Iraq - Saddam Hussein, for crimes against humanity, Halabja, 1988

[IrishMist]

I hope I don't get flamed for saying this, but I think it would be a far worse punishment for SH to sit in prison for the rest of his life, rather than be martyred with an execution, not to mention the terrorist backlash that will inevitably occur after he is executed....

Well said, Sandrala, and I agree with you.

 

[Penelope631]

Saddam sentenced to death by hanging

Clashes, celebratory gunfire greet guilty verdict; Talabani says trial was fair


Chief prosecutor Jaafar al-Moussawi told reporters that the Anfal trial now in progress for Saddam and others alleged role in gassing and killing Kurds would continue while the appeals process is underway. But if the appellate judges uphold the death sentence, the Anfal proceedings and other cases would be halted and Saddam hanged.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15567363/?GT1=8717

 

[Penelope631]

Saddam urges Iraqis not to take revenge on U.S.

Former leader urges countrymen to 'unify in face of' strife, his lawyer says


AMMAN, Jordan - Saddam Hussein urged Iraqis on Sunday to reject the sectarian violence ripping his country apart and to "not take revenge" on U.S. invaders, his chief lawyer said after the ousted leader was sentenced to death.

The message from President Saddam to his people came during a meeting in Baghdad this morning, just before the so-called Iraqi court issued its verdict in his trial," Khalil al-Dulaimi told The Associated Press in a telephone interview from Baghdad.
"His message to the Iraqi people was 'pardon and do not take revenge on the invading nations and their people'," al-Dulaimi said, quoting Saddam.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15570667/?GT1=8717

 

[Details]

I heard that the appeals are automatic in the death penalty cases.

I'm pretty sure Saddam will be tried for hundreds of thousands more murders that took place in Iraq.

Did he give them their appeals?

<sigh> it's such a pain being civilized sometimes...

 

[Details]

Please don't take this as a flame, it's not meant to be, just a thought.

1) Just about every criminal given the DP tries to get it reduced to LWOP or less. I have yet to hear of a criminal given LWOP who has asked for the DP instead. If the one who has to suffer the punishment feels the DP is more severe then I would not question that conclusion.

2) Alternatively, if LWOP IS a harsher punishment, shouldn't compassion dictate that the criminal be given the less cruel punishment - DP?

Also, we cannot let criminals go unpunished because of the threat of retalliation from their followers - every criminal has someone that supports them, if you follow this all the way to the point where you don't put a burglar in jail because it will upset his children we lose the ability to punish anyone.

I can't see how it could be taken as a flame myself - and it's some interesting thoughts.

Yeah - I don't think criminals themselves believe at all that death is the better option. Maybe a very rare individual, but the overwhelming majority want to live. And Saddam as a living prisoner is also a magnet for trouble and a center to the cause - just ask South Africa's obsolete gov't about that....

 

[BarnGoddess]

Has no one mentioned that the Vatican came out against Sadam being executed? I have to disagree with their position.

Allowing Sadam to languish in prison, especially somewhere in Iraq could mean he would escape some day. That would be the ultimate travesty of justice. The next trial will be worse. The "numbers game" as was reported is the difference between crimes against humanity and genocide. What he did to the Kurds is genocide.

 

[Details]

Has no one mentioned that the Vatican came out against Sadam being executed? I have to disagree with their position.

Allowing Sadam to languish in prison, especially somewhere in Iraq could mean he would escape some day. That would be the ultimate travesty of justice. The next trial will be worse. The "numbers game" as was reported is the difference between crimes against humanity and genocide. What he did to the Kurds is genocide.

Worse than escaping though - he can sit there and issue pronouncements (or, any group with an interest can issue pronouncements that are supposedly from him) - both death and LWOP have their problems here.

 

[BarnGoddess]

Worse than escaping though - he can sit there and issue pronouncements (or, any group with an interest can issue pronouncements that are supposedly from him) - both death and LWOP have their problems here.

I did hear he preferred firing squad. Perhaps after his next trial he will be given a death sentence by firing squad and he can choose that.

 

[Dark Knight]

Has no one mentioned that the Vatican came out against Sadam being executed? I have to disagree with their position.

Allowing Sadam to languish in prison, especially somewhere in Iraq could mean he would escape some day. That would be the ultimate travesty of justice. The next trial will be worse. The "numbers game" as was reported is the difference between crimes against humanity and genocide. What he did to the Kurds is genocide.

Almost all of Europe has also come out against hanging, too. What is up with these people????

 

[Details]

Almost all of Europe has also come out against hanging, too. What is up with these people????

They're against the death penalty - period .... or at least their governments are. If you poll the people, you get a somewhat different answer....

Also, one thing about this - I think people don't really know enough at times about Saddams crimes. For an ordinary criminal, you see the mother of the victim, a horrifying story that could be your own sister, daughter, etc. But when there's so many, I think people don't really see it - they see a crowd of people, and hear that Saddam is charged with atrocities - but he didn't do them personally, so he's harder to hate. But he still caused them to happen, and ask any of his victims and their families, and they have no problem. Nor did Saddam himself have a problem with the death penalty.

 

[Nore]

While I'm glad that Sadam will finally pay for the atrocities he committed I worry about our men and women over there. I woke up to see news videos of one set of people celebrating while another, the Sunnies (mostly ones in his hometown) protesting and vowing to get revenge.

------------

lizzybeth I have the very same fears.My first thought was they will take it out on our servicepeople and I am worried.

 

[BarnGoddess]

Almost all of Europe has also come out against hanging, too. What is up with these people????

DK, this is off topic, but I've been obsessed with your crucifix lately. I did a search and have found two crucifixions by Salvador Dali. I saw this one years ago in the National Gallery of Art in DC.


http://www.artsforge.com/agallery/crucifix.html

Also, here is another one of his:

St John of the Cross:

http://www.glasgowmuseums.com/venue/showNews.cfm?venueid=4&itemid=442


Also saw his Last Supper at the National Museum of Art.
http://www.fulcrumgallery.com/print_25282.aspx

Both totally blew me away. The Crucifixion seemed to literally come off the canvas at you. both took my breath away.

 

[Dark Knight]

DK, this is off topic, but I've been obsessed with your crucifix lately. I did a search and have found two crucifixions by Salvador Dali. I saw this one years ago in the National Gallery of Art in DC.


http://www.artsforge.com/agallery/crucifix.html

Also, here is another one of his:

St John of the Cross:

http://www.glasgowmuseums.com/venue/showNews.cfm?venueid=4&itemid=442


Also saw his Last Supper at the National Museum of Art.
http://www.fulcrumgallery.com/print_25282.aspx

Both totally blew me away. The Crucifixion seemed to literally come off the canvas at you. both took my breath away.

Thanks for those interesting links!!!! Glad you liked the images! Praise the Lord! :blowkiss: (Dali is a bit too liberal with his interpretations for my taste, but I somewhat understand it.)

 

[Taximom]

I just heard a reporter say that Saddam himself asked that the people of Iraq not take the guilty verdict out on U.S. soldiers.

 

[Penelope631]

I just heard a reporter say that Saddam himself asked that the people of Iraq not take the guilty verdict out on U.S. soldiers.

I posted an article on this Post # 20 on the first page.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Almost all of Europe has also come out against hanging, too. What is up with these people????

Maybe, they are more civilized than we are?
http://encarta.msn.com/media_461543496/Capital_Punishment_Worldwide.html

"An execution is not simply death. It is just as different from the privation of life as a concentration camp is from prison. It adds to death a rule, a public premeditation known to the future victim, an organization which is itself a source of moral sufferings more terrible than death.

Capital punishment is the most premeditated of murders, to which no criminal's deed, however calculated can be compared. For there to be an equivalency, the death penalty would have to punish a criminal who had warned his victim of the date at which he would inflict a horrible death on him and who, from that moment onward, had confined him at his mercy for months. Such a monster is not encountered in private life."

Albert Camus---"Reflections on the Guillotine, Resistance, Rebellion & Death" (1966).

 

[barry9120]

One reporter stated that because Saddam was in charge of the military, he would be shot rather than hanged-something about that being more dignified for an officer.

I wonder if he has a choice or if that's the final decision by their court system-being hanged. I would like to think he has no choice in the matter and will be hanged in the middle of one of those public arenas they have over there for such events.

Hermann Goring also asked for the same when he was sentenced to death at Nuremberg. He was denied his request to be shot and was scheduled to hand. Of course a cyanide pill helped him cheat the gallows.:furious:

 

[barry9120]

Maybe, they are more civilized than we are?
http://encarta.msn.com/media_461543496/Capital_Punishment_Worldwide.html

"An execution is not simply death. It is just as different from the privation of life as a concentration camp is from prison. It adds to death a rule, a public premeditation known to the future victim, an organization which is itself a source of moral sufferings more terrible than death.

Capital punishment is the most premeditated of murders, to which no criminal's deed, however calculated can be compared. For there to be an equivalency, the death penalty would have to punish a criminal who had warned his victim of the date at which he would inflict a horrible death on him and who, from that moment onward, had confined him at his mercy for months. Such a monster is not encountered in private life."

Albert Camus---"Reflections on the Guillotine, Resistance, Rebellion & Death" (1966).

No doubt Camus was a great philosopher and author, The Stranger was one of my all time favorites. However, in his own philosophical take on the death penalty he also provides the reason why capital punishment is so very necessary as a deterrent to future criminals. It is premeditated, it is confinement at the executioner's hand, it is knowing the time, place and manner of death, it is excrutiating in it's very nature to the condemned. But, I ask you this, isn't it better to know when and how then to be the victim of an unexpected brutal murder? At least the criminal has time to make peace, the victim most likely didn't. It's just my opinion.

 

[windovervocalcords]

No doubt Camus was a great philosopher and author, The Stranger was one of my all time favorites. However, in his own philosophical take on the death penalty he also provides the reason why capital punishment is so very necessary as a deterrent to future criminals. It is premeditated, it is confinement at the executioner's hand, it is knowing the time, place and manner of death, it is excrutiating in it's very nature to the condemned. But, I ask you this, isn't it better to know when and how then to be the victim of an unexpected brutal murder? At least the criminal has time to make peace, the victim most likely didn't. It's just my opinion.

The research does not support the death penalty is a deterrent. Do you really think the death penalty ever came into , Milosevitch, Pol Pot, Hitler or Saddam's mind?

 

[Details]

...Capital punishment is the most premeditated of murders, to which no criminal's deed, however calculated can be compared. For there to be an equivalency, the death penalty would have to punish a criminal who had warned his victim of the date at which he would inflict a horrible death on him and who, from that moment onward, had confined him at his mercy for months. Such a monster is not encountered in private life."

Albert Camus---"Reflections on the Guillotine, Resistance, Rebellion & Death" (1966).

He might have lived in a better time - we have such monsters. Few and far between - but they exist. And they don't concern themselves with avoiding pain on the part of the victim.

But - I've got two minds on this. One thinks about whether or not capital punishment is OK or not - the other thinks about the practicalities of a world where that is a choice, and what do I think is most effective for society. With all those Saddam sentenced to death, with his people needing to reestablish their own control of their country and to renounce what happened in his time, and with Saddam himself being a dangerous symbol to those who would like to continue to oppress and kill the Sunnis (or was it Shiites?) and Kurds - and Americans while we remain - I think he'll be a less powerful symbol in death, than in life, issuing occasional proclamations from jail. To make the case that we can't kill him because then he'll be a martyr I don't like because that implies that all a criminal has to do is be particularly horrible and have a crew that is equally horrible, and we'll reward them... and I don't think a martyr has more power than a prisoner.

On capital punishment - I tend to be against it - but OTOH... I'm mostly against it because we sometimes make mistakes - even when we think we're quite sure. I'm for it, for getting a criminal gone, permanently, without risk of escape or harm to other inmates, guards, etc. In this case - no real chance of mistakes - Saddam did all this, and more, and his own court system does not find it justified. Killing thousands, men, women, and children (poison gas), torture - he's got a pretty horrendous list.