Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

[Chewy]

Explaining why, after a blood curdling scream, from a small child, Ms. Stanton could not give a time, other than 12:00-2:00 am, AND did not call police, or the Ramsey home, then went back to sleep, would be tough. First impressions are often vivid directly after an event involving LE, then soften. "He ran right into me, on purpose!" becomes, "I do not know how, or why, but his car backed into mine" down the line. Not lying, human nature.

It would be "human nature" if one of them told the story and then changed it. But both of them did in tandem to the exact same thing. That's a mark of deception not "human nature."

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

If they changed their story because they are afraid of the police coming after them they are LYING.

Don't you understand what the word lying means???

Nice..

I do. I don't call it lying until I know the reason. It could be they were intimidated or scared and just withdrew their statement.

Until I know the details, I don't call people liars.

 

[Darly314]

It would be "human nature" if one of them told the story and then changed it. But both of them did in tandem to the exact same thing. That's a mark of deception not "human nature."

A possibility, but I have seen cases wherein dramatic testimony becomes "a shrug"; being in the same household increases the chances. A mixture of deception, and human FRAILTY, I should phrase it. Again though, as dramatic as the first statement was, how could Ms. Stanton not notice the exact time, and most importantly, DO NOTHING?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It would be "human nature" if one of them told the story and then changed it. But both of them did in tandem to the exact same thing. That's a mark of deception not "human nature."

It is human nature to protect yourself and your own. Who knows why they changed it.

 

[MyBelle]

Nice..

I do. I don't call it lying until I know the reason. It could be they were intimidated or scared and just withdrew their statement.

Until I know the details, I don't call people liars.

A lie is still a lie, no matter the reason behind telling it. Some people such as myself hold the opinion that telling lies should have consequences.

 

[Darly314]

Nice..

I do. I don't call it lying until I know the reason. It could be they were intimidated or scared and just withdrew their statement.

Until I know the details, I don't call people liars.

Sometimes witnesses feel they 'sounded hysterical" and I have heard "I did NOT tell that police officer that!" many, many times.

 

[Chewy]

A lie is still a lie, no matter the reason behind telling it. Some people such as myself hold the opinion that telling lies should have consequences.

This, I'm truly baffled at this simple concept being so controversial. :waitasec: :waitasec:

Regardless of why they lied, the police should have interviewed them.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

"From Steve Thomas’ book:
"In a few days another neighbor, Melody Stanton, who lived at 738 Fifteenth Street, diagonally across from the Ramsey home, also changed her original story, which was that she had not noticed anything unusual on the night JonBenét died. When a detective interviewed her a second time, Stanton admitted that she had not told the truth earlier because she did not want to be involved in the case. She now claimed to have heard the piercing scream of a child between midnight and two o'clock on the morning of December 26. Her story, which seemed a clear piece of evidence, contained the seeds of it’s own destruction, however. More than a year later we would discover that Stanton also told the detective, "It may have not been an audible scream but rather the negative energy radiating from JonBenet"."



Melodie and Luther Stanton... - Forums For Justice

I don't see lies.. I see her not wanting to be involved maybe scared so she said nothing in the beginning.. then she told her story as she remembered it.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

A lie is still a lie, no matter the reason behind telling it. Some people such as myself hold the opinion that telling lies should have consequences.

It is not that simple. You can remember wrong, Forget things.. Lies can be but are not always black and white. It depends on intention.

 

[Darly314]

It is not that simple. You can remember wrong, Forget things.. Lies can be but are not always black and white. It depends on intention.

Yes. Human memories are as changeable as human moods.

 

[Tawny]

If it isn't true, regardless of motivation or reason, it's a lie.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

If it isn't true, regardless of motivation or reason, it's a lie.

I just don't agree. I think people remember wrong I think they see things one way when they are another and I think that when emotions are involved people don't always know what they are saying.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I do believe people flat out lie. I do believe some people are very adept liars.. But I also believe as in this case they could have been spooked at first by the whole thing and afraid to say something and get involved. I understand that. She did tell her account to the second detective.

 

[MyBelle]

It is not that simple. You can remember wrong, Forget things.. Lies can be but are not always black and white. It depends on intention.

In a murder case, it is very simple. Lies, for whatever reason, can't be relied on as evidence. It is impossible for a jury to determine which version is the actual truth.

 

[MyBelle]

This, I'm truly baffled at this simple concept being so controversial. :waitasec: :waitasec:

Regardless of why they lied, the police should have interviewed them.

I agree. Police handled it appropriately. How to handle a witness who offers such contradictory statements isn't a controversial concept in any murder investigation.

 

[Chewy]

I just don't agree. I think people remember wrong I think they see things one way when they are another and I think that when emotions are involved people don't always know what they are saying.

I'm sorry but what part of TWO people changing one story (which they both told the same thing) to another identical story are you not getting? Either the first story is a lie or the second story is a lie. It's that black and white. If you are telling untrue stories for whatever reason it is a LIE by definition. My goodness this is complicating a fact for no reason. SMH :scared:

 

[THE BUNK]

I just don't agree. I think people remember wrong I think they see things one way when they are another and I think that when emotions are involved people don't always know what they are saying.

Then you are open to the possibility that the Ramsey's statements may be incorrect in their story? Then perhaps emotions made them also forget that Burke was awake at the time.

 

[THE BUNK]

Originally Posted by ScarlettScarpetta View Post
It is not that simple. You can remember wrong, Forget things.. Lies can be but are not always black and white. It depends on intention.
In a murder case, it is very simple. Lies, for whatever reason, can't be relied on as evidence. It is impossible for a jury to determine which version is the actual truth.

If you ask any cop, they'll tell you the everyone lies to a degree when a crime occurs. Victims lie all the time to put themselves in the best lite, avoid payback from the killer or to simply hide the killer from capture.

The Ramsey's are not only suspects, but they are also victims. Just because someone is a victim, doesn't mean they are not lying to your face.

Don't assume that a suspect is the only person that is going to lie to you.

The key is you have to decipher what the purpose of the lie is. Unless someone is a pathological liar...there usually is a purpose behind the lie. That's what a good detective can deduce. The purpose behind the lie.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

In a murder case, it is very simple. Lies, for whatever reason, can't be relied on as evidence. It is impossible for a jury to determine which version is the actual truth.

Actually it is up to the jury to decide what is true and not. I would have no problem believing that someone was afraid and then came forward at a later date.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I'm sorry but what part of TWO people changing one story (which they both told the same thing) to another identical story are you not getting? Either the first story is a lie or the second story is a lie. It's that black and white. If you are telling untrue stories for whatever reason it is a LIE by definition. My goodness this is complicating a fact for no reason. SMH :scared:

She heard it. She was afraid to get involved so she told them she did not hear anything.. Then when asked again she told them what she heard. I don't have any issue with this in any case.

I think a lot of people would be scared to get involved in a case where a little girl was murdered in the safety of her home.