Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #11

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  • #261
I’m, personally, torn about the deals with terrorists. On one hand, no compromising. Release every single one and return bodies of deceased. On the other hand, as a very selfish mother/daughter/sister/wife, I can’t imagine not being selfish in wanting my own released no matter what the compromise is.

Hamas is definitely very weakened. They’ve watched videos of their government buildings taken over by IDF, videos of their “secret” tunnels, been called out for using hospitals and ambulances, been called out for using civilians as human shields. The mental weakening harms them as much (if not more) as the military. Watching the IDF shield and assist civilians probably weakens them the most. All JMO.
It would be interesting to hear the Hamas rationale & “rules” for 3 day pause. Why not release the hostages and just stop?
My line of thinking is this: Hamas is getting desperate-- they're actually negotiating (which, imo, is a first). Capitalize on that. Yes, getting some hostages may be better than none. But then, how do you face the other families? Netanyahu  promised from the outset, that Israel would destroy Hamas (at least in Gaza), and get back the hostages. Let the man fulfill his promise to the people, and finish his career on that. JMO
 
  • #262
Just me guessing on why I think a 3 day pause. Time to regroup? Time to rest. Time to get a restock of weapons from Iran and other countries that support their terror.. JMO
D. All the above
 
  • #263
Women were raped by them. Women were murdered by them. Women were kidnapped by them. Women were burned alive by them. Yet, the @UN_Women
organization has remained silent. Why?? Because they are Israelis They didn’t mention the Jewish babies, girls, and women massacred, raped, mutilated, shot, stabbed, burned alive, and held hostage by Hamas in Gaza. This is an organization that is supposed to uphold women’s human rights around the world. Despite this, they chose to IGNORE the brutal crimes against humanity committed by Hamas against Jewish women and girls in Israel. Your silence and criminal neglect of babies, women, and girls will not be erased from history.

 
  • #264
Head of @USAIDWBG during the 2014 war, @Dave_Harden
(good man), says head of the Red Cross was aware at the time that Hamas was using ambulances to transport its terrorists—and said nothing. Gross negligence.

Charity sector pro-Hamas bias using the babies, medical supplies and patients to bolster their donations baskets … just sickening
BBC reporting on Israel providing medical supplies ends on sour note with angry doctor refusing aid … just sickening
 
  • #265

"How long will Israel's war with Hamas last?

Israel's war with Hamas has been going on for four weeks now.

'The fate of the bombed Gaza Strip hangs in the balance. – If right-wing voices and the voices of settlement communities gain sufficient support, I am afraid that the scenario of Israel taking over the Gaza Strip may be realized'
– says the expert.

What would have to happen for the war between Israel and Hamas to simply end?

'Sticking strictly to the definition of war, the war will probably end in the next few weeks.

This will happen after the Israeli leaders, under the influence of internal factors, the pressure of their society on the one hand, the pressure of the international community, in particular the United States, on the other, and looking and assessing the military results of the operation, come to the conclusion that they have achieved their goal - i.e., they destroyed the military structures of Hamas.

But the aftershocks of this
Middle East earthquake will be felt for a long time?


'The conflict has been going on for over 100 years, having fully begun in the 1920s with larger waves of Jewish settlement in Palestine during the British Mandate.

It is an ethnoreligious conflict,
but in fact it is a territorial dispute between Israel, which gained statehood in 1948, and the other side, which has not yet obtained the full mandate of all international players, although the structures of a Palestinian state have been in operation since the end of the 20th century'.

Will Palestine finally become a state recognized by the international community?

'This is the most troubling question.
It seems to me that such a trend may occur, although it will not mean that the Palestinian Authority will become a state in the full sense of the word.

For this, recognition by the international community is not enough, but also, above all, control over one's own territory, and this is a huge problem.

The Palestinian Authority controls small enclaves - approximately 224 enclaves, between which communication is controlled by the State of Israel.

The Palestinian Authority does not exercise sovereign control over its territory, which is a condition for statehood.

For Palestinians, what is more important is how the political processes in Palestine will unfold'.

And how will they turn out?

'The Gaza Strip is the largest and most populous Palestinian-controlled territory.

Power there was seized by Hamas, which rules there and creates the structures of a quasi-authoritarian state, violating all opposition and freedom of speech.

Possible political changes within the Palestinian Authority, Gaza, and within Palestinian society are one of the most important factors that will influence the trajectory of changes in Palestine'.

Will Israel take over the Gaza Strip?

'Such voices appear.
There is a fairly strong group of extremists in the Israeli government which want to completely eliminate the Palestinian presence in the areas between the Mediterranean Sea and Israel'.

Politicians like to say different things. Whether this will happen is another matter.

'This is one of the most important questions when it comes to this conflict.

Will there be consent from the Israeli political center or will there be resistance?

Will the resistance from the US be only verbal, or will it result in political decisions that reduce the level of support for Israel if it decides to take over the Gaza Strip, which will be an action in violation of international law?

It all depends on the political balance in Israel.

If right-wing voices and the voices of the settler communities gain sufficient support, I am afraid that the scenario of taking over the Gaza Strip may be realized.

In my opinion, however, this would be extremely unfavorable for the prospects of building a peace solution in the area of Palestine and Israel'.

And for Israel's image in the international arena, especially in the US?

'To put it simply, we can say that this would be met with considerable condemnation on the part of the Democrats,
while a large part of the Republicans would accept it with understanding.

America is still an ally of Israel,
but at the same time there is a slow change in the distribution of sympathy.

On one hand, there is a growing awareness of the fate of the Palestinians,
and on the other hand, there is also a growing number of Americans with Arab roots or simply from Muslim countries.

Let us remember that the Palestinian issue is a topic not only in Arab countries, but in a much larger group of Muslim countries'."

The rest in the link from my country's MSM.
Click Translate

https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/iz...aela z Hamasem trwa,rozmowie z Onetem dr hab.

"How long will Israel's war with Hamas last?

Israel's war with Hamas has been going on for four weeks now.

'The fate of the bombed Gaza Strip hangs in the balance. – If right-wing voices and the voices of settlement communities gain sufficient support, I am afraid that the scenario of Israel taking over the Gaza Strip may be realized'
– says the expert.

What would have to happen for the war between Israel and Hamas to simply end?

'Sticking strictly to the definition of war, the war will probably end in the next few weeks.

This will happen after the Israeli leaders, under the influence of internal factors, the pressure of their society on the one hand, the pressure of the international community, in particular the United States, on the other, and looking and assessing the military results of the operation, come to the conclusion that they have achieved their goal - i.e., they destroyed the military structures of Hamas.

But the aftershocks of this
Middle East earthquake will be felt for a long time?


'The conflict has been going on for over 100 years, having fully begun in the 1920s with larger waves of Jewish settlement in Palestine during the British Mandate.

It is an ethnoreligious conflict,
but in fact it is a territorial dispute between Israel, which gained statehood in 1948, and the other side, which has not yet obtained the full mandate of all international players, although the structures of a Palestinian state have been in operation since the end of the 20th century'.

Will Palestine finally become a state recognized by the international community?

'This is the most troubling question.
It seems to me that such a trend may occur, although it will not mean that the Palestinian Authority will become a state in the full sense of the word.

For this, recognition by the international community is not enough, but also, above all, control over one's own territory, and this is a huge problem.

The Palestinian Authority controls small enclaves - approximately 224 enclaves, between which communication is controlled by the State of Israel.

The Palestinian Authority does not exercise sovereign control over its territory, which is a condition for statehood.

For Palestinians, what is more important is how the political processes in Palestine will unfold'.

And how will they turn out?

'The Gaza Strip is the largest and most populous Palestinian-controlled territory.

Power there was seized by Hamas, which rules there and creates the structures of a quasi-authoritarian state, violating all opposition and freedom of speech.

Possible political changes within the Palestinian Authority, Gaza, and within Palestinian society are one of the most important factors that will influence the trajectory of changes in Palestine'.

Will Israel take over the Gaza Strip?

'Such voices appear.
There is a fairly strong group of extremists in the Israeli government which want to completely eliminate the Palestinian presence in the areas between the Mediterranean Sea and Israel'.

Politicians like to say different things. Whether this will happen is another matter.

'This is one of the most important questions when it comes to this conflict.

Will there be consent from the Israeli political center or will there be resistance?

Will the resistance from the US be only verbal, or will it result in political decisions that reduce the level of support for Israel if it decides to take over the Gaza Strip, which will be an action in violation of international law?

It all depends on the political balance in Israel.

If right-wing voices and the voices of the settler communities gain sufficient support, I am afraid that the scenario of taking over the Gaza Strip may be realized.

In my opinion, however, this would be extremely unfavorable for the prospects of building a peace solution in the area of Palestine and Israel'.

And for Israel's image in the international arena, especially in the US?

'To put it simply, we can say that this would be met with considerable condemnation on the part of the Democrats,
while a large part of the Republicans would accept it with understanding.

America is still an ally of Israel,
but at the same time there is a slow change in the distribution of sympathy.

On one hand, there is a growing awareness of the fate of the Palestinians,
and on the other hand, there is also a growing number of Americans with Arab roots or simply from Muslim countries.

Let us remember that the Palestinian issue is a topic not only in Arab countries, but in a much larger group of Muslim countries'."

The rest in the link from my country's MSM.
Click Translate


This article is more of an opinion piece than a news article. A journalist is interviewing a so-called expert on the Middle East( Dr. Hab?) and he is giving his opinion as you have quoted above.

He also says:

"Even President Joe Biden himself reportedly told Prime Minister Netanyahu that his days in office were numbered.

This is an important voice reminding us that the Hamas attack is not an existential threat to Israel. Americans set their own example by saying that the attacks of September 11, 2001 were a tragedy, but the United States overreacted then and that reaction was a mistake. Now they are warning the authorities in Jerusalem that the response should not be disproportionate to the threat itself. However, US-Israeli communication takes place on many levels. I am convinced that Washington is talking not only to the government, but also to the opposition and the Israeli military. So I imagine a tactical takeover of the Gaza Strip."
 
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  • #266
My line of thinking is this: Hamas is getting desperate-- they're actually negotiating (which, imo, is a first). Capitalize on that. Yes, getting some hostages may be better than none. But then, how do you face the other families? Netanyahu  promised from the outset, that Israel would destroy Hamas (at least in Gaza), and get back the hostages. Let the man fulfill his promise to the people, and finish his career on that. JMO
You’re right. Rational. Most people agree with what you’re saying.
 
  • #267
BBM. Terror indoctrination in the Gaza schools? Is there a link where I can learn more? Thanks!

JMO
There’s a horrid video that shows the kindergarten students reenacting a brutal attack. I hope you can find it.
 
  • #268
Charity sector pro-Hamas bias using the babies, medical supplies and patients to bolster their donations baskets … just sickening
BBC reporting on Israel providing medical supplies ends on sour note with angry doctor refusing aid … just sickening
Hi, I don’t know if this bolded part is in reference to my post, where I was speaking about the doctor who was quoted in the Guardian as saying that if it was up to him, he would refuse the aid. To be clear I don’t think he actually refused any aid (at least, according to the quote that I saw).
 
  • #269
Women were raped by them. Women were murdered by them. Women were kidnapped by them. Women were burned alive by them. Yet, the @UN_Women
organization has remained silent. Why?? Because they are Israelis They didn’t mention the Jewish babies, girls, and women massacred, raped, mutilated, shot, stabbed, burned alive, and held hostage by Hamas in Gaza. This is an organization that is supposed to uphold women’s human rights around the world. Despite this, they chose to IGNORE the brutal crimes against humanity committed by Hamas against Jewish women and girls in Israel. Your silence and criminal neglect of babies, women, and girls will not be erased from history.


That image has been seared in my head since I first saw it.
My anger and disgust of the evil/ barbaric/ sub-human Hamas is real.

No Quarter

MOO and Peace
 
  • #270
That image has been seared in my head since I first saw it.
My anger and disgust of the evil/ barbaric/ sub-human Hamas is real.

No Quarter

MOO and Peace
I spent last night listening to testimonies of many, many survivors. Survivors who witnessed gang rapes, beheadings, butchering with their own eyes. A 90 year old grandmother who had to watch her granddaughter raped in front of her eyes. It was so difficult, to say the least. There is an organization documenting these testimonies. Words, not photographs. No photographs needed. I will post the link later for whoever wants to bear witness To these atrocities.
 
  • #271
It would be interesting to hear the Hamas rationale & “rules” for 3 day pause. Why not release the hostages and just stop?
A three day pause is going to cost the IDF dearly. :(
Omo.

Just me guessing on why I think a 3 day pause. Time to regroup? Time to rest. Time to get a restock of weapons from Iran and other countries that support their terror.. JMO
Bbm.
Exactly.
Grrr...
 
  • #272
I spent last night listening to testimonies of many, many survivors. Survivors who witnessed gang rapes, beheadings, butchering with their own eyes. A 90 year old grandmother who had to watch her granddaughter raped in front of her eyes. It was so difficult, to say the least. There is an organization documenting these testimonies. Words, not photographs. No photographs needed. I will post the link later for whoever wants to bear witness To these atrocities.
It is just so heartbreaking.
 
  • #273
A three day pause is going to cost the IDF dearly. :(
Omo.


Bbm.
Exactly.
Grrr...
I agree, It'll relieve the pressure IDF has worked so hard to put on the terrorists.
 
  • #274
 
  • #275
  • #276
  • #277

Good article confirming what we already knew, but good that they lay out the details so well. Iran does need to control its proxies better that are striking U.S. bases in the Middle East, or they could soon be drawn into a war with the U.S. as well. JMO.

From the article -

"Iran has shown a four-decade commitment to fighting America and Israel without entering into direct conflict. The regime's revolutionary ideology is based on opposition to America and Israel, but its leaders are not suicidal, they want to stay in power."
 
  • #278
Based on how many patients there were at the moment to how many employees were still there. They should have had more than enough to help out with babies. Jmoo
Our nursing staffing assignments
Newborn: (Can't remember didn't work there enough)
Level 1: 4-5 (Feeder/grower/weaning for tube feeding/phototherapy/rule out sepsis/IV antibiotics)
Level 2: 2-3 (Required tube feeding/NPO TPN IV nutrition/risk for GI issues/Assessment for head circumference/Oxygen/Some respiratory distress, but not severe)
Level 3: 1 to 1(on ventilator) or sometimes 2. Infants are considered critical. Surgery, possible brain bleeds.


The infants at Al Shifa appeared to be between Level 1 and Level 2. Some with retractions may have needed vent assistance. They also had other risks which we don't have in the US and that was risk for external infection. In the US, most infection risks are internal (necrotizing enterocolitis, meconium aspiration, sepsis acquired from uterus).

Doctors in Gaza were also talking about other GI risk and unsterile conditions. (We don't have that risk here)

Taking care of newborns is relatively easy if technical issues are not involved.

What I saw at Shifa: There was a girl with a trach who was being bagged. Someone who needs bagging 24/7 will need more than 1 to 1. Any vent dependent patient is going to need more than 1 to 1. I don't know how long someone can bag someone, but it is exhausting. I'm guessing an hour?

Most acute ER trauma will need more than 1 to 1. I'm not sure how many are needed for surgery. But a typical OR here will have: Anesthesiologist, Surgeon and at least two nurses. Also, staff was living at the hospital, so they need to sleep. Additionally, hospitals are staffed with radiologists, pathologists, floor clerks, records and maintenance staff.

I think trauma and surgery is demanding much of the staff..Also, they need staff to hold lit cell phones for many medical procedures..MOO...

So, I don't think they truly had 1 to 1 for the infants.
 
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