Is Anybody In Charge of Portugal?

[Tuba]

Lax laws that promote passively rampant pedophilia but also a lack of interest in very bold house burglaries. The wrong people holding keys and just opening front doors and entering and then the cartoonish exit through a window if detected. I do understand why Kate McCann thought an abductor came in through the window. With an empty bed next to a window that had been closed up & shuttered, that would be a natural first reaction. It was after inspection that no damage to the shutters from the outside was the police determination. Since the heavy metal shutters were covered with plastic coating, they do harbor fingerprints. One of the leaks some time back was that stranger fingerprints were found in 5A. I wonder if some were on the shutters. I also wonder if you could kidnap a toddler & walk out across the public road openly carrying her; that seems beyond brazen. I have never thought this was a one person operation so bundleman may have been an accomplice, not the instigator.

 

[Desertpea]

People everywhere are getting more desperate.

They will take anything that isn't tied down and if it is they'll take it anyway.

I think there's every possibility someone abducted Madeleine, an opportunist who seized the moment.

Makes more sense to me than Kate killing her because she was a 'handful' or had such severe disabilities (even though she looked and sounded like a perfectly normal 3 yr old) that Gerry decided to take her to Portugal to knock her off.

 

[Tuba]

Wow. Oct 25 Telegraph reports that none of the interviews with the Tapas 9 or the McCanns were recorded.

 

[AfterMidnight]

Wow. Oct 25 Telegraph reports that none of the interviews with the Tapas 9 or the McCanns were recorded.

IF that's true, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

 

[Tuba]

This past week, more leaks making headlines, this time DNA and hair from Madeleine found at Murat's villa. I'm wondering if there is any substance to these "discoveries" and the assertion by the PJ that they can prove the holiday doctors knew Murat. Usually these stories break only to be discredited or denied the next week. And then one has to question the timing because Murat's place was examined closely so long ago and the forensic work was done & completed in Portugal back at that time. It could be that FSS Birmingham has confirmed the labs in Portugal but that has not been said. The most innocuous reason for the timing of this information is to oppose Murat's plea that he be cleared. He is agitating for that this week and last.

 

[Tuba]

Instead of one color rendition, The Times of London this weekend has three drawings, each from a very slightly different angle and one with a nose.

 

[Pinkhammer]

A nose! Pretty soon he will have an entire face.

And Maddie will still be missing.

 

[dingo]

Some countries are slow to act I suppose, I hope they get the register going soon this case being the impetus.

Impetus?....please explain.I dont get out much.

 

[CaliKid]

Lax laws that promote passively rampant pedophilia but also a lack of interest in very bold house burglaries. The wrong people holding keys and just opening front doors and entering and then the cartoonish exit through a window if detected. I do understand why Kate McCann thought an abductor came in through the window. With an empty bed next to a window that had been closed up & shuttered, that would be a natural first reaction. It was after inspection that no damage to the shutters from the outside was the police determination. Since the heavy metal shutters were covered with plastic coating, they do harbor fingerprints. One of the leaks some time back was that stranger fingerprints were found in 5A. I wonder if some were on the shutters. I also wonder if you could kidnap a toddler & walk out across the public road openly carrying her; that seems beyond brazen. I have never thought this was a one person operation so bundleman may have been an accomplice, not the instigator.

Since their apartment was a rental and they had someone in every day or so to clean it, I would be surprised if there wasn't at least one set of fingerprints they couldn't identify.
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OT, I'm calling it a day. This has been one difficult week. However, I'm glad to say I still have a house that didn't burn up in the California wildfires, my family is safe and sound and we even had some rain this afternoon.

 

[Desertpea]

Impetus?....please explain.I dont get out much.

http://www.answers.com/topic/impetus

 

[colomom]

~snip
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OT, I'm calling it a day. This has been one difficult week. However, I'm glad to say I still have a house that didn't burn up in the California wildfires, my family is safe and sound and we even had some rain this afternoon.

Thank goodness for that Cali! I am happy to hear that you all are safe and sound. Scary days....

 

[Pisces Cloud]

I've always thought the Portuguese investigation appeared to be a complete shambles, especially at the beginning. Also, it sometimes reminded me of the Ben Needham investigation, the little boy who disappeared in Greece. The Greek police behaved in a similar slow manner at the start and then during criticisms of their work started to shift the spotlight and blame on to the Needham family. I get the impression that these police forces really aren't as professional and as efficient as what they should be.

 

[saggymoon]

I've always thought the Portuguese investigation appeared to be a complete shambles, especially at the beginning. Also, it sometimes reminded me of the Ben Needham investigation, the little boy who disappeared in Greece. The Greek police behaved in a similar slow manner at the start and then during criticisms of their work started to shift the spotlight and blame on to the Needham family. I get the impression that these police forces really aren't as professional and as efficient as what they should be.

Police normally need something to go on.

 

[BritsKate]

I've always thought the Portuguese investigation appeared to be a complete shambles, especially at the beginning. Also, it sometimes reminded me of the Ben Needham investigation, the little boy who disappeared in Greece. The Greek police behaved in a similar slow manner at the start and then during criticisms of their work started to shift the spotlight and blame on to the Needham family. I get the impression that these police forces really aren't as professional and as efficient as what they should be.

I believe the media influences a lot of our perceptions about foreign locales though too. The same happened in the Amanda Knox case of course. Many Americans believed Knox to be innocent even without knowing the case against her - the Italian police were viewed as antiquated, sexist, abusive, anti-American bullies.

In reality, according to Civitas documentation, in 2006 Portugal not only boasted a much lower crime rate as compared to the UK but also a much higher policing presence per capita.

 

[brit1981]

It depends on what the crimes are though.
I think the problem in this area of Portugal was that it came across liek there was a refusal to accept there could be paedophiles. hence the casa pia abuse (a child prostitution ring using children from a car ehome and involving several high profile people)was allowed to go on for years after it was reported to police, and photographic evidence was lost.
the police admit they did not see the flat off, and admit they let a cleaner go in not long after. They say they did this because they thought she had just wondered off. Plus it doe sseem odd to allow officers who are under investiagtion for torturing the mother of a missing child to be put in an investigation for a misisng child. Especially putting amaral in charge even though he wa sunder investiagtion. It meant there was always room for doubt about the efficiency of the investigation and how much the police were going to look for an intruder. If they decided it was an intruder then it strengthened the case against them and made it more likely the officers would get criminal convictions. They should have been put on garden leave in my opinion.

 

[saggymoon]

the police admit they did not see the flat off, and admit they let a cleaner go in not long after. They say they did this because they thought she had just wondered off. n.

Link please to the cleaner being allowed in shortly after.The OFFICIAL police files contain the cleaners statement in which she says she was turned away when she turned up for duty.

The flat was sealed off early hours 4th May, that is, after the Mccanns, their friends and others, more than a dozen people, they let into it BEFORE the police had a chance to even get there, had trashed the place and the Public Prosecutor confirms they contaminated the crime scene in his final Legal Summary. The Mccanns and friends also tampered with the shutters thereby contaminating the very items they said were jemmied and used as point of entry or exit by the alledged abductor, again before police got there. Why? Was the priority straight away to see if the shutters could be opened from the outside? So what if they could be?

 

[saggymoon]

It depends on what the crimes are though.
I think the problem in this area of Portugal was that it came across liek there was a refusal to accept there could be paedophiles. hence the casa pia abuse (a child prostitution ring using children from a car ehome and involving several high profile people)was allowed to go on for years after it was reported to police, and photographic evidence was lost.
the police admit they did not see the flat off, and admit they let a cleaner go in not long after. They say they did this because they thought she had just wondered off. Plus it doe sseem odd to allow officers who are under investiagtion for torturing the mother of a missing child to be put in an investigation for a misisng child. Especially putting amaral in charge even though he wa sunder investiagtion. It meant there was always room for doubt about the efficiency of the investigation and how much the police were going to look for an intruder. If they decided it was an intruder then it strengthened the case against them and made it more likely the officers would get criminal convictions. They should have been put on garden leave in my opinion.

You cannot link every crime in portugal to madeleine going missing. the casa pia scandal involved abuse of boys in care homes, something which has happened in alot of countries, not snatching girls from mark warners chalets.

 

[brit1981]

You cannot link every crime in portugal to madeleine going missing. the casa pia scandal involved abuse of boys in care homes, something which has happened in alot of countries, not snatching girls from mark warners chalets.

It is indicitive of how child abuse was investigated. There seemed to be a see no evil, hear no evil attitude. This may be the case in other countries, but we are looking at crimes committed in Portugal.

 

[saggymoon]

It is indicitive of how child abuse was investigated. There seemed to be a see no evil, hear no evil attitude. This may be the case in other countries, but we are looking at crimes committed in Portugal.

I fail to understand your point. The dissapearance of Madeleine was investigated by the police. Your post makes me think you are suggesting an abduction was covered up by them. Steady on.

 

[brit1981]

I do not think the police who were being investigated for torturing a woman and fabricating evidence, should have been put in the investigation for another missing child. It means that there will always be doubts raised about the efficiency of the investigation, and whether the police were blind as to the possibility of abduction. If anyone is ever taken to court in regards to madeleine's disappearence, their defence will always argue that the investigation was bias against the abduction in the beginning and this led to flaws in the investigation. The police have to be seen to be completely unbias, and sadly because of the torture investigation, it is going to be easy for any defence to claim bias regardless of whether this is true or not.
And the casa pia investigation, or more specifically the delay in the investigation, will be questioned by the defence to as a demonstration of issues with investigations into child abuse.

Its a not dissimilar situation as the one with as with that guy who has trespassed onto Murat's mother's house to scan for a body. Even if anything is found, because he went in there illegally with no witnesses, any defence will claim he was planting evidence, or knew someone else involved. It scuppers the ability of the investigation to say they were unbias.