Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #13

[margarita25]

What is this boy’s name. Forgive me as brain is overloaded right now. Tia.

 

[margarita25]

Bringing forward:

At this particular stage, might they not release any bodies that show indications of torture.

 

[PapillonVert]

BBM. It will be impossible to destroy all of Hamas because some of its leaders don't live in Gaza. I think a 2-state "solution" was its goal and it will be achieved. I also think the PM will be left with the same choice as Richard Nixon: either resign or face prosecution.

JMO

I don’t think Hamas is interested in a two state solution. In its charter, it states expressly that it wants all the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, which happens to include Israel. It has said it will repeat the atrocities of 10/7 until it gets what it wants-

“The existence of Israel is what causes all that pain, blood and tears,” Hamad said, calling the creation of the Jewish state “illogical.”

“It is Israel, not us. We are the victims of the occupation. Therefore, nobody should blame us for the things we do. On October 7, October 10, October 1,000,000 — everything we do is justified.”

Source- Hamas official vows to repeat Israel attacks ‘again and again’ until it’s destroyed

Then there’s also this interview where Hamas revealed its goal is to cause chaos-

“In the month since Hamas' surprise attack on Israel, the New York Times has spoken with Hamas leadership about what their objective was in launching it. Chaos and carnage was the point, they say. "Hamas' goal is not to run Gaza and to bring it water and electricity and such," senior Hamas official Khalil al-Hayya told the Times in Doha, Qatar. "This battle was not because we wanted fuel or laborers. It did not seek to improve the situation in Gaza. This battle is to completely overthrow the situation."

Amid fears that the Palestinian cause was being swept into the shadows, al-Hayya said Hamas needed to "change the entire equation and not just have a clash. We succeeded in putting the Palestinian issue back on the table, and now no one in the region is experiencing calm." And as a Hamas media adviser told the Times, the hope is that chaos persists. "I hope that the state of war with Israel will become permanent on all the borders, and that the Arab world will stand with us," Taher El-Nounou said.


In their article, Ben Hubbard and Maria Abi-Habib delve into that reasoning and how the attack took shape—the plan was closely held "by a tight circle of commanders," and its success "broke a long-standing tension within Hamas about the group's identity and purpose," they write: that its priority was not to govern, but to function as an armed force that could obliterate Israel. Their piece also dives into the background of Hamas' leader, Yahya Sinwar, and how he was shaped by more than 20 years spent in Israeli prisons.”

Source:

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[SophieRose]

What is this boy’s name. Forgive me as brain is overloaded right now. Tia.

Erez Calderon from Kibbutz Nir Oz, taken with his brother and father. Still remains in Gaza.

‘They burn our souls’: Mother of two hostages returns to Nir Oz for first time

Hadas Calderon begs the government to bring back her two children and ex-husband, who were kidnapped on October 7, when Hamas terrorists also murdered her mother and niece

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Vern]

The treatment of the Arabs forced to live in the Gaza strip makes one realise that the horrendous events of the 7th didn't occur in a vacuum.

Well, it is an opinion piece that also sanitizes and pressure washes away all of the history of wrong-doing by a single side of this equation while allowing the other sides' to permeate the piece. For example, talk of the detriment of 2km buffer zones while absolutely failing to acknowledge why those buffer zones were there and necessary. Failure to talk about the fact that since 2007, Israelis have been subjected terroristic rocket attacks upon their civilian communites every single week. Since 7 October and continuing until this recent tactical pause - every. single. day.

The blockade was enacted by both Israel and Egypt. After all, with the election of Hamas as their government, the Palestinians had selected a party - Hamas - whose charter and mission explicity called for the destruction of Israel and the establishment of an Islamic government in its place. There's the engine behind "that vacuum".

I'd secure my borders if I were them too. Billions of dollars have been poured into the Gaza since - billions that could have went towards building more than one water desalination station (they do have 4 of their own power plants), billions that could have been spent on adequate housing instead of tents, billons that could have been put towards a stable and reliable economy (tourism perhaps - it is a beautiful piece of land bordering the Mediterranean Sea) beneficial to all Palestinians. Instead all those billions went to building tunnels from which to launch attacks in keeping with the goal of erradicating Israel and Jews, of lining Hamas' leaders and their billionaires pockets, of paying for Hamas' leaders exorbiant and costly overseas lifestyles at innocent civilians expense. None of those things are Israel's fault.

Nor is it Israel's fault that when the British handed over Palestine to the United Nations after the fall of the Nazis, that the Palestinians (and all their Arab Nation Neighbours) rejected the two-state plan rather they wanted the entire cookie. Israel declared it's independance never-the-less as a state for their Jewish areas. The very next day they were attacked by those Arab States and Palestine - a war that would eventually be lost by the agressors who lost land in the process. Here we sit today with the Palestinians wanting to go back to the pre-war 1947 borders.

Thousands of Palestinian, and Hamas, terrorist attacks upon Israel and/or indivudal Jewish citizens later ... here we sit.

If that other side is never to be held accountable for their own actions and contributions to the equation that equals Gaza today, then an opinion piece remains just that = someone's opinion piece vice something that actually contributes to peace.

A failure (or attempt to vacuum away??) to acknowledge, to even admit, Palestine's own roles and Hamas' roles in the historical context of the situation that is the conflict in this region is a failure to acknowledge reality and a failure to take any steps towards achievng actual peace in the ME.

Vacuums and Ostrichs.

IMO.

Office of Justice link to Palestinian, and Hamas, terrorist attacks:

Search | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

Voice of America on the history of conflict:

Gaza’s Past and Present Explained

Understanding the chaos unfolding today in Gaza requires knowledge of its history

www.voanews.com

 

[PommyMommy]

What is this boy’s name. Forgive me as brain is overloaded right now. Tia.

Erez Calderon from Kibbutz Nir Oz, taken with his brother and father. Still remains in Gaza.

‘They burn our souls’: Mother of two hostages returns to Nir Oz for first time

Hadas Calderon begs the government to bring back her two children and ex-husband, who were kidnapped on October 7, when Hamas terrorists also murdered her mother and niece

www.timesofisrael.com

Eitan Yahalomi is also a possibility. MOO

Hamas hostages: Stories of the people taken from Israel

Around 59 hostages taken during 7 October attacks are still believed to be in Gaza.

www.bbc.com

Eitan Yahalomi, 12, was driven away from Nir Oz by Hamas on one moped, and his mother Bat-Sheva and two sisters on another. Bat-Sheva, who is a French national, told a press conference that she managed to escape with her daughters but that she lost sight of Eitan as he was driven towards Gaza. Bat-Sheva's husband Ohad was shot and injured earlier, as he tried to defend the family in their home, and is now missing.

 

[margarita25]

What is this boy’s name. Forgive me as brain is overloaded right now. Tia.

Erez Calderon from Kibbutz Nir Oz, taken with his brother and father. Still remains in Gaza.

‘They burn our souls’: Mother of two hostages returns to Nir Oz for first time

Hadas Calderon begs the government to bring back her two children and ex-husband, who were kidnapped on October 7, when Hamas terrorists also murdered her mother and niece

www.timesofisrael.com

Eitan Yahalomi is also a possibility. MOO

Hamas hostages: Stories of the people taken from Israel

Around 59 hostages taken during 7 October attacks are still believed to be in Gaza.

www.bbc.com

Eitan Yahalomi, 12, was driven away from Nir Oz by Hamas on one moped, and his mother Bat-Sheva and two sisters on another. Bat-Sheva, who is a French national, told a press conference that she managed to escape with her daughters but that she lost sight of Eitan as he was driven towards Gaza. Bat-Sheva's husband Ohad was shot and injured earlier, as he tried to defend the family in their home, and is now missing.

This video should have the answer, iirc. I remember one of these four mothers saying she saw a second of the video of her son being taken with his arms up and had to turn it off. (I think it’s this video)

(Eta: Other videos snipped for clarity)

 

[margarita25]

Released hostages reporting some who are alive, according to this source:

Father of two Argentine Hamas hostages says they are alive and well - Buenos Aires Herald

The two men have been missing since October 7 but hostages released on Saturday said they had seen them

buenosairesherald.com

NOVEMBER 26, 2023


“The brothers Yair (45) and Eitan (37) Horn disappeared on October 7, the day of the first Hamas attack in Israel, and their family suspected they had been kidnapped. Some of the 24 hostages released on Friday by Hamas said they had seen or been with them, according to their father Itzik Horn, said news agency Télam.

Argentina’s state news agency Télam reported on Sunday that their father Itzik Horn received reports from several of the hostages released on Friday by Hamas about the Horn brothers.”

 

[Vern]

36 min ago

Family of Omri Miran, Israeli hostage in Gaza, says they've received confirmation he's alive​

From CNN's Alex Stambaugh

The brother-in-law of Omri Miran, an Israeli hostage still in Gaza, told CNN that the family received confirmation that Miran was still alive as of Sunday morning.


Lavi said the family had received a call from a representative for the Israeli authorities confirming Miran was alive, but that no further details were provided.

The past few days have been an "emotional rollercoaster", Lavi said, seeing photos and videos of freed hostages being reunited with their families, while at the same time knowing there are hostages still in Gaza that have yet to be released.

"It's mixed emotions, but we are delighted that at least we see the beginning or possibly the end of the hostage crisis," Lavi told CNN.

All those released so far under the terms of the deal struck between Israel and Hamas have been women or children, putting the greatest strain on family members with male relatives held hostage.

"Those who are in the Gaza Strip are someone's sons, someone's fathers, someone's grandparents and brothers and they're not merely men, they are meaningful human beings to someone else and I hope that we will see them back," he said.

Lavi's sister, Lishai Lavi, her husband Omri and their two young daughters were at home in Nahal Oz when Hamas gunmen broke into their homes during the October 7th attack and held them hostage. Hamas eventually kidnapped Omri, while Lishai and their daughters survived.

November 26, 2023 Israel-Hamas war

A third set of hostages was released by Hamas on Sunday, including the first American to be successfully freed, according to Israeli and US officials.

edition.cnn.com

I suspect the information came from one of the recently released hostages.

Speaking of Proof of Life. IAW International Law, Hamas has to allow access to the hostages by the ICRC.

If not, just another day of more war crimes being committed by Hamas.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-signals-red-cross-will-visit-remaining-hostages-in-gaza-backing-israeli-assertion/#:~:text=The%20Red%20Cross%20has%20repeatedly,is%20part%20of%20the%20deal.

 

[PommyMommy]

1hr ago

Israel yet to get list of last 11 hostages slated to be released​

Israel has yet to receive a list of which 11 hostages are set to be freed Monday, Hebrew language news outlets report.

Hamas agreed to free a total of 50 women and children kidnapped in Gaza in exchange for 150 Palestinians in Israeli prison, unless the deal is extended.

59min ago

Report: Talks taking place to extend truce by 4 days, free elderly men​

Talks are underway to possibly extend a truce between Israel and Hamas and expand the list of eligible hostages who could be released in coming days, the Wall Street Journal reports.

According to the report, citing people familiar with the negotiations, Egypt and Qatar are mediating talks that could see the deal extended by up to another four days. Hamas already agreed to release 50 hostages in exchange for 150 prisoners and a halt in fighting for four days, a deal that expires on Tuesday.

According to Egyptian officials quoted by the paper, elderly men could be released along with women and children, followed by the remains of the deceased. Hamas has refused to consider releasing non-elderly Israeli men, the WSJ reports, though many of those captured were civilians.

 

[SophieRose]

This video should have the answer, iirc. I remember the mother saying she saw a second of the video of her son being taken with his arms up and had to turn it off. (I think it’s this video)

——-

Erez:

Eitan

Taken captive: Ohad Yahalomi and son Eitan, 12, captured separately

On Kibbutz Nir Oz, Ohad unaccounted for after shot and injured by terrorists while protecting family; Eitan loaded onto a moped and taken to the Gaza Strip, on October 7

www.timesofisrael.com

The Yahalomi family; father Ohad and son Eitan were taken captive separately to Gaza on October 7, 2023 by Hamas terrorists (Courtesy)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1711071520548614159

 

[PommyMommy]

35min ago

Freed hostage Elma Avraham, 84, still fighting for her life​

Elma Avraham (Courtesy)

Prof. Moti Klein, the head of the trauma unit at Soroka Hospital, says Elma Avraham, 84, remains “unstable” and fighting for her life after she was released from Gazan captivity in serious condition.

“Another day and we would not be talking like this,” he tells Channel 12 news.

Avraham, who was evacuated directly from Gaza to Soroka by helicopter, is unconscious and on a respirator, Klein says. He says she arrived at the hospital Sunday in a state of partial consciousness.

While he cannot say for sure, Klein suspects that her condition is a result of not having proper medication in Gaza.

 

[margarita25]

1hr ago

Israel yet to get list of last 11 hostages slated to be released​

Israel has yet to receive a list of which 11 hostages are set to be freed Monday, Hebrew language news outlets report.

Hamas agreed to free a total of 50 women and children kidnapped in Gaza in exchange for 150 Palestinians in Israeli prison, unless the deal is extended. Rsbm

Again, big question, will 3 of the Bibas’ be on this next list.

Otherwise there is something possibly hinky with them, jmo, as thought about/detailed in post linked below.


(Ref:
Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #13)

 

[PommyMommy]

7:31 am

Israel receives list of final 11 hostages set to go free today​

Israel has received the list of final 11 hostages set to be released today after 52 days in the clutches of terrorists in the Gaza Strip, Hebrew media outlets report.

Hamas has freed 39 abductees in the first three days of a temporary ceasefire deal, according to which 50 will be let go in four days in return for 150 Palestinian security prisoners. The deal can be extended by a day for every 10 additional hostages set free.

Hamas has expressed a desire to extend the truce, and the sides are reportedly negotiating such an extension.

 

[katydid23]

No, it’s definitely not the same. It’s like you are saying all Palestinians are terrorists and worth killing.

I certainly don't believe they are all worth killing. Not at all.
I am saying that unless the 2.5 million civilians do something to help rid their land of Hamas terrorists, their lives are at risk---from both Hamas and from the IDF.
It shouldn't be that way and many are being horribly victimised, but Hamas is too far out of control for Israel to back peddle now.

If Gaza became a state, it would presumably be after this war when Israel has killed all the Hamas. If Israel does not think it can kill all the Hamas, maybe it should reconsider its carpet bombing that kills mostly civilians.

I think we all know that Israel cannot 'kill all of Hamas' It will take more than just the Israeli's to rid Gaza of this Hamas infestation.
The people of Gaza need to be their own freedom fighters. If they rebelled against Hamas and took control of their country back, Israel would loosen their control as well. It would signal to Israel that the Gaza people wanted peace.

By the way, Israel is not carpet bombing. But there are way too many civilians dying---we can agree on that.

 

[Dotta]

So...
It is 52nd day of war...

Does the War Cabinet know 2 important things:

1. Where exactly are the hostages kept?

2. Where exactly is Hamas leadership in Gaza?

And one more thing.

How will military ground operation in South Gaza be conducted with over a million inhabitants/ displaced people of Gaza taking refuge there?

JMO

 

[JennieM]

I certainly don't believe they are all worth killing. Not at all.
I am saying that unless the 2.5 million civilians do something to help rid their land of Hamas terrorists, their lives are at risk---from both Hamas and from the IDF.
It shouldn't be that way and many are being horribly victimised, but Hamas is too far out of control for Israel to back peddle now.

I think we all know that Israel cannot 'kill all of Hamas' It will take more than just the Israeli's to rid Gaza of this Hamas infestation.
The people of Gaza need to be their own freedom fighters. If they rebelled against Hamas and took control of their country back, Israel would loosen their control as well. It would signal to Israel that the Gaza people wanted peace.

By the way, Israel is not carpet bombing. But there are way too many civilians dying---we can agree on that.

I see the people of Gaza on their knees if not under rubble. I am not sure how much they can be their own freedom fighters at the moment.

Even President Biden described Israel’s attacks as indiscriminate bombing.

Too many civilians dying. Yes, we can agree on that.

 

[margarita25]

Prime Minister of Qatar: More than 40 women and children in captivity in Gaza - apparently not held by Hamas. According to him, they do not have any information regarding "how many they can locate. One of the goals of the ceasefire is to allow this"
@sapirlipkin

https://x.com/N12News/status/1728866252796666259?s=20

Might this by chance include Shiri, Kfir, and Ariel Bibas?

In the very beginning of this truce deal, it was initially reported that their names were first on the list as he was showing images and reading names of those to be released on the first day.

We know that mothers and children are a first priority in this deal. The baby is the youngest being held, right?

Will they be released during the window of the current deals.

Or are they some of the 40 women and children that they supposedly can’t find.

Wasn’t it shortly after the Bibas’ names were announced by that reporter, there was that official comment following about a delay due to not being able to verify some information about the hostages. It was one sentence, I posted it, will try to remember and source, feel free to jump in if you remember. What is the time stamp on both of those events. I think it was afterwards? Need to confirm.

Then there was also the official announcement afterwards that names will not be released, so as to not get hopes up, but this was after media outlets released names. So the media outlets got their names from somewhere, which I would think would be an official source. So did Israel change its mind on that policy after they couldn’t verify information about names specifically on that original list?

What all names were on that original list, and which ones out those first released names have been released to date.

So point is I’m wondering if they could be part of the “more than 40”…

Sick typing this.

Hope to see more developments re: the above as still behind.


There was one particular video which had translated “audio” from her abductors, which I deleted, because the narration/translation was questionable.

There is also the video of her and the kids shown on the back of the truck, which would show which abductors. Who else was in the group of hostages abducted in that same vehicle.

Video shows the kidnapping of Shiri Silberman-Bibas and her children by Hamas gunmen

Hamas gunmen captured Shiri Silberman-Bibas and her 9-month-old and 3-year-old sons. Other family members, including Shiri's husband and parents, were also kidnapped.

www.nbcnews.com

extended video here New York woman's family found ALIVE after being abducted by Hamas

7:31 am

Israel receives list of final 11 hostages set to go free today​

Israel has received the list of final 11 hostages set to be released today after 52 days in the clutches of terrorists in the Gaza Strip, Hebrew media outlets report.

Hamas has freed 39 abductees in the first three days of a temporary ceasefire deal, according to which 50 will be let go in four days in return for 150 Palestinian security prisoners. The deal can be extended by a day for every 10 additional hostages set free.

Hamas has expressed a desire to extend the truce, and the sides are reportedly negotiating such an extension.

Again, big question, will 3 of the Bibas’ be on this next list.

Otherwise there is something possibly hinky with them, jmo, as thought about/detailed in post linked below.


(Ref:
Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #13)

Also, will Yuli and Emma Cunio be on the list. Otherwise might also be hinky (for lack of a better word), as far as the potential hostages they supposedly can not find, imo, as similarly expressed above about the Bibas’.

Were they also on that original first list read by that reporter? Iirc, they were.

I hope none of these thoughts pan out, but posting in case they do.

Yuli and Emma Cunio, 3: Twins kidnapped from Kibbutz Nir Oz with their parents, Sharon and David. Sharon and Danielle Aloni are sisters.


Sharon Aloni Cunio, 33 and her husband David Cunio, 34 and their twin daughters, Yuli and Emma were abducted from Kibbutz Nir Oz on October 7, 2023 (Courtesy)

https://www.timesofisrael.com/taken-captive-two-sisters-and-their-families-from-a-sealed-room/

 

[margarita25]

Who are the two children, the boy and the baby, that the Hamas terrorist was holding in that picture.

 

[margarita25]

Lots of doggie love for Emily.