Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #12

[Friday Fan]

Interference with the geopolitical state of the middle east is very much down to the waning power of Britain as a great power in the aftermath of the last war and the rising power of the USA.

Others helped but these two must bear the brunt of what was made of this region.

Great Britain is no longer the world power some think we still are. But the leader of the free world is undoubtedly America and American friendship is the only voice that Israel will listen to.

What really distresses me about this debate is the fashion in which Palestinians are denigrated. Palestinians are people too who should be enjoying the rights other unoppressed people do. America is the land of the free. Imagine it was not but was under the diktat of a foreign power.
My opinion

Exactly.

Being a world power has consequences.

 

[Simply Southern]

President Joe Biden on hostage deal: "I don't trust Hamas to do anything right, I only trust Hamas to respond to pressure."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1728135911764795617

Leave it to Joe to call it like it is. Moo

 

[fred&edna]

Because that is what the US does.

(not even gonna touch on Palestinians because they have only been peripheral. Our interests have been the Soviets and oil. )

Israel has usually handled the Palestinians.

Palestinians are refugees. Jordan has almost has many as Israel. Just because Palestinians speak Arab does not does not mean they belong in other Arab countries. We could say that about many countries in the Americas about people who speak certain languages.

I could go on and on, but here is a handful.

It's due to our "Nation Building" policy.

We have all the firepower, atomic bombs and the largest defense in the world.
That's what we do....

It started with Cold War.

It also has to do with our oil demands in the ME.


In 1953, Iran had an election and they were afraid it would become communist, so their leader was once again replaced with the monarch. We maintained very strong tries with Iran, but the people of Iran were mistreated by the Shah and saw him as an American puppet.

1953 Iranian coup d'état - Wikipedia
The 1953 Iranian coup d'état, known in Iran as the 28 Mordad coup d'état (Persian: کودتای ۲۸ مرداد), was the U.S.- and British-instigated, Iranian army-led overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in favor of strengthening the monarchical rule of the shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, on 19 August 1953.[5] It was aided by the United States (under the name TP-AJAX (Tudeh Party) Project[6] or Operation Ajax) and the United Kingdom (under the name Operation Boot).[7][8][9][10] The Shi'a clergy also played a considerable role.[11]


We were in Afghanistan from 1979-1992 - supporting radical Islamic militants to fight the Soviet Union

Operation Cyclone - Wikipedia
Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) program to arm and finance the Afghan mujahideen in Afghanistan from 1979 to 1992, prior to and during the military intervention by the USSR in support of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. The mujahideen were also supported by Britain's MI6, who conducted their own separate covert actions. The program leaned heavily towards supporting militant Islamic groups, including groups with jihadist ties, that were favored by the regime of Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq in neighboring Pakistan, rather than other, less ideological Afghan resistance groups that had also been fighting the Soviet-oriented Democratic Republic of Afghanistan administration since before the Soviet intervention.[1]

Operation Cyclone was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken.[2] Funding officially began with $695,000 in mid-1979,[3] was increased dramatically to $20–$30 million per year in 1980, and rose to $630 million per year in 1987,[1][4][5] described as the "biggest bequest to any Third World insurgency".[6] The first CIA-supplied weapons were antique British Lee–Enfield rifles shipped out in December 1979; by September 1986 the program included U.S.-origin state of the art weaponry, such as FIM-92 Stinger surface-to-air missiles, some 2,300 of which were ultimately shipped into Afghanistan.[7] Funding continued (albeit reduced) after the 1989 Soviet withdrawal, as the mujahideen continued to battle the forces of President Mohammad Najibullah's army during the Afghan Civil War (1989–1992).[8]
In the late 1980s, Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto, concerned about the growing strength of the Islamist movement, told President George H. W. Bush, "You are creating a Frankenstein."[70]


After the Soviet Union collapsed, we left Afghanistan


The 2003 invasion of Iraq was planned in 1998

Project for the New American Century - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

PNAC's stated goal was "to promote American global leadership."[6] The organization stated that "American leadership is good both for America and for the world," and sought to build support for "a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity."[7]
In September 2000 PNAC released "Rebuilding America's Defenses" a report that promotes "the belief that America should seek to preserve and extend its position of global leadership by maintaining the preeminence of U.S. military forces." The report also states, "advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool."[22][23]

Calls for regime change in Iraq[edit]​

In 1998, Kristol and Kagan advocated regime change in Iraq throughout the Iraq disarmament process through articles that were published in the New York Times.[24][25] Following perceived Iraqi unwillingness to co-operate with UN weapons inspections, core members of the PNAC including Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, R. James Woolsey, Elliott Abrams, Donald Rumsfeld, Robert Zoellick, and John Bolton were among the signatories of an open letter initiated by the PNAC to President Bill Clinton calling for the removal of Saddam Hussein.[19][26] Portraying Saddam Hussein as a threat to the United States, its Middle East allies, and oil resources in the region, and emphasizing the potential danger of any weapons of mass destruction under Iraq's control, the lette

Almost akin to years of applying band-aids, tourniquets, and doing unsuccessful surgeries on those suffering with a transmitted terminal evil disease.

 

[Leve]

With respect - Hamas are the militants.

The Palestinian people need to be in control of their own destiny which allows them to map it out for themselves.

The Gaza strip has been bombed back into the dark ages making it of necessity a bigger dependency than it was. The tunnels used to be smugglers' tunnels bringing in goods we would expect to access freely but they were not allowed to. It is no way to live. They need control of their own ports and infrastructure ... is there room on the strip for an airport.
There are many issues to be sorted and now is beyond time for doing so. We've had a wake up call!
My opinion

And how exactly do you suppose the Palestinian people can be in "control of their own destiny" with Hamas in charge?

People like to wax poetic about how the Palestinians deserve this and that but fail to realize that will never happen if they are ruled by a terrorist group that doesn't care AT ALL about ports, and jobs, and infrastructure. FFS, they tore up pipes from water systems to make weapons.

We can all want world peace, an end to hunger, and to sing kumbaya around the fire. But despite what Disney sells not all wishes come true.

 

[Simply Southern]

Not to detract from the joy of the hostages released but a reminder to those who deny the truth and to once again explain the reason we are here for discussion. imo

Background (in my words)
An idiot called in to spew filth and ask a question.
Eylon didn't even have to answer this question as there was another who attested to the atrocities of Hamas on Oct 7, 2023.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1728119702793187814

I love this guy !!!!

 

[Sundog]

(Oh my goodness. These poor people. The woman being carried is Hana Katzir who they said died. They all look awful)

Hamas published this dramatic footage showing the release of the 13 Israeli hostages from Gaza earlier today. This video was created by Hamas to display an image that is "humane," after brutely slaughtering thousands of Israelis. Read more

https://twitter.com/x/status/1728137142780452962

That is "humane"?!! Total disorganization, yelling demonstrators all around them, terrorists with faces covered and rifles pointed, everyone closing in on them, reaching out to touch them. The face of the mother of the young boy, etched in fear and fatigue for her son. The fear and confusion on the faces of several of the elderly women, one of them can't even walk.

Dear God, what they have suffered.

 

[Sundog]

Operation "Heaven's door"
How poetic!

It's more than "poetic," they've just been released from a literal hell.

 

[Friday Fan]

Why does no other territory, state, region want to accept Palestinians?

Wonder why? Usually allies help each other. M

Not to be snarky, but we're Israel's ally, maybe we could do this favor for them ? Don't worry, I'm not serious

Arab nations have their reasons. It's fairly involved.
Much it is because they don't want to take on what they perceive as Israel's problem.

 

[fred&edna]

And how exactly do you suppose the Palestinian people can be in "control of their own destiny" with Hamas in charge?

People like to wax poetic about how the Palestinians deserve this and that but fail to realize that will never happen if they are ruled by a terrorist group that doesn't care AT ALL about ports, and jobs, and infrastructure. FFS, they tore up pipes from water systems to make weapons.

We can all want world peace, an end to hunger, and to sing kumbaya around the fire. But despite what Disney sells not all wishes come true.

Exactly! And, they've spent most of their years blaming everyone else around them and everyone else in history!

I don't care what anyone else calls them. Hamas are not militants (that's like perfuming a pig), they are terrorists!!

This is not a militant!

(Yes, folks it's THAT video again)

 

[Dotta]

That is "humane"?!! Total disorganization, yelling demonstrators all around them, terrorists with faces covered and rifles pointed, everyone closing in on them, reaching out to touch them. The face of the mother of the young boy, etched in fear and fatigue for her son. The fear and confusion on the faces of several of the elderly women, one of them can't even walk.

Dear God, what they have suffered.




O

But they are ALIVE.
And are freed.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

It's more than "poetic," they've just been released from a literal hell.

Bingo!
RELEASED !!!

 

[Simply Southern]

(Lots of Hamas flags in the celebrations)

Celebrations ongoing across the Gaza Strip and the West of Bank for the 39 Palestinian Terrorists who were Released from Israeli Prisons today in an Exchange for the 24 Hostages who are now being Reunited with their Families.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1728126390086807816

So they don't want to be saved for the terrorist government? They like living on humanitarian aid, never having to work towards a self supporting economy?
I assume from the photo they are joyful to have criminals back in the neighborhood.
Moo

 

[Arkay]

Thoughts after watching three different news stations for about 7 hours now…

Obviously, profound joy that these hostages, at least, are safe in Israel.

Also obviously, we need them ALL HOME.

Selfishly, I would love to see their reunions with their families, but Israel has planned all this carefully with whatever is optimal to ease the transition for these who have suffered for so long. For example, placing a barrier screen so the hostages could have privacy going from the helicopters to the van, and then to the hospitals.

IMO, even though the hostages did not look well, they are not the ones who are closest to death…I'm so concerned for those who have not been released and for whatever they are or have been enduring.

It’s been a glorious day with 13 Israelis and 11 foreign nationals to be freed, but what a long day. Woken up from wherever they were, transported to the crossing, ambulances and hospitals and helicopters and vans….but all so worth it.

My heart tears because all those stolen away on October 7th likely have no idea of what we all know—-many of their family members have been murdered, most of their homes have been destroyed, many of their loved ones are still in captivity.

It is repulsive to me that 3x the amount of criminals, attempted murderers of Israelis, have been released from prison. These are dark choices that had to be made.

It is DISGUSTING to see the earliest part of the release, filmed by Hamas, in which they try to look gentlemanly, escorting the elderly women out of the van.

No, Hamas! We know what you did! Holding an elbow for TV propaganda does not erase that you killed and brutalized everyone else and kidnapped these innocents in the first place!!!!

My thought are my opinions.

 

[Dotta]

"It was a surprise': ​

Palestinian woman, arrested at 16 and jailed for eight years for border guard knife attack had ​

'no idea' she was about to be freed by Israel - ​

as families celebrate release of other inmates."​

Palestinian arrested at 16 for knife attack 'surprised' by release

Marah Bakeer, who was arrested aged 16 for a knife attack on a border police officer, said she had 'no idea' of anything that was going on outside of her prison cell.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Simply Southern]

Evacuations of Indonesian Hospital in northern Gaza on hold​

Gaza’s Health Ministry announced Thursday it was suspending its coordination of medical evacuations with the World Health Organization after Israeli forces detained Abu Salmiya from the evacuation convoy he was accompanying.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/23/israel-hamas-war-news-hostages-gaza-palestine/#link-AF7PSIOPH5DDNM3KTOKVUHUZYE

They hold people's lives in their hands, refuse an opportunity to save many lives.
The good doctor must know ALOT to be worth so many lives.

Wonder if he will turn to save himself.

Terrorist mentality, reminds me of a two year throwing a tantrum in Walmart. I want my way and I want it now.

Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

Thank you!

The lies and disgusting misinformation wicked people eagerly spread AND the number of gullible people who can't wait to believe... never ceases to amaze me.

ETA: JMO

Brainwashed moo

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

And I can't imagine the pain, sadness and sickness of the parents of those children still kept hostages.
If I were an old (which I am) captive I would give my freedom for a child.

I would too, however, in this case, Hamas has a strategy for who was to be released. I don't think it would have been safe for any hostage to insist and tell them otherwise. Most likely, they wanted to get rid of the responsibility of caring for the elderly, who may die for any number of reasons while held in captivity.

 

[katydid23]

Copy/paste from the article.

"in addition to enabling the Palestinian people to realize their legitimate national right for an independent state"


It's so confusing to know what these terrorists want. Since when is HAMAS working FOR the Palestinian people? They have made it abundantly clear before Oct 7th, on Oct 7th and since Oct 7th that they are looking to eradicate Jews period. They didn't help Palestinians before Oct 7th.. they took their supplies, places their weapons in and under schools and hospitals and then committed the atrocities they did on Oct 7th knowing full well what Israel would do.. they didn't care and they asked the Palestinians to stay where they are and die Martyrs.

Sure sounds like they want what is best for Palestinians.

If they want an independent state, why didn't Hamas work on making Gaza an efficient, stable state? They could have put their focus upon their people and allowed them to keep their foreign aid. They could have created some lucrative businesses and built a solid economic foundation.

Instead, Hamas stole all of the foreign aid and supplies and used it to plan their vile massacre on Israel. All of that just backfired on them though. JMO

 

[PapillonVert]

Which was debunked in the article I posted.

Minor detail to some.

JMO

But that’s the problem - I don’t think the article quoted by Mex did actually debunk anything- hence my question to the OP (which I don’t feel was ever answered).

In any case - there is plenty of eyewitness testimony by various individuals that backs up the allegation that many women and girls were sexually assaulted, sometimes in front of helpless family members.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/11/16/the-lead-israel-investigates-sexual-violence-claims-on-october-7-jake-tapper.cnn

 

[justtrish]

The first batch of hostages has been released and although the horrible circumstances of the 7th should never have happened - they did.
I don't think there are many relatives of the freed hostages who would agree with you about "pandering" but all are on tenterhooks for their own and those sill in Gaza.

I cannot imagine the trauma these released women have endured over the weeks they were in custody. But whatever the truth of the rape allegations bandied about on the internet, I imagine when they find out about them it can only add to the unimaginable pain and suffering they will carry with them for the rest of their lives.

They could have done without the publicity.

My opinion

They could have done without HAMAS abducting and raping them.

Now the trauma can't be made worse by the world knowing what happened. The trauma can be made worse by the world NOT believing that it actually happened.

The world needs to know what these animals are all about. This was not just a continuation of the back and forth attacks as some have said. This was an all out attack on innocent civilians and what happened needs to be known.

Some still refuse to believe it.