Is Casey Anthony Possibly Innocent?

[panthera]

I can't say I think she's innocent but I'm not sure they'll be able to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that she's guilty either. The fact that they really don't have a concrete cause of death aside from homicide I think is really going to throw a wrench into things as far as the jury goes and we of course don't know what evidence they'll be seeing/hearing either.

Even when I try to be objective and look at this case from a different angle and think "what if " It's really, really hard to believe she COULD be innocent with her history of being a pathological liar. If she is innocent she is her own worst enemy here.

All that said, I'm keeping an open mind. Baez said something to the effect of "everything people think they know about this case is false" so I am looking forward to his "facts" coming out...

Defendants have been convicted of murder, and even sentenced to death, without a clear COD, especially when the victims' bodies are discarded and the remains so badly decomposed no ME can determine how the person(s) died. The circumstantial evidence surrounding Caylee's death will be what will convict ICA, in my opinion. In other words, if this isn't a homicide (murder) why the cover up, and why discard one's own child like trash? I don't believe the DT will be able to sufficiently explain this to give the jurors any "reasonable doubt".

MOO

 

[BigMomma]

Assuming you are correct about ICA assuming GA took Caylee to CA's work, why didn't ICA create a scene when she couldn't see Caylee the next day? Why didn't she return home from that day forward? More importantly, why did she tell her friends that Caylee was with the nanny, etc...? I don't mean to question you in a mean manner, I'm truly curious about your response.

Also, do you believe that CA is "in on this" and concocted those stories to AH and the police and FBI about where ICA said she was during those 31 days?

Oh No! Please! The last thing I want is any dissention or fighting over this, perfer to be somewhat open to the fact this could have happened. Well, for CA, it isn't just coincidence she was the one who was always there with a story, a blame, a call about a sighting, getting so involved with her calendar and notes. I have never to this day ever seen another grandparent or family member be that vocal and then go off the charts and blame the same LE that tried to help, turn against all of them. I'd like to ask her one of many questions, one being, why was there a need for her to go out of her way to make an anonymous call in to whoever it was and go through the spiel of seeing the little girl in the house with mother and grandmother on June 9 or was it the 12, think it was the 12? CA could have humbly called LE and said she made an innocent mistake, but then all three would have made the same mistake.
I really am looking forward to this so-called 31 day condensed into 1 minute opening statement or 1 a minute part that is going to clear up a lot of this mystery.

 

[BigMomma]

Big Momma, I will tell you my opinion of the wrong date. Cindy remembered it as the 9th and cindy has a very strong hold on the family and appears to be very organized. She told all of them it was the 9th (?) and they all assumed, "If Mom said it, it must be correct" and they all flew with it.

I do not want to disrupt your thread here. Just popped in here. I was curious as to how you guys think. Very good to have different views. Bye for now. :seeya:

LOL. Then it shows nobody can think for themselves in that house especially when it really matters.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

Big Momma, I will tell you my opinion of the wrong date. Cindy remembered it as the 9th and cindy has a very strong hold on the family and appears to be very organized. She told all of them it was the 9th (?) and they all assumed, "If Mom said it, it must be correct" and they all flew with it.

I do not want to disrupt your thread here. Just popped in here. I was curious as to how you guys think. Very good to have different views. Bye for now. :seeya:

The one thing I cut Cindy some slack on is the date of June 9th. Father's Day is the 2nd Sunday in June and most of the time that is the case, but alot of people forget or don't even know that it is the really the 2nd Sunday in June AFTER the first Monday. So in 2008 when June 1st was on a Sunday, that year, Father's Day was actually the 3rd Sunday in June. A month later when giving her statement, I can honestly see how she made the mistake on that date and yes, everyone else followed suit thinking Cindy would know the date. On most everything else....Cindy gets no slack.

 

[Pink Panther]

LOL. Then it shows nobody can think for themselves in that house especially when it really matters.

Maybe.

 

[gitana1]

Unless someone was playing some fast shuffle with information, it is questionable. True, she wasn't around the house too much, true she did go there to pick up clothes or whatnots in the late afternoon, but how do we actually know if she just figured her dad took Caylee to her mom's work? How do we know that for fact? What I would love to know and I bet there is no information on it, is if the officer, the one who took the info about the stolen gas cans? I wonder if he saw Caylee when he went to the house? I think this is a very good question. Would sure clear up a lot of gray area for me.

This question confuses me. There are no facts whatsoever to indicate that Caylee did not leave with her mother or that her grandfather or grandmother had her at any time after the morning of June 16, 2011 or that anyone else ever saw Caylee after she left the home that morning. The grandparents continued to work, etc and casey continued to lie about Caylee's whereabouts during that time. Also, the grandma posted a plaintive plea for the return of Caylee in the days before casey finally admitted she was missing.

Oh no! Not a saint, no, no. I just go back to the original information about what date Caylee was last seen and all 3 said it was June 7, 8, or 9. How did 3 separate individuals that were separated, come up with the very same date ? I do honestly wonder who told who what prior to 911. How do we know if they pawned her, we don't. we don't what kind of lifestyle the inside of their house had or what kind of mind games were gong on and with who. I think at one point somebody in that family thought this was going to be a cake walk because there is no evidence, or wasn't until they found Caylee and then it all looked like some phantom nanny did all of this. Yes, I could see this as a threat to ICA to shut her mouth, she is the CEO, if she told, who would believe her, if she kept her mouth shut, she'd walk and they'd be all over tv gloating about it, I can see that. More of an act of fear of her parents not love or respect for them. FEAR. BUT it fell apart and I just do not think ICA is playing anybody's game anymore. I think it was an accident, wether ICA was there or not is not the point anymore. Yes, I think at one point she did protect her parents, but not now, no more. I think they did lead her to think she'd walk on this and who would know more about it than a former cop. They all have lied through their teeth, they all know what the heck happened. They all should pay for what happened.

Simple, all three were together when that date was first uttered. It's easy to be confused on a date and to become solidified in a mistake about a date when in the same room as someone who is certain, but mistaken, about a date, especially when it is during a high pressure situation. They got the date wrong. No big deal to me.

 

[dodie20]

I can't say I think she's innocent but I'm not sure they'll be able to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that she's guilty either. The fact that they really don't have a concrete cause of death aside from homicide I think is really going to throw a wrench into things as far as the jury goes and we of course don't know what evidence they'll be seeing/hearing either.

Even when I try to be objective and look at this case from a different angle and think "what if " It's really, really hard to believe she COULD be innocent with her history of being a pathological liar. If she is innocent she is her own worst enemy here.

All that said, I'm keeping an open mind. Baez said something to the effect of "everything people think they know about this case is false" so I am looking forward to his "facts" coming out...

I can't say I think she's innocent, far from it, but I too am trying to keep an open mind and look at all the possibilities. Actually, and this is weird, but I think her history of lying, could be used to her benefit. I'm not sure how, but playing her as a normal mother will not work. I know a young mother who lies every time she opens her mouth. She even told her church that her father had died in a car wreck and had them pray for her family. It has been 10 years and he's still alive and kicking. If something happened to her child, there's no way she'd tell the simple unadorned truth. She just wouldn't. Some people are like that. I don't think this girl is evil and I don't think she'd ever hurt her child, but if an accident happened, I could see people being suspicious of her because of her lying. MOO.

 

[BigMomma]

Assuming you are correct about ICA assuming GA took Caylee to CA's work, why didn't ICA create a scene when she couldn't see Caylee the next day? Why didn't she return home from that day forward? More importantly, why did she tell her friends that Caylee was with the nanny, etc...? I don't mean to question you in a mean manner, I'm truly curious about your response.

Also, do you believe that CA is "in on this" and concocted those stories to AH and the police and FBI about where ICA said she was during those 31 days?

Fear of her father? I mean, we know her mother called her the "W" bomb at one time, and yes, I do beleive that much only because of the obvious control factor.
You are right though, nothing but NOTHING would keep me away from my child if something bad happened where I was told to leave, I'd find a way to take my child with me, I wouldn't be that threatened, but ICA could have been. Bottom line, there is nothing she did to help herself, but lie a lot, so nobody believes her now and will be hard at trial to believe her. Nothing is worth going through this, but then we don't know how dismal the situation at home could have been either. The lies will be everybody's undoing.

 

[katydid23]

Don't get me wrong.. I DO believe KC is guilty.. however for this thread I am willing to take a look at the possibility that she could be found not guilty.. I don't WANT that to happen but it could.

You pretty much echoed what I said.. we do not have a timeline for Caylee, but we DO have one for her mom. The defense CAN and I believe WILL try to use that to their advantage.

IMO I don't think it will work because I can only see ONE way for them to "play off" the Zanny aspect.. and I hope and pray it doesn't fly with the jury..

However, I am also keeping in mind that THIS jury will not have the years we have all had to look over and ponder the evidence and see what we so clearly see and believe..

That is a little bit scary.

In my way of thinking, we DO have a timeline for Caylee. She was a toddler, a totally dependent being, and not like a teenager or a boyfriend. If she was an older child then we would NOT have a valid timeline because she would have had free will and the ability to run away, or meet an on-line predator, or even jump in a lake by herself. BUT SHE WAS A BABY. So her timeline was IDENTICAL to her mother's timeline. imoo

They are already sending their friends and Defense team spokesman out in talk shows to say the nanny story is a lie. They want to distance themselves from that albatross around their necks. But their problem now is how ro replace that story. If she did not hand her off to the nanny, then what? And who?

 

[GiantPickle]

Nobody goes from point A (oh my god my child has drowned) to point Z (bag the child up and throw the child in the trunk) that fast. W

Snipped with all due respect -

that's why I believe she drowned and was discovered a good deal of time later in a state that proved she didn't slip away in a split second but rather that she had drowned and remained in the pool for some time...thus making Casey guilty of neglect. Something she couldn't admit. Caylee perhaps was obviously gone beyond the point of summoning 911 for resuscitation. So it was a matter of "what do I do with the body" rather than "someone help !" So she quickly thinks "shovel"....takes the body out of the pool...that's too much work/too obvious whatever...so she puts her in the trunk. Casey is trying to come up with a story while little Caylee is in the trunk (loose hair) and decides in that moment the imaginanny is the culprit - grabs the bags, duct tape and Zanny becomes a killer. She only later becomes a kidnapper when a month goes by without anyone finding the body.

of course this is all wild guesses but it makes sense more to me than a MOTY snapping and chloroforming a kid to sleep.

 

[pvaldez]

Is Casey Anthony possibly innocent?

A, No!

 

[BigMomma]

This question confuses me. There are no facts whatsoever to indicate that Caylee did not leave with her mother or that her grandfather or grandmother had her at any time after the morning of June 16, 2011 or that anyone else ever saw Caylee after she left the home that morning. The grandparents continued to work, etc and casey continued to lie about Caylee's whereabouts during that time. Also, the grandma posted a plaintive plea for the return of Caylee in the days before casey finally admitted she was missing.



Simple, all three were together when that date was first uttered. It's easy to be confused on a date and to become solidified in a mistake about a date when in the same room as someone who is certain, but mistaken, about a date, especially when it is during a high pressure situation. They got the date wrong. No big deal to me.

Well, we know CA had an explaination for everyday that ICA called her, but that doesn't make it a fact those conversations actually took place. ICA told her new friends about this nanny, true, she's a pipe dreamer, made it bigger than life for her friends to look like a somebody, she was too ashamed or prideful it was only her parents watching Caylee without financial benefit. She lied to fit in, we don't know if ICA was kicked out and Caylee was forced to be left behind. My azz would have been calling 911, so no excuse, but we still don't know the dynamics there. Just don't know. A baby dies and is thrown and everybody clams up and lies. This is so beyond discusting.

 

[crucibelle]

Because it had to be put on tightly to be attached so well that the lower mandible was still in place, if it had been applied later and the tissues were in any way swollen from decomp, the attachment would not have been so close and the jaw would have fallen away. After a few days any attachment would not be possible due to sloughing of the skin. It was put on to kill or at the point of death as the tape was entwined in the hair and wasn't meant to be removed, in fact it would have had to be removed by cutting.

It could have been applied shortly after death, though, before the tissues were swollen and before the sloughing of skin. By the way, I don't think ICA is innocent, no way, no how. I just think the tape could have been applied before death (used as murder weapon), or shortly after death. Placing the tape shortly after death does not make a lot of sense to me, therefore I think it was applied before, but I just wanted to point out that either way is possible.

 

[GiantPickle]

I think if you listen to the excited utterances of Cindy on that 911 tape, you would be hard pressed to believe that was fake/acting on her part.

George's first interviews with LE also ring very true (to me). The parental unit's lying comes later after Casey is back at the home and infected them.

 

[GracieLu]

Snipped with all due respect -

that's why I believe she drowned and was discovered a good deal of time later in a state that proved she didn't slip away in a split second but rather that she had drowned and remained in the pool for some time...thus making Casey guilty of neglect. Something she couldn't admit. Caylee perhaps was obviously gone beyond the point of summoning 911 for resuscitation. So it was a matter of "what do I do with the body" rather than "someone help !" So she quickly thinks "shovel"....takes the body out of the pool...that's too much work/too obvious whatever...so she puts her in the trunk. Casey is trying to come up with a story while little Caylee is in the trunk (loose hair) and decides in that moment the imaginanny is the culprit - grabs the bags, duct tape and Zanny becomes a killer. She only later becomes a kidnapper when a month goes by without anyone finding the body.

of course this is all wild guesses but it makes sense more to me than a MOTY snapping and chloroforming a kid to sleep.

With all due respect, I still don't buy it... even if Caylee was "gone beyond the point of calling 911" in a situation like that, you don't think about it, you just act. She would have been screaming, running to the neighbors, calling 911, etc. And also, if you think about it, who is willing to spend 3 years in jail and go on trial facing the death penality over an accident? She would have "come clean" within the first week if this was the case. She couldn't though, because she would have had to tell them where her body was and in her mind the cause of death would have been obvious.

and as far as the chloroform, i believe that was meant for GA and CA, lol...

who knows, lol... and hello by the way, its nice to meet you!!!! :great:

 

[katydid23]

Snipped with all due respect -

that's why I believe she drowned and was discovered a good deal of time later in a state that proved she didn't slip away in a split second but rather that she had drowned and remained in the pool for some time...thus making Casey guilty of neglect. Something she couldn't admit. Caylee perhaps was obviously gone beyond the point of summoning 911 for resuscitation. So it was a matter of "what do I do with the body" rather than "someone help !" So she quickly thinks "shovel"....takes the body out of the pool...that's too much work/too obvious whatever...so she puts her in the trunk. Casey is trying to come up with a story while little Caylee is in the trunk (loose hair) and decides in that moment the imaginanny is the culprit - grabs the bags, duct tape and Zanny becomes a killer. She only later becomes a kidnapper when a month goes by without anyone finding the body.

of course this is all wild guesses but it makes sense more to me than a MOTY snapping and chloroforming a kid to sleep.

It is a valid theory, but it may not garner her much sympathy and she may end up with 25 to life anyway. If the child accidentally drowned, due to negligence, and she decided to wrap the dead child's face in duct tape and 3 garbage bags, throw her in the trunk, and then be giggling, flirting and renting movies a few hours later??? [ After first taking hundreds of pictures of her child off her computer and her Myspace. ]The jury will see her Blockbuster date night video and be told how the 'staging' of the body was done a few hours previously. And that the baby's body was sitting in the trunk while she was buying snacks for the romantic movie night.

Accident or no accident, the callous, coldhearted way she treated the body,to even be able to grab that little angelic face and wrap it three times in duct tape, and put her in GARBAGE bags. The jury will be disgusted, accident or not.

And then, once her parents finally learn that the child is missing, she strings them along in a cruel wicked way, telling them the child is being taken care of and will be home on her birthday, if everyone will just chill out. TIMER35

This ice cold witch had her parents throw Caylee a birthday party, and they made her favorite meal, and they actually hoped against hope she was coming home. And all the while Casey was just biding her time, waiting for the DNA evidence and clues to waste away.

Add to that, her sick plans to point the finger at others, for the 'accident', and then accuse them of kidnapping /murder.

SORRY. Even if it was a drowning, the way she behaved, and disrespected the body, and showed no remorse, tortured her family, lied to LE and her friends, stole from those closest to her, attempted to have others take the blame....LIFE in Prison, NO PAROLE. imoo

 

[UESwifey]

Snipped with all due respect -

that's why I believe she drowned and was discovered a good deal of time later in a state that proved she didn't slip away in a split second but rather that she had drowned and remained in the pool for some time...thus making Casey guilty of neglect. Something she couldn't admit. Caylee perhaps was obviously gone beyond the point of summoning 911 for resuscitation. So it was a matter of "what do I do with the body" rather than "someone help !" So she quickly thinks "shovel"....takes the body out of the pool...that's too much work/too obvious whatever...so she puts her in the trunk. Casey is trying to come up with a story while little Caylee is in the trunk (loose hair) and decides in that moment the imaginanny is the culprit - grabs the bags, duct tape and Zanny becomes a killer. She only later becomes a kidnapper when a month goes by without anyone finding the body.

of course this is all wild guesses but it makes sense more to me than a MOTY snapping and chloroforming a kid to sleep.

I appreciate your thoughts, but IMO ICA loves herself way too much to sit in jail for 3 years to go to trial and possibly be put to death or spend her life in jail if it was just an accident. She would have given that story way back when and been charged with a lot less. That's why I believe if anything else had happened other than she killed Caylee in a rage or if she had help from another person, she would have said so at this point.

 

[darnudes]

In all the theories about the duct tape none of them negate the fact that in the beginning ICA stated in her initial statement to LE that

"Zenaida never made an attempt to explain why Caylee is no longer in Orlando, or if she is ever going to bring her home."

Later on as she was being told constantly by her parents and brother that when Caylee is found we will be able to sort this all out and get you out of jail. ICA's story changes and Caylee is then

"close to home, or local, or at places familiar to us"

ICA had to work out a way for Caylee to be found where she could still blame it on the Nanny and she, ICA, would still not be guilty of anything. ICA knew what state Caylee was in and was able to weave her story accordingly.

This is the only thing that makes sense to me, at first there is no way that ICA could allow Caylee to be found, then when it clear that she was never going to get out of jail until Caylee was found she dropped all the hints - ICA knew she would be able to blame the duct tape on the Nanny.

That change in ICA's story has finally convinced me that there was one reason and one reason only for the duct tape and that was to silence and kill Caylee, no other explanation makes sense to me.

 

[crucibelle]

Didn't the ME state it in her autopsy report?

I think the actual statement was "before decomposition", not "before death". The way I interpreted the report, is that the tape was applied before decomp of the soft tissues/muscles that held the mandible in place. There is some difference in opinion on this, I know, so I will wait to hear Dr. G's testimony and hopefully she will explain. JMO.

 

[BigMomma]

I think if you listen to the excited utterances of Cindy on that 911 tape, you would be hard pressed to believe that was fake/acting on her part.

George's first interviews with LE also ring very true (to me). The parental unit's lying comes later after Casey is back at the home and infected them.

But why did it take her 31 days, then smelling and cleaning the car, then calling Amy after coming home from work, then 3 attempts to 911. Yes, I do think it was an act to get the darn stories straight for whoevers benefit. I lash out at them all because they all ARE responsible and they all lied, especially ICA, should have never left her baby-PERIOD! She was the responsible person to watch her child, no matter what and she failed. She was very irresponsible-men and good times over her child. Nuts on that.