Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #12

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  • #1,201
BREAKING: No deal signed by Israel and Hamas yet due to 'disagreements', 'no ceasefire today'DAY 48 of the war: Follow the latest updates on our LIVEBLOG
The delay could be related to the hostages list Hamas provided to Israeli officials, according to WSJ

The long-awaited ceasefire is postponed by at least a day due to the "last-minute disagreements" between Israel and Hamas, stated senior Israeli diplomatic. The U.S. officials cited by the WSJ said that the delay concerns the list of hostages provided by Hamas that lacked information.
The White House official told WSJ that the parties, however, are finalizing the "logistical details.


 
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Nothing is going to happen for a long time.

Amir Avivi, former deputy commander of the Gaza Division of Israel’s military, said that after Israel takes all of Gaza it will take them about a year to clear the whole Gaza Strip. Meaning clearing it of booby traps, IEDs, bombs, munitions.

Landscape after the battle.
Ruins of destruction.
Smell of blood mixed with pain.
A cemetery.
:(
 
  • #1,204
BREAKING: No deal signed by Israel and Hamas yet due to 'disagreements', 'no ceasefire today'DAY 48 of the war: Follow the latest updates on our LIVEBLOG
The delay could be related to the hostages list Hamas provided to Israeli officials, according to WSJ

The long-awaited ceasefire is postponed by at least a day due to the "last-minute disagreements" between Israel and Hamas, stated senior Israeli diplomatic. The U.S. officials cited by the WSJ said that the delay concerns the list of hostages provided by Hamas that lacked information.
The White House official told WSJ that the parties, however, are finalizing the "logistical details.



BBM:
“The U.S. officials cited by the WSJ said that the delay concerns the list of hostages provided by Hamas that lacked information.”
 
  • #1,205
Nothing is going to happen for a long time.

Amir Avivi, former deputy commander of the Gaza Division of Israel’s military, said that after Israel takes all of Gaza it will take them about a year to clear the whole Gaza Strip. Meaning clearing it of booby traps, IEDs, bombs, munitions.

I think President Biden, Australia, UK, Canada have other plans and the Israeli military "clearing" of Gaza will cease the moment a 2-state solution is in place.

JMO
 
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Landscape after the battle.
Ruins of destruction.
Smell of blood mixed with pain.
A cemetery.
:(

And the stats seem to be saying that for every Hamas member killed, an additional 2 Palestinians are killed. imo

If their estimations are correct.
 
  • #1,207
And the stats seem to be saying that for every Hamas member killed, an additional 2 Palestinians are killed. imo

If their estimations are correct.
That's not acceptable! I'm glad President Biden and other world leaders are intervening. I hope it does move forward because it truly is a very dark time for both the Israeli hostages and the Gaza civilians.
JMO

Some Biden administration officials quietly say the hostage exchange agreement is the clearest signal yet its strategy toward the Israel-Hamas war is working.

Under the breakthrough deal, 50 women and children will be released by Hamas in exchange for 150 Palestinian prisoners, women and teenagers held by Israelis. A four- to five-day pause would allow them a safer transfer and ease the delivery of life-saving aid to suffering Palestinians in Gaza. Amid so much wreckage and chaos, the hostage deal — which was finalized late Tuesday — might prove a rare bright spot in a dark time.
 
  • #1,208
Good news...if it actually happens!
JMO

A swap of Palestinian prisoners in Israel for Israeli hostages held by Hamas in Gaza would not begin earlier than Friday, Tzachi Hanegbi, Israel’s National Security Council director, said in a statement overnight. The first part of the agreement, a four-day pause in fighting, is set to begin earlier. The deal, which involves the first major pause since Israel launched an air and ground assault on the Gaza Strip after Hamas attacked Israel on Oct. 7, is set to allow the exchange of at least 50 Israeli hostages, civilian women and children, for 150 Palestinian women and teenagers held in Israeli prisons. Israel has said it could extend the pause by a day for every additional 10 hostages released after the initial group.
 
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STOP the bickering and move on.

Thank you.
 
  • #1,211
I don't know what the doctor did or did not do. But I do know that due process exists even in a war.

Since you admit that you don't know anything about the doctor, it could also be said we don't know what cause they had to hold him. If they had a cause, there is due process. Otherwise, no, due process is not the same during a war. And the standard of due process is not the same everywhere anyway.

Not having "due process" is not a war crime during the war. War crimes prosecution of the Nazis was because, in their country, at that time, they did not commit a "crime" in obliterating millions of Jews.
Coincidentally, Hamas does not consider the same goal as criminal.
 
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It might be that they want to put the director and senior doctors under the hot lights, to see what they know.

Referring again to the Troubles in Ireland, there was a specific hospital that the IRA took their seriously injured to for care, because the hospital kept their presence quiet and attended to their medical/surgical needs. (as per Say Nothing by Patrick Keefe)

If the doctors have been coerced and tell what they know, they won't be wanting to go back to certain death in Gaza.

imo
 
  • #1,215
There is a piece here by Military Court Watch which explains the Israeli military arrest and judicial process for Palestinians. This part relates to adults. There is another part for minors. Not much difference between the two.

  • For less serious offences, individuals are handed over to the Israeli police inside a settlement who then conduct the interrogation.
  • For more serious offences, the individual will be handed over to the Israeli Security Agency (ISA), also known as the Shin Bet, who will conduct a more rigorous interrogation.
  • Generally within a few days of arrest, custody of the individual will be handed over to the Israeli Prison Service (IPS)
  • Within a few days of arrest, the individual will be taken before a military court judge for the first time.
  • Persons accused of offences frequently only see their lawyer for the first time inside a military courtroom.
  • On the first court appearance the judge will usually decide whether or not the suspect should remain in detention until the end of the legal proceedings.
  • There will generally be around five court appearances, sometimes more, before a case is finalised, usually by way of plea bargain.
  • Because bail is denied in most cases, the quickest way out of the system is to plead guilty, whether the offence was committed or not. This explains why the conviction rate in the military courts is over 99 percent.

 
  • #1,216
There is a piece here by Military Court Watch which explains the Israeli military arrest and judicial process for Palestinians. This part relates to adults. There is another part for minors. Not much difference between the two.

  • For less serious offences, individuals are handed over to the Israeli police inside a settlement who then conduct the interrogation.
  • For more serious offences, the individual will be handed over to the Israeli Security Agency (ISA), also known as the Shin Bet, who will conduct a more rigorous interrogation.
  • Generally within a few days of arrest, custody of the individual will be handed over to the Israeli Prison Service (IPS)
  • Within a few days of arrest, the individual will be taken before a military court judge for the first time.
  • Persons accused of offences frequently only see their lawyer for the first time inside a military courtroom.
  • On the first court appearance the judge will usually decide whether or not the suspect should remain in detention until the end of the legal proceedings.
  • There will generally be around five court appearances, sometimes more, before a case is finalised, usually by way of plea bargain.
  • Because bail is denied in most cases, the quickest way out of the system is to plead guilty, whether the offence was committed or not. This explains why the conviction rate in the military courts is over 99 percent.

Rigorous interrogation o_O
Sounds scary!!
Brrr
 
  • #1,217
Rigorous interrogation o_O
Sounds scary!!
Brrr
  • Persons accused of offences frequently only see their lawyer for the first time inside a military courtroom.
I find it all terrifying but nothing more so than civilians being subject to interrogation by military in effect with no representation or due process.
My opinion
 
  • #1,218

Information missteps have led to questions about Israel’s credibility

Israel has released several pieces of incorrect or disputed information, leading to weakened credibility and online ridicule.

Snip
Israel’s public-relations machine has gone into overdrive in recent weeks to make the case that its pummeling of Gaza has been necessary and conducted in a way meant to minimize civilian deaths. It has allowed journalists, including those from NBC News, to embed with its soldiers in Gaza, maintained a steady drumbeat of social media posts, and made Israeli representatives available for TV appearances.

But in its recent outreach to global allies, Israel has released several pieces of inaccurate or disputed information including claiming that an Arabic calendar was a shift schedule for Hamas kidnappers, and using curtains as evidence that hostage videos had been filmed in a hospital.

The widespread reaction calling out these questionable pieces of evidence has weakened Israel’s credibility, according to some experts, and could lead to a boy-who-cried-wolf situation unless concrete evidence for a Hamas headquarters is found beneath Gaza’s Al-Shifa hospital, one of Israel’s key contentions at this stage of the war.

“The irony is they might find something and nobody is going to believe them,” said H.A. Hellyer, a senior associate fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, a Washington, D.C., think tank. “At this point their credibility is shot.”

Snip
Most notably, IDF spokesman Daniel Hagari showed what he said was evidence that the Al-Rantisi hospital had been used by Hamas to detain hostages. He pointed to a piece of paper, saying that it showed a rota for guarding the captives. “Every terrorist has his own shift,” he said.

Written above the document in pen was “Al-Aqsa Flood,” Hamas’ name for its Oct. 7 assault. But Arabic speakers pointed out that the rest of the paper merely showed days of the week, with no trace of the Hamas captors’ names described by Hagari.

Elsewhere in the hospital, he pointed out curtains had been hung on a wall with no window. There was “no reason” to do this “unless you want to film hostages and deliver movies,” Hagari said.

Some people from the region pointed out that this is a common interior decor theme among Palestinian households.

Snip
Nevertheless, ridicule soon followed. Videos on social media have lampooned increasingly ridiculous and mundane objects held up as “IDF evidence.”

Israel has been accused of spreading misinformation before. Last week, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s spokesperson for Arab media, Ofir Gendelman, posted to X a video that he claimed showed Gazans faking their injuries with makeup. Despite countless people correcting him that the footage was in fact from a Lebanese film, it had not been deleted as of Friday.

Attacking a hospital is a war crime unless a military or militant group is using it for operations, according to the International Committee of the Red Cross. Even then, doctors and patients must be warned, with extra care taken not to harm those who stay.

 
  • #1,219

After delay, Qatar says announcement on timing of truce to be made in the coming hours​




Qatar’s foreign ministry spokesperson Majed al-Ansari says in a statement that Qatar is working with the two warring parties along with Israel and the US “to ensure the rapid start of the truce and to provide what is necessary to ensure the parties’ commitment to the agreement.”

 
  • #1,220
Remarkable monologue by Kuwaiti political commentator Fahd Al-Shalimi (a former military-man) accusing Hamas of being “the sole responsible” for all the death and destruction in Gaza. Here are some key quotes:~ “My message to Hamas: Did you liberate Al Aqsa? Did you liberate Palestine? You crammed the people of Gaza into a small box of killing and turned it into a graveyard.~ “You did not achieve a great victory following the events of October 7. You destroyed the Palestinian people and you destroyed Gaza. And now you need to pay a heavy price.~ “The death toll is disastrous, the desolation of a thousand neighborhoods is because of you. You gave Netanyahu the opportunity to destroy the Palestinian people. As when you stood on the podiums before, you bear the same responsibility today, in your tunnels.~ “Hamas is the sole responsible for placing the Palestinian people in a box of killing. What you see now is death, suicide.”

 
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