Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #13

[PrairieWind]

If HAMAS really wanted to negotiate more, it would show a proof of life for every hostage they know of still being held. If the red cross can't/won't visit them to ensure they are safe, then why won't HAMAS share a short video clip to offer proof they are all alive? They could if they wanted to. They have released propaganda videos of hostage releases.. why not show what conditions they are being held in allowing them to say something for the camera to show they are alive and well? They are choosing to play these games and by now having these hostage releases happen in the midst of large crowds of people yelling, delaying and pushing back the release time, changing locations, etc.. it is exactly what they want.. more chaos.

Also without power, how are all those cell phones being charged? The crowds are filled with phones and you can see them lit up.. powered up somehow.

Hams could and would provide proof of life if they were negotiating in good faith. But they aren't. They are wheeling and dealing on the fly, not even sure which hostages they have. They are not providing proof of life because some of the hostages are dead, or badly wounded. Or may not be alive in a few days, thus providing proof of life now would preclude them later saying said hostage died in an air strike. I am quite amazed at Israel's patience on this. But I really think at this point they are just doing what they can to get as many back as they can. Now we will get the inevitable excuses why there is delay in some of the releases, etc. All to buy time. One thing is clear: taking hostages is a good tactical maneuver. I really fear the precedence that is being set and reinforced here.

 

[Friday Fan]

The 12 Israeli hostages released from Hamas captivity tonight: Raz Ben Ami, Yarden Roman, Liat Atzili, Moran Stela Yanai, Liam Or, Itay Regev, Ofir Engel, Amit Shani, Gali Tarshansky, Raaya Rotem, Yelena Trupanob, and her mother Irena Tati.

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Mother and daughter will soon be united!

Girl freed from Gaza without her mom says Hamas separated them, in breach of deal

Uncle says Raaya Rotem was with daughter Hila for most of the 50 days of captivity and in good condition, accuses Hamas of violating agreement not to split up mothers and children

www.timesofisrael.com

​

 

[Simply Southern]

The 12 Israeli hostages released from Hamas captivity tonight: Raz Ben Ami, Yarden Roman, Liat Atzili, Moran Stela Yanai, Liam Or, Itay Regev, Ofir Engel, Amit Shani, Gali Tarshansky, Raaya Rotem, Yelena Trupanob, and her mother Irena Tati.

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Hope they are not attacked on the way out. Moo

 

[Friday Fan]

Hams could and would provide proof of life if they were negotiating in good faith. But they aren't. They are wheeling and dealing on the fly, not even sure which hostages they have. They are not providing proof of life because some of the hostages are dead, or badly wounded. Or may not be alive in a few days, thus providing proof of life now would preclude them later saying said hostage died in an air strike. I am quite amazed at Israel's patience on this. But I really think at this point they are just doing what they can to get as many back as they can. Now we will get the inevitable excuses why there is delay in some of the releases, etc. All to buy time. One thing is clear: taking hostages is a good tactical maneuver. I really fear the precedence that is being set and reinforced here.

Taking hostages is old stuff and is somewhat common in parts of the world.

Israel released 1,027 dangerous Hamas prisoners for one hostage in 2011. At that rate, Hamas probably assumed they hit the jackpot by abducting over 200. It needs to stop.


We stopped the epidemic in the US with the Lindbergh Law in 1932.

 

[PrairieWind]

Mother and daughter will soon be united!

Girl freed from Gaza without her mom says Hamas separated them, in breach of deal

Uncle says Raaya Rotem was with daughter Hila for most of the 50 days of captivity and in good condition, accuses Hamas of violating agreement not to split up mothers and children

www.timesofisrael.com

Girl freed from Gaza without her mom says Hamas separated them, in breach of deal​

So, yet again, Hamas is caught in a lie.

 

[SouthAussie]

A delegation of families of kidnapped Israelis and murdered individuals of the October 7 Hamas massacre in Australia encountered pro-Palestinian protestors who stopped from entering the hotel in Melbourne where they were staying.

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Just to put this in perspective, this has not been reported in any Aussie MSM. Likely because our foreign minister, Penny Wong, has asked that we try to quell the violence here. Not let this war affect Aussie harmony, as we have many refugees here.

The relatives are an uncle of Roni Eshel who was initially thought kidnapped, but later confirmed to be deceased. His 5 person entourage is touring Australia for a week, trying to get Australia involved in calling for the release of the hostages and supporting Israel's military actions.

On the other side of the coin, others are calling for Australia to stop supplying Israel with military equipment because of "human rights abuses".

Our Parliament House in Canberra has cardboard cutouts of people dotted all over its front lawn, representing the hostages.

There are two sides to every story. imo

Relatives and a friend of Israelis kidnapped and killed by Hamas visit Australia's Parliament House

Relatives and a friend of Israelis kidnapped and killed by Hamas are visiting Australia this week and sharing personal stories in an effort to lobby for international support for all hostages to be freed — and to support Israel’s war effort.

apnews.com

Australian arms and ammunition exports to Israel totalled $13m over past five years, data reveals

Greens call for greater transparency around exports to Israel, as Anthony Albanese meets relatives of Israelis taken hostage by Hamas on 7 October

www.theguardian.com

 

[justtrish]

Your post reminded me of two videos with female hostages:
1 with a young woman, and the other with 3 women.

Have these women been released???

IDK their names.

All 3 from the single video have been released! I don't think the girl in the video alone has been released. I am still looking.

Denouncing the video as “cruel psychological propaganda”, Netanyahu identified the three as Yelena Trupanob, Danielle Aloni and Rimon Kirsht.

Hamas releases video of three Gaza hostages addressing Netanyahu

Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu denounces new Hamas hostage video as ‘cruel propaganda’.

www.aljazeera.com

Yelena Trupanob is the Israeli Russian hostage that was released today.

Danielle Aloni is the mother of twins that was released a few days ago.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/taken-captive-two-sisters-and-their-families-from-a-sealed-room/

Rimon Kirsht was released yesterday I think or the day before

Moment ‘hero’ Israeli hostage Rimon Kirsht gives Hamas captor a death stare during release

Rimon Kirsht, 36, was released from Hamas captivity on Tuesday.

nypost.com

 

[fred&edna]

Emphasis mine.
Thanks for the link !
This is so important, b/c it shows what many have suspected about the 'doctors' in Gaza.
No, they're not so busy helping injured Gazans to notice what is going on in the hospital, nor too busy to notice the hostages being brought into the city.
Aiding and abetting Hamas.
Maybe more like Dr. Mengele, or Harold Shipman ?
Forget their Hippocratic Oath, if they even have to take that in Gaza.
Possibly the H.O. is only vowed by doctors in other countries that are not supportive of terrorism ?
Shame on this 'doctor'.
Omo.

Terrorism lived and thrived in, around and under the medical facilities in Gaza. The doctors (and most staff) knew exactly what was going on... especially those who had been there for years.

ETA: Why haven't those news agencies been interviewing Dr Mads Gilbert in more than a week. Could it be... he and they must concoct more lies before another meeting? Dr Mads is in S Africa spreading his lies and fueling anger.


jmo

 

[Chimera]

MOO Likely Hamas propaganda. Hamas bringing out crowds to show Hamas support etc. Trying to show that they're strong MOO

Could be some of both.
Hard to show enthusiasm if you're not feeling it.
That baying crowd looked pretty happy.
Almost a 'party atmosphere'.
How many in that crowd voted for Hamas back in the elections ?
Omo.

 

[Charlot123]

Do we know that Noa is still alive? What is the intelligence on Noa?

Bring Noa home!

I am afraid to even comment.
It is my understanding that her mom is of Chinese ancestry? And very ill?
Theoretically, she should have been released early as she got on camera and so many people in the world are commenting on her.
So, I don't know. I check her name every day.

 

[justtrish]

Hams could and would provide proof of life if they were negotiating in good faith. But they aren't. They are wheeling and dealing on the fly, not even sure which hostages they have. They are not providing proof of life because some of the hostages are dead, or badly wounded. Or may not be alive in a few days, thus providing proof of life now would preclude them later saying said hostage died in an air strike. I am quite amazed at Israel's patience on this. But I really think at this point they are just doing what they can to get as many back as they can. Now we will get the inevitable excuses why there is delay in some of the releases, etc. All to buy time. One thing is clear: taking hostages is a good tactical maneuver. I really fear the precedence that is being set and reinforced here.

Hamas releases video of three Gaza hostages addressing Netanyahu

Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu denounces new Hamas hostage video as ‘cruel propaganda’.

www.aljazeera.com

I agree! The video of the 3 women was released Oct 30th.. AFTER deals fell through because Israel had no proof of life of any of the hostages.. no names, ages, etc. HAMAS said it couldn't get that unless there was a pause in fighting..

Then boom... video surfaces.. BIG surprise there.

Thankfully all 3 of those hostages from that video have been released as of today. It's just all a game to HAMAS.

 

[Friday Fan]

Could be some of both.
Hard to show enthusiasm if you're not feeling it.
That baying crowd looked pretty happy.
Almost a 'party atmosphere'.
How many in that crowd voted for Hamas back in the elections ?
Omo.

I noticed they did this for the two Russian women today and for the Russian young man the other day. When they released the Israelis later, the crowd stood back.

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[Momoffourboys]

For the @fdpsachsenmember of the German Bundestag | @fdpbt | Foreign Affairs Committee


Germany must immediately stop all funds to UNRWA in Gaza. The report that a UNRWA employee was involved in the hostage-taking is unfortunately not surprising and must now finally make it clear to everyone that this institution must not continue to exist in this form.

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[Vern]

It is part of a process in the human condition. Groups of us have been taking over other peoples' lands since time began.
DNA proves that geographically none of us have finished up where our ancestors started out.
Sometimes there is assimilation after the land grab, sometimes there is annihilation but it never works out well for the displaced indigenous peoples whatever.

Human Origins and Ancestry

Genomics is illuminating human and family origins at a level not previously possible.

www.genome.gov

It is the Palestinians at the receiving end this time round. Their only hope is to negotiate their own lebensraum which takes into consideration those living as refugees everywhere as well as in Gaza.
My opinion

I just don't think that "Land Grab" is the appropriate term to be utilizing when:

Israel did not just reach out and touch someone to grab their land. They were the ones attacked, they fought back AND they miraculously won. It was actually the other side that was attempting the "land grab" and the erasing of Jewish peoples from the lands. They lost.

Palestine, Transjordan, Egypt and Syria invaded and initiated war against Israel in 1948 when she had just declared herself as an independent state and was a mere one day old.

Those agressors lost the war and land in the process.

To infer this was an Israeli "land grab" is incorrect and misleading (but there's been 75 years of that); that is simply not in keeping with the facts of what actually occured.

1948:

Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations - Office of the Historian

history.state.gov 3.0 shell

history.state.gov

The Arab-Israeli War of 1948​

The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948. In 1947, and again on May 14, 1948, the United States had offered de facto recognition of the Israeli Provisional Government, but during the war, the United States maintained an arms embargo against all belligerents.

It sure didn't work out well - that's why Palestine wants to go back to it's 1947 borders.

Palestine has rejected "Two-State" solutions on more than one occasion in the 75 years since. Although, as I stated at the begining of this war, a two-state solution would be optimal, I am also quite certain that the dynamics of the October 7th 2023 Massacre has doe much to scuttle any faith and confidence in the belief that Palestine has any desire to agree to such and to live peacefully; The "From Palestine to the Sea" genocidal mantra doesn't hep things out any IMO.

 

[Chimera]

Can you provide the link? Thank you!

Lol, I realize you weren't asking yours truly, but I took a look for some links ?

Here's one link, with the countries :

Administrative detention - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On the far left under the word, Instances, aka the list of nations -- is Jordan !
How fascinating that this is one of the countries that is not experiencing ongoing terror attacks, nor kidnapping of their citizens, since they politely ejected the Palestinians.
At some point -- or after 'stunts' were pulled -- they simply said "No", and, "Goodbye".
Omo.

 

[Vern]

Can you provide the link? Thank you!

Sure,

Sorry, I thought that I linked it, but must have overlooked - I did mention, but here it is:

Administrative detention - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Also take the opportunity to include a listing of the 300 Palestinians considered for release:

IMRA - Wednesday, November 22, 2023 Detailed list of 300 Palestinian "candidates" for release in exchange for Israeli hostages showing age affiliation and why incarcerated

 

[JennieM]

9m ago
Here are the names of the 12 Israeli hostages released by Hamas today, including the two women with dual Israeli and Russian citizenship who were released earlier today:

• Liat Atzili, 49
• Yarden Roman Gat, 36
• Raz Ben Ami, 57
• Raaya Rotem, 54
• Liam Or, 18
• Ofir Engel, 17
• Amit Shani, 16
• Gali Tarshanksy, 13
• Moran Stela Yanai, 40
• Itai Regev, 18
• Elena Trupanov, 50 (released earlier today)
• Irena Tatti, 73 (released earlier today)

Qatar mediator says latest prisoner release would comprise 16 children and 14 women – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

In total, six of those freed tonight were kidnapped from Kibbutz Beeri.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67562488

 

[Friday Fan]

Sure,

Sorry, I thought that I linked it, but must have overlooked - I did mention, but here it is:

Administrative detention - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Also take the opportunity to include a listing of the 300 Palestinians considered for release:

IMRA - Wednesday, November 22, 2023 Detailed list of 300 Palestinian "candidates" for release in exchange for Israeli hostages showing age affiliation and why incarcerated

Yes, I read the list previously. Some have been convicted and sentenced. Some have case numbers, but couldn't find a court date. (They may not publicize pending dates though. Don't know how it works)

Others are held on "Security of an area" violations. No further details are available, No other charges/allegations are available. No case number is assigned. I counted about 60 out of 300.

Throwing rocks can sometimes be like that, but often it's mixed with other charges, or it's worded differently for numerous detainees so it was harder to use the "find" option for those.

 

[Momoffourboys]

(I think his X was hacked….or the pressure is on today)

There are numerous accounts of sexual violence during the abhorrent acts of terror by Hamas on 7 October that must be vigorously investigated and prosecuted.Gender-based violence must be condemned. Anytime. Anywhere.

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[shotgun09]

(I think his X was hacked….or the pressure is on today)

There are numerous accounts of sexual violence during the abhorrent acts of terror by Hamas on 7 October that must be vigorously investigated and prosecuted.Gender-based violence must be condemned. Anytime. Anywhere.

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Me thinks ol Tony boy got a swift kick in the pants from someone, to make that post. A little twistin' goin on there at the UN ?

Welcome to the party, pal !
smh