same degree) is evidenced in the ridiculous note, which obviously was never intended as an actual ransom note. It is rambling and primarily both vindictive and challenging toward John Ramsey, and demonstrates that if the killer was not personally known to the family, then he/she was probably adept at stalking/rummaging through garbage/etc, and that this was not an unplanned crime.

The lack of DNA evidence suggests the killer knew not to leave any - which suggests again a planned crime, and one committed by somebody familiar to some degree with police procedure. It wasn't a rushed, careless crime, but one carefully planned. Careless, unprepared killers leave gobs of DNA and hairs and stuff all over the place - this one did not.

It was winter. Hats and gloves, zip-up coats. No need for ninja-wear - ordinary outdoor gear, on a night when people are usually out and about for Christmas visits, would do. Perhaps the hat was edged in beaver fur:

http://images.wikia.com/fanon/image...ats-canada-goose-classique-beaver-fur-hat.jpg

But ah, the note looks SO sloppy. Of all the evidence, the note is the most puzzling to me. Somebody smart enough to not leave skin cells all over the crime scene, the garrotte cord and the body like tell-tale confetti was then suddenly so thick as to leave that stupid note?.... It has never really made sense to me, unless I've thought of the note as a prime bit of crime scene manipulation.

That JonBenet probably suffered the head injury first, suggests that the killer wasn't overly interested in JonBenet's responses to the rest of whatever was done to her. She was wacked on the head first, hard enough to crack bone, certainly hard enough to knock her out - and the rest was done later.

Added to this, JonBenet was probably penetrated vaginally by either/both a paintbrush handle and a gloved finger and NOT a penis, and this, as well as the lack of semen and skin cells and such, suggests to me, in the context of this theory, that the killer may not have entered the home with the singular goal of molesting a child.

Given that JonBenet might have been garotted anywhere up to an hour after her head trauma, it stands to reason that the killer, possibly with a bound and unconscious child stashed in the wine cellar, had plenty of time to wander about writing notes and moving things about.

While I am a great proponent of the fact that there's always an exception to every rule, and nowhere moreso than in the realm of human behaviour, all this seems to me highly untypical behaviour of the average home invasion pedophile.

And while the note in pointing toward "a small foreign faction" actually does the opposite, it actually does a great job of making clear that the crime is all about John Ramsey. In light of the points above, I am pondering the idea that if somebody wanted to seriously hurt and disgrace and degrade John, without confronting him directly, and without giving away who they were, precisely, how better to do so than invade his home at Christmas, murder his tiny daughter, stage her death in such a horrifying way, and leave a note which in subtext totally telescopes John as the focus of the crime?

The note was (quite obviously) not a ransom note - it was a rant. It appears angry, mocking, an arrow pointing squarely at John.

And the rest of the staging may have been sheer diversion - the killer had made thier point, achieved their goal, struck at the heart of John Ramsey and his comfortable life, and didn't need this to be recognised by anyone but themselves. Though, thanks to the note, there'd be plenty of room for John to reflect on the idea that this was all -his- fault...

I need to go take something for this headache. Wish I could elucidate more right now but owel. Maybe tomorrow. But that's IDI Theory 1 in a nutshell, have at it - just please be nice about it, I'm not your enemy, try not to be snarky, remember we're all here for the sake of a child and not to snipe at each other or win points.

I'm more interested by far in physical evidence that might challenge (or hey, even support!) this theory than yet another pile of 'woulda's'.

That's a well thought out theory. This is the safe thread. Not an Rdi thread. You posted exactly in the right place. I'm going to re read this after I get done doing so work. Id love to discuss it further.
 
  • #130
SS, I really do not mind people challenging this theory. It's a bit silly to have an IDI thread and not have people debating the ideas in it. Being challenged is what theories are for.

It would be nice not to be openly sneered at, however. ;)
 
  • #131
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-september97-intruder.htm

"In September 1997, an intruder tried to molest a 12-year-old girl in Boulder as she slept inside her own home. The intruder snuck in a back door before the family set the burglar alarm that night. He hid in the basement for hours, until 3:00 a.m. when he crept upstairs and entered the girl's second-floor bedroom. He spoke the girl's name, although she didn't recognize him.

He must have been stalking her, and he was willing to take great risks inside her own home. He actually got in bed with her. Luckily, her mother woke up, walked down the hall and maced him. He fled out a window and jumped to the ground. He hasn't been caught. This 1997 home invasion was never reported in the newspaper, but high-risk home invasions do happen.

Although there are some similarities to the intruder theory in the Ramsey case, the modus operandi of this 1997 Boulder intruder is different than the murder of JonBenet. In the 1997 case, there was no stun gun, no duct tape, no cord and no attempt to take her from her bedroom. The intruder threatened to bash her head if she screamed. Her mother was alerted by some rustling sounds.

The m.o. of the Boulder police, however, was similar to the Ramsey case. Their investigation was indifferent. The family had to beg detectives to investigate more thoroughly. This case may have nothing to do with the Ramsey case, but it does show that an intruder/molester can go so far as to hide for hours inside a home and try to molest a girl even with her parents in the house. The intruder in this 1997 case was just as daring and determined as an intruder would have had to be in the Ramsey case."

This is only 8 months after the death of JBR. He was never caught.

He was the extramarital boyfriend of the mother. She admitted as much to police.

Had nothing to do with the Ramsey case.
 
  • #132
The pageant thing is weird I will give you that but I don't see it at all as sexualizing her. That whole scene is weird to me and not something I would want my child in but look what a big business it is.

Patsy loved that child. It is obvious.

IMO Patsy was a narcissist obsessed with presenting as picture perfect.

Narcissists do not view their children as individuals with their own thoughts, feelings and opinions but rather extensions of themselves.

Patsy was far from the picture perfect image she projected. She was messy. She couldn't even remember when she last bathed JonBenet. She allowed anyone within ear shot to respond to her daughters calls from the bathroom that she needed wiping. She was detached from both of her children and when JonBenet started voicing her own opinions Patsy struggled with that.

So when you say she loved that child, I do not believe she loved her in a healthy way.... Instead she loved her like only a narcissist does.
 
  • #133
This is the IDI thread. Please post accordingly. This is not a discussion thread between the two positions. There are many other threads for that. This is the IDI thread.

Please stay on topic.


Thanks,

Salem
 
  • #134
This is the IDI thread. Please post accordingly. This is not a discussion thread between the two positions. There are many other threads for that. This is the IDI thread.

Please stay on topic.


Thanks,

Salem

Sorry Salem, I hadn't realized what thread I was on. That's one of the drawbacks of using Tapatalk and an iphone Well, that and they keep updating the dang app... So I'm always trying to get used to something new...and I'm not as young as I used to be... I noticed that process is taking a little longer than it used to! Again, my apologies!
 
  • #135
As I was going over other sites with links to actual facts and depositions this weekend, I was reminded of all the silly theories that have come out of this.

I really believe that had the police been on the ball from the moment they showed up, Taken the time to search that house from top to bottom CORRECTLY, secured the scene properly and taken the steps to investigate from the moment they arrived, We would have an answer today. So much evidence was trampled, moved disturbed and most likely destroyed.

It is such a shame because this little girl deserves justice.
 
  • #136
  • #137
What makes you think evidence was destroyed because the scene wasn't secured?

John Ramsey moved the body and contaminated the crime scene. Patsy threw herself on JonBenet and a blanket found upstairs was used to cover her & further contaminated her body.
 
  • #138
John Ramsey moved the body and contaminated the crime scene. Patsy threw herself on JonBenet and a blanket found upstairs was used to cover her & further contaminated her body.

That lead to contamination, yes.
But destroyed the evidence? The evidence is still there although compromised.
 
  • #139
That lead to contamination, yes.
But destroyed the evidence? The evidence is still there although compromised.

Would have been much better to have LE immediately find the body and secure the scene. The crime scene would have been pristine.
 
  • #140
Okay Guys - I'm going to say this plainly and simply. I'm not getting on to anyone here - just setting the parameters of this thread.

You can discuss the evidence. That's important. BUT if your discussion is only to show that it must have been the Ramseys' that committed this crime, then don't post it. This isn't the thread for that. This is the thread to discuss how the evidence might point to an intruder or someone other than the Ramseys. If you don't think that is possible, then this is not the thread for you. Take it to one of the other threads, like the RDI thread.

Any snark or attacks will get you a TO.

This is an intriguing case with several options/solutions still on the table - as evidenced by the fact that the case remains unsolved. If you don't want to explore other ideas - that's fine. That's okay. But don't prevent others from doing so.


Salem
 
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