Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #10

[Friday Fan]

Oh my... well, I must admit this gives "even me" pause.

He's down the road from me.

He raises lots of funds for Israel, but has also said some anti-Semitic things.
He's a big fundraiser. What can I say?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/jewish-progressive-groups-fume-over-platforming-of-controversial-pastor-at-pro-israel-dc-rally/

Hagee: Pro-Israel, Anti-Semitic?

<b>The Nation:</b> Pastor John Hagee's Views Surprises Many, Including Joseph Lieberman

www.cbsnews.com

Cornerstone Church

William Martin reviews our places of worship.

www.texasmonthly.com

 

[Springb16]

​

Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi​

Anyone know if Rantisi Hospital was named after him?

Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I heard in a news report yesterday it was but can't find the link now so jmo

 

[Tony1902]

I’m not the individual you were replying to, and I mean no disrespect— has your thesis been peer reviewed and published?


Wikipedia is an approved source here, last I checked.

Yes, it’s called a thesis committee and then it goes to the Dean for another review. And the History Department head sent it to the Library of Congress. Published? No only a handful of people would read it. I don’t remember ever seeing an MA thesis published.

 

[mickey2942]

It really confuses me. Hamas steals from the people, builds weapons instead of electricity or water plants, puts Palestinian children at risk by having munitions stored in schools and hospitals. But some people want them to stay in power.

I think that it is important to realize that the culture of growing up in the Middle East, is absolutely enmeshed with the mentality of nationalism. Both sides of this conflict see themselves as the victims of the other side.

It is worrisome to me, that we are seeing more demonstrations in the United States.

Pro-Palestinian protesters march down Michigan Avenue as Northbrook demonstrators support Israel

Pro-Palestinian demonstrators marched through downtown Chicago on Sunday while others gathered to support Israel in the northern suburbs.

abc7chicago.com

As the holiday season is coming, it is time to be vigilant. See something, say something.

 

[Ilovemy3boys]

I cant provide absolute proof of anything- but neither can anybody else ("Cant prove a negative" concept)

But... I can provide an additional source. This one is from the United Nations: Palestinian Programme
Another from the British Government: chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/57a08c4be5274a31e0001112/JaberEdited.pdf

But....I, nor anybody else can "prove a negative".

Ok great. Since there’s no proof I think it’s best not to try to state it as fact because it reflects negatively on a specific group of people especially since we don’t really know them. THE PALESTINIANS

MOO
Also, I’d rather read the facts.

 

[IDK]

Yes, it’s called a thesis committee and then it goes to the Dean for another review. And the History Department head sent it to the Library of Congress. Published? No only a handful of people would read it. I don’t remember ever seeing an MA thesis published.

In that case, can you please provide a MSM published resource to back up your statement about Wikipedia? Thanks.

 

[MyBelle]

Correct— if the US asks Israel to de-escalate or stand down— there is absolutely no incentive for Israel to do so because they are already receiving billions of dollars in aid. With no strings attached, it appears.

Not all of us are ok with the funds being spent to kill/harm civilians.

BBM. Indeed, I think the majority of Americans want it to stop immediately.
JMO

www.nytimes.com/2023/11/14/us/politics/israel-biden-letter-gaza-cease-fire.html
More than 500 political appointees and staff members representing some 40 government agencies sent a letter to President Biden on Tuesday protesting his support of Israel in its war in Gaza.

The letter, part of growing internal dissent over the administration’s support of the war, calls on the president to seek an immediate cease-fire in the Gaza Strip and to push Israel to allow humanitarian aid into the territory.

 

[Momoffourboys]

This is really heartbreaking and very telling. Hamas is devastating so many lives.

Al Jazeera reporter cuts away from Gaza hospital patient revealing how Hamas hiding among the sick​

A clip from a recent Al Jazeera broadcast has gone viral, showing the Qatari network’s correspondent interviewing a patient at a Gaza hospital who complains in front of the camera that Hamas fighters are hiding among the sick in the medical center.

Before the elderly patient can continue speaking, the Al Jazeera correspondent moves away so that the message cannot continue to be heard on air.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/al-jazeera-reporter-cuts-away-from-gaza-hospital-patient-revealing-how-hamas-hiding-among-the-sick/

 

[PrairieWind]

BBM. Indeed, I think the majority of Americans want it to stop immediately.
JMO

www.nytimes.com/2023/11/14/us/politics/israel-biden-letter-gaza-cease-fire.html
More than 500 political appointees and staff members representing some 40 government agencies sent a letter to President Biden on Tuesday protesting his support of Israel in its war in Gaza.

The letter, part of growing internal dissent over the administration’s support of the war, calls on the president to seek an immediate cease-fire in the Gaza Strip and to push Israel to allow humanitarian aid into the territory.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/14/politics/former-biden-obama-officials-appreciation-israel-support/index.html

“As former Biden and Obama administration officials and campaign staff, we are writing to express our deep appreciation for your moral clarity, courageous leadership, and staunch support of Israel, one of our nation’s strongest allies, in the aftermath of the worst massacre of Jewish people in a single day since the Holocaust,”

 

[Momoffourboys]

"Anybody that cannot condemn 10/7 unequivocally does not understand that it is a war that was waged not just on Israel, not just on Jews, but actually on our shared civilization, on our shared humanity." - Israel's Special Envoy for Antisemitism Michal @CotlerWunsh

https://twitter.com/x/status/1724495972317765820

 

[Tony1902]

In that case, can you please provide a MSM published resource to back up your statement about Wikipedia?

You well know I can’t. I was only speaking about MY thesis. Which I researched through primary documents for two years slogging through field interviews, courthouse records, 9:5 and topo maps. None of the content of that topic had any of that research in it.

 

[justtrish]

This is really heartbreaking and very telling. Hamas is devastating so many lives.

Al Jazeera reporter cuts away from Gaza hospital patient revealing how Hamas hiding among the sick​

A clip from a recent Al Jazeera broadcast has gone viral, showing the Qatari network’s correspondent interviewing a patient at a Gaza hospital who complains in front of the camera that Hamas fighters are hiding among the sick in the medical center.

Before the elderly patient can continue speaking, the Al Jazeera correspondent moves away so that the message cannot continue to be heard on air.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/al-jazeera-reporter-cuts-away-from-gaza-hospital-patient-revealing-how-hamas-hiding-among-the-sick/

Well well well.. as many of us have said over and over again... Baffling that some still don't see it and continue to push the idea that Israel has surrounded hospitals and are cutting off supplies to civilians just because ?

 

[Vern]

In that case, can you please provide a MSM published resource to back up your statement about Wikipedia?

The irony in this first link:

Wikipedia:Don't cite Wikipedia on Wikipedia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wikipedia is not a reliable source for citations elsewhere on Wikipedia. As a user-generated source, it can be edited by anyone at any time, and any information it contains at a particular time could be vandalism, a work in progress, or simply incorrect.

So, even Wikipedia as a source notes that it shouldn't be used as a source.

No:

What’s Wrong with Wikipedia? | Harvard Guide to Using Sources

usingsources.fas.harvard.edu

Why You Cannot Use Wikipedia as an Academic Source

At the end of the day, Wikipedia is not suitable for academic work. Academic work requires primary or, at worst, secondary sources.

apuedge.com

Is Wikipedia a reliable source for academic research?

There’s some disagreement about whether Wikipedia can be considered a reliable source. Because it can be edited by anyone, many people argue that it’s

www.scribbr.com

Should you use Wikipedia as a credible resource? – Connors State College

connorsstate.edu

Is Wikipedia a credible source? - Paperpile

We all ❤ Wikipedia, but can you cite it in your research paper? No. Wikipedia is not a credible source, and here is why you should only use it for preliminary research.

paperpile.com

I once watched my professor go through the bibliographies of the abstracts we had to hand in for our in-progress research papers and lose their mind when they saw an intent to cite wikipedia by a fellow program member. Told to not to bother, that Jr High School students knew better, and made them restart from scratch on a whole new topic. Not fun to watch and probably less fun to be the individual involved.

 

[Sundog]

BBM. Palestinians shouldn't have to move to another country, I agree. There was similar animosity to all Muslims after 9/11.

imo, no country is a democracy if its government doesn't respect the separation of church and state.

JMO

Why Egypt and other Arab countries are unwilling to take in Palestinian refugees from Gaza

As desperate Palestinians in sealed-off Gaza try to find refuge under Israel’s relentless bombardment in retaliation for Hamas’ brutal Oct. 7 attack, many ask why neighboring Egypt or other Arab countries don’t take them in.

apnews.com

“All historical precedent points to the fact that when Palestinians are forced to leave Palestinian territory, they are not allowed to return back,” said H.A. Hellyer, a senior associate fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “Egypt doesn’t want to be complicit in ethnic cleansing in Gaza.”

Arab countries’ fears have only been stoked by the rise under Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of hard-right parties that talk in positive terms about removing Palestinians. Since the Hamas attack, the rhetoric has become less restrained, with some right-wing politicians and media commentators calling for the military to raze Gaza and drive out its inhabitants. One lawmaker said Israel should carry out a “new Nakba” on Gaza.
JMO

You don't think the UK is a democracy?

Separation of religion and state is a complex matter. Below is a good research study by the PEW Center on the degrees of separation of religion and state in countries around the world. As with most matters, it's complicated.

Edited to add link -

Many Countries Favor Specific Religions, Officially or Unofficially

Islam is the most common state religion, but many governments give privileges to Christianity.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Friday Fan]

The irony in this first link:

Wikipedia:Don't cite Wikipedia on Wikipedia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No:

What’s Wrong with Wikipedia? | Harvard Guide to Using Sources

usingsources.fas.harvard.edu

Why You Cannot Use Wikipedia as an Academic Source

At the end of the day, Wikipedia is not suitable for academic work. Academic work requires primary or, at worst, secondary sources.

apuedge.com

Is Wikipedia a reliable source for academic research?

There’s some disagreement about whether Wikipedia can be considered a reliable source. Because it can be edited by anyone, many people argue that it’s

www.scribbr.com

Should you use Wikipedia as a credible resource? – Connors State College

connorsstate.edu

Is Wikipedia a credible source? - Paperpile

We all ❤ Wikipedia, but can you cite it in your research paper? No. Wikipedia is not a credible source, and here is why you should only use it for preliminary research.

paperpile.com

I once watched my professor go through the bibliographies of the abstracts we had to hand in for our in-progress research papers and lose thier mind wen they saw an intent to cite wikipedia by a fellow program member. Told to not to bother and made them retart from scratch on a whole new topic. Not fun to watch and probably less fun to be the individual involved.

It's an accepted source on WS, to the best of my knowledge.

MS Media is often changed too etc.
MSM can be heavily edited.

I find Wikipedia reliable quite often.

Of course, it can't be used for research because it's cheating.
Wikipedia also has referenced sources which can be linked.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Well well well.. as many of us have said over and over again... Baffling that some still don't see it and continue to push the idea that Israel has surrounded hospitals and are cutting off supplies to civilians just because ?

Just let the civilians out. Come out and fight like the tough guys they were on 10/7. Hiding behind men, women and babies in a hospital like the pathetic monsters that they are.

 

[Leve]

Ok great. Since there’s no proof I think it’s best not to try to state it as fact because it reflects negatively on a specific group of people especially since we don’t really know them. THE PALESTINIANS

MOO
Also, I’d rather read the facts.

The Munich massacre, the Jordanian civil war after allowing Palestinian refugees into Jordan (they attempted to assassinate the king). Bunches and bunches of bombings, hijackings ect...

Palestinian political violence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And no, I don't hate all Palestinians. I actually feel really sorry for most. Generation after Generation of refugees live in "camps" - never achieving citizenship in any country.

 

[IDK]

The irony in this first link:

Wikipedia:Don't cite Wikipedia on Wikipedia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So, even Wikipedia as a source notes that it shouldn't be used as a source.

No:

What’s Wrong with Wikipedia? | Harvard Guide to Using Sources

usingsources.fas.harvard.edu

Why You Cannot Use Wikipedia as an Academic Source

At the end of the day, Wikipedia is not suitable for academic work. Academic work requires primary or, at worst, secondary sources.

apuedge.com

Is Wikipedia a reliable source for academic research?

There’s some disagreement about whether Wikipedia can be considered a reliable source. Because it can be edited by anyone, many people argue that it’s

www.scribbr.com

Should you use Wikipedia as a credible resource? – Connors State College

connorsstate.edu

Is Wikipedia a credible source? - Paperpile

We all ❤ Wikipedia, but can you cite it in your research paper? No. Wikipedia is not a credible source, and here is why you should only use it for preliminary research.

paperpile.com

I once watched my professor go through the bibliographies of the abstracts we had to hand in for our in-progress research papers and lose their mind when they saw an intent to cite wikipedia by a fellow program member. Told to not to bother and made them retart from scratch on a whole new topic. Not fun to watch and probably less fun to be the individual involved.

Thanks—I am well aware of the issues with using Wikipedia as a resource and I appreciate that you posted some links— that’s all I was asking the PP to do . We are supposed to back up our opinions with resources, unless we state IMO.

At least last time I checked….

 

[fred&edna]

I dont understand the context of your post, nor your line of reasoning.

Please read my posts. You will see that a significant majority have been pro Palestinian to varying degrees.

To illustrate that point, I dont really get alot of likes from @Vern and @Momoffourboys in this thread. Hoping to win them over- eventually .

But.... if you have issues with any of my posts, about anything, for any reason, please contact a moderator immediately.

I vouch for Cryptic!! Whether we disagree or agree... Cryptic is a worthy poster/WS member, imo (and I'm admittedly all kinds of fussy and cranky!)

 

[Simply Southern]

https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1724511443293237265?s=20

https://twitter.com/x/status/1724511443293237265

**phooey, I still can't post these properly

They stepping up the message. Moo