Is George lying?

[Kentjbkent]

:welcome5:

bbm ~ What's wacky about that is to throw KC under the bus but then almost immediately go into coverup mode for her after doing so.

And when you think about it....even wackier that when KC concocted this story about the day Caylee supposedly drowned, why didn't she alter the story enough to complete exhonerate herself from any responsibility?

The story relayed by Baez was that GA and ICA were in the house together when GA asked "Where's Caylee?" and they proceeded to look for her. ICA only implicated George as the one who FOUND her....and was first to suggest COVERING UP...

ICA could have just as easily removed herself from the situation by stating that GA was watching Caylee play outside, but that HE left the area, Caylee got in the pool and drowned and then GA "forced" ICA to go along with his plan of "cover up" to save HIS butt.....

But then I guess none of ICA's stories or lies ever made real sense in the past....

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I think it is a mistake if the state tries to keep any of the prior behavior of George and Cindy and Lee out of the case, as I think some, at least, will come out and then it will look like the state was hiding things from the jury. It is hard to believe that anyone living in the Orlando area, including the jurors, remained unaware of the behavior of the Anthony family over much of the previous 2+ years anyway. But it is never a good idea to "rehab" a witness to the point of having to CYA constantly to make sure you don't head down the wrong road. There is a lot of baggage with these three.

BBM: This is a very valid point ... and I agree -- there is a LOT of baggage with the A's.

The SA handled the GA and CA very carefully when they were called to testify, especially with GA due to the "allegations" made by the DT in the OS.

I am sure the DT will bring out the behaviors of GA, CA and LA when they present their case since the SA handled them as "victims" and the A's have not gone along with the DT's "defense". But I am certain that the SA will try to "downplay" the "negatives" that will come out about the A's ...

Another thing that comes to mind: the DT tried to get GA's grand jury testimony for possible impeachment -- but JP ruled no change in testimony.

It is going to be very interesting to see what happens when the 3 A's are re-called to the stand by the DT ... "very interesting" ...

:cow::cow::cow:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Nite all. My eyes are closing so I can't even finish this thread (note to self - left off on previous page).

Tomorrow is court again. Rest up!

 

[Kentjbkent]

I personally think that any lying, misconstruing, or fabricating of details by either of the Anthony grandparents were an attempt to soften the image of KC....we now know just how evil she is...I think they were attempting to portray her generally in a better light than she deserved...

 

[katydid23]

One problem here is that River told LE in her depo that GA had shared with her that Caylee's death was an accident that went out of control.

How would GA know that? Also for how long did GA know that? Upon knowing that, why didn't GA go directly to the police and tell them what he knew?

There's always another piece to the puzzle that complicates drawing a sound conclusion. Should we dismiss what River told the police?

Someone posted upstream that George told River that he 'thought' it was an accident. And most people assume it was an accident so it is no surprise that he would say that too. I am sure he would think it was an accident. He knew she had issues but I do not think he believed she was capable of murdering her baby. And even if he had suspicions, I doubt he would share them with people he barely knew.

 

[RR0004]

I don't assume it was an accident. That ship sailed a long time ago. You know who will validate George's behavior- the good, bad, and the ugly- Tim Miller. He will be George's voice. I couldn't think of a more credible witness.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Took the day off so had to start at the beginning of these posts and read them all before I could comment again.

Okay, let me see now, would George be lying about what he remembers about the day he found out his precious grand daughter had been missing for 31 days and his daughter was arrested for lying to the LE and for child neglect? Hmmm..

And after three years of hell, seven weeks ago he is told it was he who discovered the body of Caylee and disposed of it somehow with Roy Kronk, AND he's been accused of abusing his daughter ICA since she was eight. And then he gets up on the stand, and we dislike the tone of voice he used or that he looked down and paused before he answered the questions from a lawyer he despises? Plus he is heavily medicated?

I broke out laughing when I heard Richard Hornsby say the thought George may be holding back or lying because he spoke in a monotone....I respect Mr. Hornsby a great deal but....:banghead:

Over and over we say that Cindy and George impeded the investigation. Yet in court it's clear that the gathering of evidence the LE did had little or nothing to do with what CA and GA did or said. We see a steady gathering of evidence other lawyers call "meticulous" - and no slowdown at all in the prosecution of ICA.

I've said it before and I'd like to one more time if posters will bear with me. It is my belief that Cindy and George's attitudes offended our moral sense of how parents "should" have behaved. We've been outraged by their treatment of innocent people involved in this crime. But I think it's time we separate our view of their behaviour and the prosecution's case against ICA. The two things have very little to do with each other.

logicalgirl, I usually read your posts and nod in agreement with an admiring smile on my face ~ all the way to the thank you button. I have to disagree with a portion of this one though because I think George and Cindy did complicate the investigation. If I have to give examples I would start with the fact that they shouldn't have taken the car home and cleaned it or its contents. (Imagine the difference in the route the investigation would have taken had LE been immediately called to the tow yard!) The examples could go on and on. . . . and all of their lies had to be double checked and cost the state precious and expensive time in establishing their case.

So I can't imagine how their outrageous behavior could be considered a separate issue from the prosecutions's case. True, the state persevered and has a strong case but, imo, it was in spite of the Anthonys' ineffective attempts to do more disruption.

I can't give them a pass simply because they failed in their attempts, if that's what you were suggesting. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post?

 

[Robinez]

George filed for divorce on December 29, 2005 and the divorce was formally dismissed on November 28, 2007. But according to the divorce case file, it would appear that by Nov. 1, 2006 the divorce had been assigned "deactivated." So, I think George and Cindy were likely separated for a period of about 9 or10 months, reconciled, but didn't ask for the divorce to be dismissed for a year. It makes sense that they didn't immediately dismiss the divorce, giving it a year after they reconciled to see if they could work things out.

It could also mean that it was a smokescreen so that there would be less income in the home ( on paper ) and ICA would be able to collect aid.

This brings me to something else I have alway's wondered. If ICA has supposedly been working for Universal, wouldn't she get a W-2 and claim Caylee as a dependant? Her Mom never asked her about this? Did she allow her Mom to just go ahead and claim Caylee so she didn't have to deal with the pretend job situation?

TC, Robin

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Based on the fact that we have threads dedicated to the lies and inconsistencies of the entire Anthony family I don't have much faith that George (or Cindy) can afford to tell the whole truth without perjuring themselves. I think they will tell what they can while trying to keep themselves out of legal hot water. They are almost in the same place they were before they realized that Casey not only murdered their grandchild but is also implicating them in the act. So, imo, yes they will still be tweaking the truth to their advantage. It's just that their motive has changed. They will take that same circuitous trip to truth for themselves now instead of for Casey. I wish I could believe they would do it for Caylee.

 

[donnam]

I think that ICA caused a lot of chaos in the Anthony home. No doubt it caused marital problems for GA and CA. ICA was and is a spoiled brat with parents that enabled her, mostly CA. ICA was living "the good life". Partying etc. for a long time. She never went to college but instead got pregnant wthout even the parents having a clue who the father of the baby is. We are led to believe that this was all okie dokie in the Anthony home. I don't believe that for a minute.
GA and CA stepped up and took care of Caylee and did everything they could to provide her with a loving home. However there was still that big elephant in the room called Casey who was still living the good life. The endless line of boyfriends or friends with benefits, the partying, the fake job, etc. How can somebody fake having a job for a couple of years? Where was she getting the money to party, drive a car, and have a cell phone? I think CA continued to enable ICA with her lifestyle and provided money and looked the other way. With Caylee ICA now had the power in the home. Caylee was leverage. You don't give me what I want then I will take the baby away from you. Hence the fights, drama and chaos. ICA stealing from family caused fights in the house yet CA couldn't do much or ICA would take their beloved Caylee away. As nutty as I think CA is and as nutless as I think GA is at least they adored Caylee and provided a stable and loving home for her.

As ICA's partying, fake work, stealing spiraled out of control so did the tension in the home. GA was probably on CA's case about it and CA probably told him to keep his nose out of it. GA knows way more than he is letting on. He knew ICA was a troubled daughter but could do nothing as his wife continued to enable her.

I believe that there were arguements in the home and I believe there was a big one on the 15th over ICA stealing money. The fight escalated and ICA left with Caylee and told CA that they would never see Caylee again (MOO here). ICA was backed into a corner. Her line of credit was cut off by CA, CA refused to babysit, and she had nowhere to go and no real source of income. Tony didn't want Caylee hanging around the apartment. I think Caylee was killed out of anger and desperation after the fight with CA. Without Caylee then Casey could go and live the good life with Tony without her parents on her back. Faking a kidnapping would make ICA look like a victim. Only the story was never thought out properly because the act of getting rid of Caylee wasn't a long planned out event. I think the murder was not an accident at all...no leaving Caylee in the car overnight etc. I think it all happened out of anger on the 15th without thinking too much to the future. The duct tape to me shows intent to kill and therefore first degree murder.

I digress...
Yes I believe GA is lying but not about abuse and not about an accidental drowning. GA is lying because he knew early on before this murder ever happened his daughter was out of control and when she got herself into a heap of trouble he along with CA did everything they could to keep the nanny story alive and direct the guilt at another person even as the evidence was piling up on ICA (largest run on sentence ever).

Now the whole family is locked into their early statements and depositions and it would be very difficult for their credibility to come out now and tell the whole truth. We will never hear it.

BBM
I agree 100 percent!!!!!!!!!

 

[Robinez]

I think it is a mistake if the state tries to keep any of the prior behavior of George and Cindy and Lee out of the case, as I think some, at least, will come out and then it will look like the state was hiding things from the jury. It is hard to believe that anyone living in the Orlando area, including the jurors, remained unaware of the behavior of the Anthony family over much of the previous 2+ years anyway. But it is never a good idea to "rehab" a witness to the point of having to CYA constantly to make sure you don't head down the wrong road. There is a lot of baggage with these three.

Hi,

I am from Pinellas County. I now live north of there. Go Gators <hint> Anyway, I have been following this case closely and yes, so have the media in this area because of the fairly close proximity.

That said, I was surprised when it was announced that they were getting the jury pool from my old stomping grounds through elementary and High school. I thought that they would go further north.

If the people I have spoken to from Pinellas county are any indication of the jury pool they have no clue about what those people do. I started with my Dad. Nope, he doesn't know them. But he asked if they might be "the two bros on Top Chef"? The Anthony's?

I asked 2 GF's and 1 of my Mom's friend's. 2 GF's said they have seen her on tv. The perp walk, said she struts, one asked if she drowned her child, but otherwise, they don't know anything. Mom's friend asked if it was the druggies that lost their kid..Haileigh..

Couldn't ask Mom, I have already talked to her about it

I think they will be ok with the Pinellas County jury. The demographic is the same so she will certainly be tried by her peers and it is apparent to me anyway that they haven't been bombarded by news reports like the Orlando area is/was. And that is another reason why it was a good idea to go to another county to gather a jury.

Just as an aside, I think HHBP is too cool for school.

TC, Robin

 

[Leila]

But 'suspected' and 'knew' are two different things. And when something that horrifying is staring you in the face, it is really hard to know what to believe.

One night, very late, I was fast asleep, and got a call from my 17 yr old son. I answered and heard the scariest thing I ever heard as a parent. " Mom, I just got in a really bad accident. I can't breathe..."

me:Where are you??????

C: On the fwy.

me: What exit?????

C. I don't know...CLICK/

I call back and it goes straight to voice mail. My husband and daughter were away on a trip so I jumped in the car and sped to the 101 fwy. I was shaking so hard and so frightened because my mind kept going to a bad place. I drove a couple of miles South and then turned around and went North. Coming around a bend I came upon my nightmare. Flashing lights, cops and ambulances. And even then, I held onto the hope that my son was okay. The fwy was closed except for one lane, which was moving slowly. I still clung to the belief that he was fine. Then I saw his truck. It was smashed like a pancake. The front end had accordianed into the side of a large Buick. My heart was pounding out of my chest, but I kept clinging to the fact that he had called and spoken to me. That kept me going. I pulled over and talked to the Hwy Patrolman and told him it was my sons truck. He looked worried and again, I should have fallen apart right there. But I held on to the tiniest bit of faith that he was okay. I am looking right at his totaled truck and two ambulances parked alongside the scene. But I held tight to my belief.

The cop walked me over to the ambulance, and there was my son. Sitting up,
smiling, talking to the young female EMT. That is when my knees buckled. But I had been right. Against all odds, my tiny bit of hope stayed with me.
His air bag saved him and the major damage was on the passenger side and he had already dropped his gf off before the accident. The other car was driven by a drunk driver who spun out right in front of my kid, who had no time to stop and hit the drunk driver broadside.

The point of this story? I as a parent did NOT want to believe the evidence before my eyes which indicated my son was horribly injured. There was plenty of evidence to indicate that, but I kept hoping it was going to be okay. Thank goodness it was. But it helps me understand how George overlooked what he did. Wow, this trunk smells. But hey, there is garbage here, that must be why. And my wife has spoken to Casey, and the baby is just fine... It was a natural reaction for him as a parent to hold onto hope, imoo.

(((Katydid))) I'm sorry to hear about what happened with you son. I read that first paragraph, thinking the outcome was going to be terrible and I was identifying as I live close to the 101 freeway and could picture it. I'm so glad your son was okay!!!

What you experienced clearly demonstrates how we, as humans, cling to hope even in the face of evidence that would tell us otherwise.

I can see how GA could justify what he was experiencing. Casey had spoken or sent a text almost every day telling them that she and Caylee were just fine and even telling them about the fun Caylee was having. So George reasoned that there had to be another explanation for why the car smelled so bad.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

It could also mean that it was a smokescreen so that there would be less income in the home ( on paper ) and ICA would be able to collect aid.

This brings me to something else I have alway's wondered. If ICA has supposedly been working for Universal, wouldn't she get a W-2 and claim Caylee as a dependant? Her Mom never asked her about this? Did she allow her Mom to just go ahead and claim Caylee so she didn't have to deal with the pretend job situation?

TC, Robin

I have wondered about this too. I've also wondered who paid for Caylee's birth...obviously Casey wasn't getting benefits from her "job." And where did Caylee's medical insurance come from? Cindy?

 

[crucibelle]

Holy cow, what if KC was looking up those things to protect herself in case GA approached her again?
I never made this connection before.

I have wondered about this, myself, because KC also looked up "self defense" among all those other terms.

 

[crucibelle]

I'm with you as I've contemplated the same thing many times. I just didn't hear JB claim that (that GA disposed) in his opening statement. He shocked us with the Kronk theory - whatever that is. Can't wait to hear that one - NOT!

You are right, JB never said George disposed of the body... not directly, anyhow. All he said was that KC asked George for help and he "helped her". I suppose that could be taken as an insinuation that George is the one who disposed of the body.

 

[crucibelle]

A kidnapping does not explain the decomp smell. I believe there was a plan in place to get rid of the Pontiac.
After the car was discovered in the towyard, Cindy texted KC something along the lines of 'call me, big problem'.
Later Cindy asked KC 'why didn't she pick up the car?' Iirc CA asked KC this in a jailhouse tape.
CA's tone was not asking KC why KC didn't pick up the car - some other 'she' person was to pick up the car. :waitasec:

The plan was to get rid of the Pontiac, not to have it end up at the local towyard.

I heard that, too. I wonder who the "she" is that was supposed to be picking up the car?

ps - I love your posts, Woe.be.gone!

 

[katydid23]

(((Katydid))) I'm sorry to hear about what happened with you son. I read that first paragraph, thinking the outcome was going to be terrible and I was identifying as I live close to the 101 freeway and could picture it. I'm so glad your son was okay!!!

What you experienced clearly demonstrates how we, as humans, cling to hope even in the face of evidence that would tell us otherwise.

I can see how GA could justify what he was experiencing. Casey had spoken or sent a text almost every day telling them that she and Caylee were just fine and even telling them about the fun Caylee was having. So George reasoned that there had to be another explanation for why the car smelled so bad.

Thanks, but it was a blessing in disguise. He totaled his truck but only came away with cuts and bruises. But it slowed him down and he is a much more cautious driver now,thank goodness.

I cannot second guess George's decisions during that frightening time. I bet the entire thing was like a bad dream, a nightmare, and they made many missteps, but it is hard to know how we would respond in their circumstances.imoo

 

[claudicici]

I have wondered about this, myself, because KC also looked up "self defense" among all those other terms.

wow,that is so true,I never thought about it but it would make sense.I still do not rule out the sexual abuse at all.
There's something HUGE that GA is not revealing about himself.During the jailhouse tapes I thought I heard him say something about "that's how it was when he was in that situation" Was GA ever incarcerated?
I think the whole truth will never come out but there is a lot we'll never know IMO.
Oh and I agree with Crucibelle,Woe,your posts are incredible,you have so much knowledge and insight of the case and for some reason you are able to keep up and recall all these details !

 

[crucibelle]

No, I do not believe George helped Casey dispose of little Caylee on the morning of the 16th. I do believe he did days later because of the state of decomposition. I do think he and Casey thought up Caylee being disposed of making it look like a kidnapping was the best thing to do at that point.

George was not an emotional guy for the 10 years he was in LE. You cannot be. He saw and dealt with a lot really bad and morbid things, IMO. He also came to know what decomposition smells like. If he is so emotional now, it is because the horrible things that happened were personal this time.

I think George discovered little Caylees' body in the trunk of the vehicle when Casey was at the house the afternoon she gave him the gas cans from the trunk. He was suspicious of why Casey did not want him to look in the trunk for the tire block, IMO. That was days after Casey had been avoiding them. I believe when George did discover Caylees' body in the trunk that Casey told him it was an accident and she did not know what to do and panicked. They could not call 911 and claim it had been an accident when Caylees' body was decomposing in the trunk. The kidnapping story was then hatched, IMO.

I do not believe that George ever molested Casey, and I do not believe he was in any way responsible for Caylees' death/murder. What I do honestly believe is that he did cover for Casey and did help dispose of Caylee. I do not for one minute think that Casey would have even gone to the trouble of placing Caylee in any protective wrapping whatsoever. I also believe the duct tape was placed on little Caylee to bolster the kidnapping story.

All of this is just IMO, but is what I do honestly think.

LaLaw2000 -- The theory you have here is fascinating, and it does make a lot of sense to me. I wanted to ask you a question -- what do you make of the jail visit tapes? George is very convincing on there that he knew nothing of what was going on, and kept asking KC to talk to more people about what happened to Caylee, etc. Do you think he was just acting because he knew the visits were being recorded?

 

[Sammiejam]

I heard that, too. I wonder who the "she" is that was supposed to be picking up the car?

ps - I love your posts, Woe.be.gone!

CA was talking about Zanny. And at that point she thought Zanny was code for numerous other people. She was *trying* to talk in code to ICA.