Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #10

[Cryptic]

I’m sure there were peaceful moments, but there were also moments where a whole crowd was chanting for “intifada”. That’s hardly peaceful. There was also a lot of vandalism.

Intifada refers the "rising" where enough stone throwing Palestinians forced the Israelis into making some concessions. It is not a call for terrorism per se.

In the end, the Irish slogan: "Oppression breeds resistance" has a measure of truth to it. That truth can, of course, be distorted and serve as a disguised call for terrorism.

Continued (key word) construction of new settlements / dispossession of Palestinians on the West Bank can be seen as a form of oppression by some. Regardless, it appears that even the US is getting tired of it:

U.S. issues rare rebuke of Israel over West Bank settlements

Israel’s ambassador to Washington was asked to come to the State Department on Tuesday, where the U.S. protested changes to Israeli law that would allow new settlement building in the northern West Bank.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Momoffourboys]

"We were in an old woman's house. A hammer. They just bludgeoned her with a hammer."More than a month has passed since the October 7th massacre - ZAKA volunteers are still searching for missing people.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1724200475313004942

 

[Brightchaser47]

I dont think Israel would, but the Netanyahu administration might.

Prior to 10/07, Netanyahu was accused by some Israelis for needlessly (key word) provoking Palestinians in particular and Muslims in general. Despite all the "get tougher and ever vigilant" rhetoric, he then fails to anticipate a massive surprise attack.

As @Dotta stated, "hostages are symbols of a nation". Netanyahu is under alot of pressure to show at least some good news despite his failings. Needs for a long, sniper / IED filled occupation of Gaza are not really good news. Neither would the destruction of HAMAS if the hostages are killed.

But.... at least some hostages released would be good news.

I see your point, but that's not really fair to the hostages or their families, imo.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Hamas has command node under Al-Shifa hospital, US official says​

CNN —
A US official with knowledge of American intelligence says Hamas has a command node under the Al-Shifa hospital, uses fuel intended for it and its fighters regularly cluster in and around Gaza’s largest hospital.

The information comes after comments made Sunday by a top White House official that Hamas is using hospitals and civilian facilities.

“You can see even from open-source reporting that Hamas does use hospitals, along with a lot of other civilian facilities, for command-and-control, for storing weapons, for housing its fighters,” National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said on CNN’s State of the Union. “Without getting into this specific hospital or that specific claim, this is Hamas’ track record, both historically and in this conflict.”

more:https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/13/poli... knowledge,and around Gaza's largest hospital.

 

[Cryptic]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>
HAMAS, in some name, and in some form, is going to exist for a very long time no matter the strength of the IDF.
But, I agree, they can only be uhmmm..... "down sized" by military action.

Given the hostages, future Israeli casualties, and possible conditions on future US support (no more blind gifts of cash and weapons), the definition of "gotten rid of" or "sufficiently down sized" could get pretty political.

In short, I think things are going to get uhmmm.... "complex" and be subject to change- alot of change.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I wonder how many hostages are still alive. "Up to 70" may be all who are still alive.

imo

I think that number might be the number of women and children.

RSBM
I hope you're both wrong...

 

[JennieM]

Hamas has command node under Al-Shifa hospital, US official says​

CNN —
A US official with knowledge of American intelligence says Hamas has a command node under the Al-Shifa hospital, uses fuel intended for it and its fighters regularly cluster in and around Gaza’s largest hospital.

The information comes after comments made Sunday by a top White House official that Hamas is using hospitals and civilian facilities.

“You can see even from open-source reporting that Hamas does use hospitals, along with a lot of other civilian facilities, for command-and-control, for storing weapons, for housing its fighters,” National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said on CNN’s State of the Union. “Without getting into this specific hospital or that specific claim, this is Hamas’ track record, both historically and in this conflict.”

more:https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/13/politics/al-shifa-hospital-us-intelligence/index.html#:~:text=A US official with knowledge,and around Gaza's largest hospital.

CIA declined to comment. CNN has not seen the intelligence cited by the US official.

November 13, 2023 Israel-Hamas war

Conditions at the Al-Shifa hospital, the largest in Gaza, are "catastrophic" as essential units have collapsed, the facility's director told CNN.

edition.cnn.com

 

[JennieM]

3m ago
Jordan’s King Abdullah has warned that any scenario which includes the reoccupation of parts of Gaza by Israel will worsen the crisis and that continued Israeli “violations” in the West Bank and Jerusalem would “push the region towards an explosion”.

In comments reported by official news agency Petra, the king said “a military or security solution” would not succeed and said the conflict had originated in the occupation and the deprivation of rights of Palestinian people.

At a meeting with senior Jordanian politicians including former prime ministrers and the Senate president, he said Gaza must not be separated from the rest of the Palestinian territories and called for an end to the war and the resumption of a political process based on a two-state solution.

“Any other path will end in failure and lead to further cycles of violence and destruction,” he said.

Jordan's King Abdullah II speaks at his meeting with top officials in Amman on Monday.Photograph: Royal Hashemite Court/Reuters

Others at the meeting “noted that the King has foreseen and repeatedly warned against the dangers witnessed today as a result of Israeli violations,” Petra reported.

Jordan is home to a large population of Palestinian refugees and their descendants who fear Israel could expel Palestinians en masse from the Israeli-occupied West Bank, where Israeli settler attacks on Palestinian inhabitants have surged since Hamas’s 7 October attack on southern Israel.

Israel-Hamas war: Brazil’s president accuses Israel of ‘killing innocent people’ – as it happened

This blog has closed. You can see all our Israel-Hamas war coverage here and see our latest full report on the conflict here

www.theguardian.com

 

[PrairieWind]

Intifada refers the "rising" where enough stone throwing Palestinians forced the Israelis into making some concessions. It is not a call for terrorism per se.

In the end, the Irish slogan: "Oppression breeds resistance" has a measure of truth to it. That truth can, of course, be distorted and serve as a disguised call for terrorism.

Continued (key word) construction of new settlements / dispossession of Palestinians on the West Bank can be seen as a form of oppression by some. Regardless, it appears that even the US is getting tired of it:

U.S. issues rare rebuke of Israel over West Bank settlements

Israel’s ambassador to Washington was asked to come to the State Department on Tuesday, where the U.S. protested changes to Israeli law that would allow new settlement building in the northern West Bank.

www.nbcnews.com

That is the West Bank, not Gaza. PA/Fatah hasn't murdered and raped and kidnapped a thousand people recently.
Intifada use means to Israelis that use of suicide bombers against civilians. Its original use might have mean "rising" but it means terrorism now and the people using it know exactly what it means.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Intifada refers the "rising" where enough stone throwing Palestinians forced the Israelis into making some concessions. It is not a call for terrorism per se.

In the end, the Irish slogan: "Oppression breeds resistance" has a measure of truth to it. That truth can, of course, be distorted and serve as a disguised call for terrorism.

Continued (key word) construction of new settlements / dispossession of Palestinians on the West Bank can be seen as a form of oppression by some. Regardless, it appears that even the US is getting tired of it:

U.S. issues rare rebuke of Israel over West Bank settlements

Israel’s ambassador to Washington was asked to come to the State Department on Tuesday, where the U.S. protested changes to Israeli law that would allow new settlement building in the northern West Bank.

www.nbcnews.com

Respectfully, The intifadas were more than stone throwing and turned quite violent, especially the second.

And I agree 100% about the settlements. Just no. No excuses. No discussions.

I, however, don’t believe Hamas gives a hoot about settlements. Their solution is one state. Without Jews.

What were the intifadas?

They were two Palestinian uprisings against Israel.

www.vox.com

 

[Momoffourboys]

Gaza hospitals “must be protected”. US National Security Council spokesman John Kirby explains what that means, and it’s not what you think >>>

https://twitter.com/x/status/1724211191591964931

 

[Cryptic]

That is the West Bank, not Gaza. PA/Fatah hasn't murdered and raped and kidnapped a thousand people recently.
Intifada use means to Israelis that use of suicide bombers against civilians. Its original use might have mean "rising" but it means terrorism now and the people using it know exactly what it means.

I can agree that intifada also included acts of terrorism. I dont know what it means to the protesters. I imagine that as there are many protestors, the term could mean many different things.

I am, however, firmly convinced that there is no military solution to this conflict (no matter how strong the IDF is) and that there needs to fundamental changes to the way Israel conducts business in regards to the Palestinians.

Any solution is going to be complex, will not please everybody, and will not be perfect.

But..... Israeli policies of "Hey, we just discovered more "abandoned" or "under utilized" land on the West Bank" can not continue. Neither can... "Have another creative forced buy out coming up.... Online offers- well, by Israelis, are accepted"

 

[Baby baby Jane]

RSBM
In all fairness, the IDF must be very selective in what "evidence" they share publicly, so as not to reveal the extent of their knowledge and capabilities to the enemy (imo).

Is there another reason IDF would focus on a hospital as a strategic target? Other than Hamas-HQ is under it? I can’t think of one.

 

[Dotta]

But..... Israeli policies of "Hey, we just discovered more "abandoned" or "under utilized" land on the West Bank" can not continue. Neither can... "Have another creative forced buy out coming up.... Online offers are accepted"

True.
To antagonize Palestinians by (illegal) "land grabs" did nothing to PEACE process.

Not to mention world's perception of Israel.

JMO

 

[Cryptic]

Respectfully, The intifadas were more than stone throwing and turned quite violent, especially the second.

And I agree 100% about the settlements. Just no. No excuses. No discussions.

I, however, don’t believe Hamas gives a hoot about settlements. Their solution is one state. Without Jews.

We have alot in common. I can agree that the level of violence in Intifadas ranged from stone throwing to terrorism. Likewise, I am glad you feel that way about settlments.

In regards to a single state sans the other group, HAMAS might not be the only one advocating that. Netanyahu's minister of police once displayed a photo of an Israeli terrorist in his home and took it down reluctantly.

Going more direct, this Israeli minister wants to expel all Palestinians from Gaza. My guess is that the eventual phase two would involve the West Bank: Expel all Palestinians from Gaza, recommends Israeli gov't ministry

Likewise, settlement construction can be seen as: "No, we would never advocate a state with out Palestinians- well, not directly. But we will pressure them to uhmm... "voluntarily depart". This then yield more land "abandonments".

 

[Leve]

We have alot in common. I can agree that the level of violence in Intifadas ranged from stone throwing to terrorism. Likewise, I am glad you feel that way about settlments.

In regards to a single state sans the other group, HAMAS might not be the only one advocating that. Netanyahu's minister of police once displayed a photo of an Israeli terrorist in his home and took it down reluctantly.

Going more direct, this Israeli minister wants to expel all Palestinians from Gaza. My guess is that the eventual phase two would involve the West Bank: Expel all Palestinians from Gaza, recommends Israeli gov't ministry

Likewise, settlement construction can be seen as: "No, we would never advocate a state with out Palestinians- well, not directly. But we will pressure them to uhmm... "voluntarily depart". This then yield more land "abandonments".

If the Palestinian leaders had declared War to take back the land (settlements), dropped flyers giving warning to civilians, then attacked the Israeli army guarding the land this would be an entirely different conversation/war.

But that is not what happened.

 

[JennieM]

Israel supporting family of hostage after Hamas death claim​

Nick Beake
Reporting from Jerusalem

UnknownCopyright
Noa Marciano is seen in a hostage video circulating on social media

The chief spokesman of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) says the hearts of the Israeli military go out to the family of a 19-year-old woman, Noa Marciano, who was kidnapped by Hamas on 7 October.

A video has been circulating on social media in which Marciano identifies herself and says she has been held for four days. This would date the recording to 10 or 11 October.

There is the normal assumption - as with all hostage videos - that the words are not her own and it was recorded under duress.

The footage then cuts to graphic images which appear to show the body of a young woman.

The Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas's military arm, says Marciano was killed in an Israeli air strike on 9 November.

There has been no confirmation from the Israeli military of her reported death.
IDF chief spokesman Daniel Hagari says they are supporting the Marciano family.
“A representative of the IDF came to the family's house and informed them about the publication of the video," says Hagari.

"Hamas continues to use psychological terror and behaves inhumanely, through stolen videos and photos, as it has done in the past,” the Israeli military spokesman adds.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67400490

 

[JennieM]

35s ago

The Israeli army has confirmed the identity of a soldier being held hostage by Hamas, after the armed wing of the Palestinian group published a video showing the young woman in captivity. The army said in a statement shortly after midnight on Tuesday:

Our hearts go out to the Marciano family, whose daughter, Noa, was brutally kidnapped by the Hamas terrorist organisation.
We are using all means, both intelligence and operational, to bring the hostages home.”

It was the first time the army has officially confirmed a hostage’s identity since Hamas gunmen abducted about 240 people when they stormed across the militarised border from Gaza on October 7. AFP reports further:

On Monday night, Hamas’ Ezzedine al-Qassam Brigades published a video of the soldier apparently reading a message in Hebrew in which she identified herself by name and identity card number and said she had been detained in Gaza for four days.
“An IDF (Israel Defense Forces) representative came to the family’s home and informed them of the video’s publication,” the army statement said.
“The Hamas terrorist organization continues to exploit psychological terrorism and act inhumanely, through videos and photos of the hostages, as done in the past.”

Israel-Hamas war live: Fuel shortage could stop aid delivery to Gaza, UN official warns; Biden calls for protection of al-Shifa hospital

Trucks transporting desperately needed aid through the Rafah crossing from Egypt could stop operations on Tuesday due to a lack of fuelIsrael-Hamas war

www.theguardian.com

 

[JennieM]

UK’s new foreign secretary discusses conflict with Blinken​

David Cameron, who was appointed the UK’s new foreign secretary on Monday, has spoken to his US counterpart, Antony Blinken, about the Israel-Gaza war.

According to a social media post from his new office, Cameron, a former British prime minister, and the US secretary of state discussed “Israel’s right to self-defence and the need for humanitarian pauses to allow the safe passage of aid into Gaza”.

They also expressed their support for Ukraine and reiterated the “strength and depth of the relationship between the UK and the US”.

The US state department noted that Blinken and Cameron had "underscored continuity in the U.S.-UK special relationship and its importance to regional and global security", Reuters news agency reports.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67400490

 

[Momoffourboys]

We have alot in common. I can agree that the level of violence in Intifadas ranged from stone throwing to terrorism. Likewise, I am glad you feel that way about settlments.

In regards to a single state sans the other group, HAMAS might not be the only one advocating that. Netanyahu's minister of police once displayed a photo of an Israeli terrorist in his home and took it down reluctantly.

Going more direct, this Israeli minister wants to expel all Palestinians from Gaza. My guess is that the eventual phase two would involve the West Bank: Expel all Palestinians from Gaza, recommends Israeli gov't ministry

Likewise, settlement construction can be seen as: "No, we would never advocate a state with out Palestinians- well, not directly. But we will pressure them to uhmm... "voluntarily depart". This then yield more land "abandonments".

IMO there is no comparison between Israeli gov’t and Hamas.
Israel doesn’t enter homes rape, butcher, incinerate people.

But again, just MO.