Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

[Anti-K]

No. It doesn't go without saying. I find it unlikely to impossible for someone to surveil in a neighborhood like that.
Now maybe we can progress past challenging statements to discussion....

Well, it should go without saying, but since you disagree: I’ll say it, “We’re talking about someone who may have surveilled the Ramsey home and/or the Ramseys without being noticed.”

Despite your incredulity, this is exactly what burglars and perverts (and LE, etc.) have been doing since forever – surveilling people and people’s homes (places and things, etc). You can do it, too. You just have to be very, very sneaky.

Much (most?) of the surveillance that I’m suggesting could have been accomplished on the night (or, day) of the crime. However, I also think that it is possible that the killer could have (and, he should have) entered the house on an earlier occasion a few or several days in advance.

He may have used the basement window on that occasion. This would explain the signs of recent disturbance in that area. Spiders would have been able to re-web in the time between the advance entry and the entry through who-knows-what-point on Christmas night.

Or, maybe he was in the home during one of those christmas tours, or under some other pretext or reason.

The point is that the information the killer needed was information that he could have gathered simply and quickly, and much (most? all?) of it could have been gathered on the fly, during the commission of the crime.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

All of this gets me to wondering how the killer would have known where the Ramseys lived. The telephone book? Because he had been in the home (Christmas tour, contractor, plumber, repairman, etc) before they had been chosen as his victims?

Anyone have any ideas?
...

AK

 

[catswhiskers]

Just bumping Tricia's opening post for this thread:

We are opening up this thread with new rules.

If you are a "Ramseys did it" poster then you are not allowed to post on this thread. The IDI's get one thread and the "RDI's" get many.

If you are posting on the "Intruder" thread please remember your posts must be reasonable and you cannot point fingers at innocent people.

Until the police either solve the case or there is a real confession the "Intruder" shall remain nameless.

If you are an IDI person and you want to post in a reasonable manner on the RDI thread then you may do so but I am telling you I will not tolerate any sort of disruption no matter what the post is disguised to look like.

Hopefully this will keep the peace.

Thank you,
Tricia

 

[Mama2JML]

All of this gets me to wondering how the killer would have known where the Ramseys lived. The telephone book? Because he had been in the home (Christmas tour, contractor, plumber, repairman, etc) before they had been chosen as his victims?

Anyone have any ideas?
...

AK

My perpetual ponderance...

 

[Tawny]

So, "RDI" can't even post in here when attempting to really discuss possible IDI situations?? Even our legitimate suggestions and questions regarding INTRUDER DID IT get shut down and degraded. Cool story bro.

 

[catswhiskers]

Degraded? Really? I'm guessing you could challenge Tricia about her post - but I think it outlines the purpose of this thread and the conditions for posting here pretty well. It's one place in the forum where folks who aren't of the RDI persuasion are able to discuss ideas without being mocked and ridiculed.

 

[Anti-K]

I don’t have any problem with RDI posting here. I don’t mind being questioned or challenged and I don’t even mind being attacked and/or ridiculed once in a while.
...

AK

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

There is a reason the rule is in effect. If you are Rdi you need to keep that out of this thread.


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

 

[2 percent]

Degraded? Really? I'm guessing you could challenge Tricia about her post - but I think it outlines the purpose of this thread and the conditions for posting here pretty well. It's one place in the forum where folks who aren't of the RDI persuasion are able to discuss ideas without being mocked and ridiculed.

You're wrong. Arguing theory is never discouraged as long as it sticks to the subject. For my part, I don't mention RDI on the IDI thread. I can't say the same for everyone, however.

 

[2 percent]

Well, it should go without saying, but since you disagree: I’ll say it, “We’re talking about someone who may have surveilled the Ramsey home and/or the Ramseys without being noticed.”

Despite your incredulity, this is exactly what burglars and perverts (and LE, etc.) have been doing since forever – surveilling people and people’s homes (places and things, etc). You can do it, too. You just have to be very, very sneaky.

Much (most?) of the surveillance that I’m suggesting could have been accomplished on the night (or, day) of the crime. However, I also think that it is possible that the killer could have (and, he should have) entered the house on an earlier occasion a few or several days in advance.

He may have used the basement window on that occasion. This would explain the signs of recent disturbance in that area. Spiders would have been able to re-web in the time between the advance entry and the entry through who-knows-what-point on Christmas night.

Or, maybe he was in the home during one of those christmas tours, or under some other pretext or reason.

The point is that the information the killer needed was information that he could have gathered simply and quickly, and much (most? all?) of it could have been gathered on the fly, during the commission of the crime.
...

AK

You are advancing a theory where windows are being peered in to as the source of information [modsnip].

Also, there is no evidence to support your theory of surveillance by anyone.

But if I'm understanding you correctly, how the information was collected is less important than other evidence of IDI. Well, that's not true for me. How info was gathered and ingress achieved is foremost in the IDI scenario.

 

[Mama2JML]

You are advancing a theory where windows are being peered in to as the source of information [modsnip]
Also, there is no evidence to support your theory of surveillance by anyone.

But if I'm understanding you correctly, how the information was collected is less important than other evidence of IDI. Well, that's not true for me. How info was gathered and ingress achieved is foremost in the IDI scenario.

What "info"? How do you surmise it was gathered?

 

[Anti-K]

You are advancing a theory where windows are being peered in to as the source of information [modsnip]
Also, there is no evidence to support your theory of surveillance by anyone.

But if I'm understanding you correctly, how the information was collected is less important than other evidence of IDI. Well, that's not true for me. How info was gathered and ingress achieved is foremost in the IDI scenario.

I’m not offering a theory, at all. I’m simply speculating. And, no I didn’t say that LE peers in windows as a means of gathering information. I said that burglars and perverts (and LE, etc.) surveil people and people’s homes (places and things, etc).

In this case, it is possible that someone looking through the windows and through “Fernie’s” door would have been able to see the location of pens, the notepad and the spiral stairs. I don’t know that this happened and I don’t have a theory that this happened, I simply note that it could have happened.
...

AK

 

[2 percent]

What "info"? How do you surmise it was gathered?

No. The question is how you surmise the info was gathered under improbable circumstances.
Unless you want to commit to a/this/some theory we can discuss in detail.

 

[2 percent]

I’m not offering a theory, at all. I’m simply speculating. And, no I didn’t say that LE peers in windows as a means of gathering information. I said that burglars and perverts (and LE, etc.) surveil people and people’s homes (places and things, etc).

In this case, it is possible that someone looking through the windows and through “Fernie’s” door would have been able to see the location of pens, the notepad and the spiral stairs. I don’t know that this happened and I don’t have a theory that this happened, I simply note that it could have happened.
...

AK

You say things can be seen from inside the house by peering in a window, etc. You advance the theory this is the means of information by making a blanket statement on surveillance, [modsnip].

 

[Venom]

All this talk about someone surveilling the home got me thinking....why Christmas Day? If anything, peoples routines would be a bit different on Christmas. Does anyone know what kind of crime stats there are for Christmas? To me, it seems like an odd day to pick to do a crime like this.

*Not sure if I could post this in the IDI thread....if not, mods please delete. My intent isn't to disrupt the thread, only asking as I've always found it odd that this happened on Christmas night.*

 

[lawstudent]

I don't know if I'm RDI or IDI for sure. But I believe if it's IDI, it is someone who knew them. Way too much planning for a random peeping tom hoping for an opportunity. People who were fixating on her were probably thoroughly investigated. But the more i say this, the more I start realizing I probably don't belong in this thread. Who sees Christmas night as an opportune time to sneak in and try and kidnap a child? Burglaries spike on Christmas because people aren't home. Home invasions do not because people are most definitely home, often with many relatives over, and you can't predict people's schedules. Unless the purpose was solely ransom, and this added to the drama. The problem with me is I can only see IDI if the intruder was not sexually motivated - it just doesnt seem like a sexual crime to me, but more of a staged sexual crime after something went wrong with the kidnapping for ransom.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

All this talk about someone surveilling the home got me thinking....why Christmas Day? If anything, peoples routines would be a bit different on Christmas. Does anyone know what kind of crime stats there are for Christmas? To me, it seems like an odd day to pick to do a crime like this.

*Not sure if I could post this in the IDI thread....if not, mods please delete. My intent isn't to disrupt the thread, only asking as I've always found it odd that this happened on Christmas night.*

People are less guarded on Christmas Day. They are enjoying the memories. Not looking for bad things to happen.
They would be easier targets.


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

 

[Chewy]

I think that the purpose of the thread is to develop the theory that an IDI. I have to stay out of the Burke did it thread because the point isn't to debate the theory but to build the theory. (I'm assuming)

But it does make it hard to weed through the ideas to decide which ones are not logical or don't make sense.

IMO it's entirely possible that either a total stranger who was crazy did it who had gotten access to the house at the Christmas open house and wandered off and set up a way to get back in the house.

But it more reads like someone who knew them. Especially with the ransom note. When I see how much vitriol is aimed at the Ramseys from virtual strangers who didn't know them, I can only imagine how much vitriol from jealous frenemies in the neighborhood who felt Patsy was showing off all the time.

There are plenty of stories in the news about girls abducted and kept in a house as sex slaves for me to consider that someone close to them could have done this.

I just don't understand how Jonbenet wound up in the basement if the intention was an abduction. That's where it just gets strange to me.

Why would the intruder take her to the basement?

A. To hide the body with the intention that John would take out the money and maybe even collect the ransom only to find the body in the basement. This would rely on him not calling the cops.

B. A kidnapping gone wrong and the person knowing Jonbenet could identify them so they killed her. (That still doesn't make sense with the mutilation of the body)

I'd like to hear more theories on this.

 

[chlban]

I've always said if an IDI, Christmas was a weird time to pick! People's schedules are messed up. You can't predict who will be home and when and if the neighbors are going to be home and noticing things like strange people and cars in the neighborhood. I guess it's possible someone who knew their schedule could be confident of their timeline but that's as far as I'll go.

Sorry, wrong thread

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I think that the purpose of the thread is to develop the theory that an IDI. I have to stay out of the Burke did it thread because the point isn't to debate the theory but to build the theory. (I'm assuming)

But it does make it hard to weed through the ideas to decide which ones are not logical or don't make sense.

IMO it's entirely possible that either a total stranger who was crazy did it who had gotten access to the house at the Christmas open house and wandered off and set up a way to get back in the house.

But it more reads like someone who knew them. Especially with the ransom note. When I see how much vitriol is aimed at the Ramseys from virtual strangers who didn't know them, I can only imagine how much vitriol from jealous frenemies in the neighborhood who felt Patsy was showing off all the time.

There are plenty of stories in the news about girls abducted and kept in a house as sex slaves for me to consider that someone close to them could have done this.

I just don't understand how Jonbenet wound up in the basement if the intention was an abduction. That's where it just gets strange to me.

Why would the intruder take her to the basement?

A. To hide the body with the intention that John would take out the money and maybe even collect the ransom only to find the body in the basement. This would rely on him not calling the cops.

B. A kidnapping gone wrong and the person knowing Jonbenet could identify them so they killed her. (That still doesn't make sense with the mutilation of the body)

I'd like to hear more theories on this.

We can not use our reason to figure out why a criminal would do something.

But there are scenarios that could lead to her being brought down to the basement that are plausible.



Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.