Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #13

[Momoffourboys]

Aisha Al-Ziadna, 16 years old, is still being held hostage by Hamas in Gaza.She was kidnapped from Israel on October 7, together with her father and two brothers.Bring them home now!

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[Momoffourboys]

Hamas serially abused our children.The survivors were psychologically terrorized.

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[PrairieWind]

I pointed out a specific example of brazen misinformation and propaganda from him.

If you wish, you can instead talk about Hamas.

It doesn’t change what he did.

ETA: I will now need to question everything he says as he’s proven himself to be unreliable in terms of credible information.

But is what he said really "brazen misinformation?"

 

[JennieM]

But is what he said really "brazen misinformation?"

Definitely.

ETA: IMO.

 

[PrairieWind]

Definitely.

Are we referring to his comments about the numbers that support Hamas?

 

[fred&edna]

This is really shameless propaganda.

668 people were interviewed for this survey.

We also had this survey circulate in our thread a few times, and it’s always posted as if it represents 75% of the whole of the Palestinian population despite corrections from other posters.

668 people were interviewed.

https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf

A lot of people make mistakes, even professionals... even in times of war.

I suppose a public apology and correction (or retraction) means nothing to some... especially in times of war.


ETA: A number of people here stated they didn't like nor trust him long before now. Israel and it's people and it's spokespeople seem to be forced to prove truth over and over and over. SM is ruining thinking minds.
I respect him even more, now!

jmo

 

[SouthAussie]

But is what he said really "brazen misinformation?"

I posted a link further back about how many poll respondents are needed in a survey to have a 2% margin of error and 95% confidence in the result. It was 2,000 and something poll respondents, not 668.

I will find the link and add it.

ETA: Based on a population of 2.3 million people (which the UN says resided in Gaza), a survey should comprise of 2,399 people.

Medallia Agile Research

Launch DIY surveys and advanced research analytics with Medallia Agile Research.

www.checkmarket.com

imo

 

[Friday Fan]

Mia potentially might be released because she survived till the video. The other ones, I think HAMAS would have released them. But, never lose hope.

They are young women. Hamas has not released single young women. Naama is also military (intelligence unit, but I think she was new). Military will be released last.

 

[PrairieWind]

I posted a link further back about how many poll respondents are needed in a survey to have a 2% margin of error and 95% confidence in the result. It was 2,000 and something poll respondents, not 668.

I will find the link and add it.

Sure I get that. It may not be a reliable polling. But is there something to refute the numbers? I am guessing if you poll 2,000 you won't get significantly different results. The numbers aren't the point, the point is that the majority of Gazans support Hamas, and I don't think anyone disputes that.

 

[JennieM]

Are we referring to his comments about the numbers that support Hamas?

He said:
#CORRECTION: Tonight on @PiersUncensored, I said 85% of Palestinians support Hamas' October 7 atrocities. That was incorrect. Only 75% support them.


The survey he refers to and where the table he used is pasted from has a total of 668 people questioned.

 

[JennieM]

A lot of people make mistakes, even professionals... even in times of war.

I suppose a public apology and retraction means nothing to some... especially in times of war.


ETA: A number of people here stated they didn't like nor trust him long before now. Israel and it's people and it's spokespeople seem to be forced to prove truth over and over and over. SM is ruining thinking minds.

jmo

His correction has nothing to do with the point I raised.

 

[PrairieWind]

He said:
#CORRECTION: Tonight on @PiersUncensored, I said 85% of Palestinians support Hamas' October 7 atrocities. That was incorrect. Only 75% support them.


The survey he refers to and where the table he used is pasted from has a total of 668 people questioned.

So you dispute that 75% of Gazans support the Oct 7 attack? If I remember correct, he was quoting a Palestinian organization for the numbers.

 

[fred&edna]

His correction has nothing to do with the point I raised.

It's not propaganda if he corrects his statement, is it?? I thought you were saying he was spewing propaganda. Well, I guess it's my mistake. Pardon me.

jmo

 

[otto]

Hamas is the duly elected governing body of Gaza. They speak for the people. And they are lying every day regarding the hostages. Sure Israel engages in propaganda, everyone does. But they also more often than not are telling the truth and support it. Besides, is Eylon spreading lies?

The difference between Hamas and Israel is that Israel will not commit war crimes, Hamas will. Most Hamas propaganda is alleging war crimes, such as alleging that the Al Shifa Hospital was bombed by Israel and thousands of people are buried in the rubble. That was not true, but the allegation implies a war crime.

The recent photos of the released prisoner who was fine when released, and claimed to have two broken arms after they were bandaged by a medical person in Gaza ... propaganda to imply war crimes.

This war of words is effective with people who don't pay much attention to the war. First they hear that the hospital was flattened, then they hear that Israel denies it. Too lazy to look into it, they might believe the accusation, not the denial. They might believe that Israel and Gaza are exchanging hostages during the ceasefire. Propaganda is powerful!

The Hamas government of Gaza should release the remaining hostages, turn over the October 7 mass murderers, and begin rebuilding their nation.

 

[PrairieWind]

The difference between Hamas and Israel is that Israel will not commit war crimes, Hamas will. Most Hamas propaganda is alleging war crimes, such as alleging that the Al Shifa Hospital was bombed by Israel and thousands of people are buried in the rubble. That was not true, but the allegation implies a war crime.

The recent photos of the released prisoner who was fine when released, and claimed to have two broken arms after they were bandaged by a medical person in Gaza ... propaganda to imply war crimes.

This war of words is effective with people who don't pay much attention to the war. First they hear that the hospital was flattened, then they hear that Israel denies it. Too lazy to look into it, they might believe the accusation, not the denial. They might believe that Israel and Gaza are exchanging hostages during the ceasefire. Propaganda is powerful!

The Hamas government of Gaza should release the remaining hostages, turn over the October 7 mass murderers, and begin rebuilding their nation.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Mex]

I just don't think that "Land Grab" is the appropriate term to be utilizing when:

Israel did not just reach out and touch someone to grab their land. They were the ones attacked, they fought back AND they miraculously won. It was actually the other side that was attempting the "land grab" and the erasing of Jewish peoples from the lands. They lost.

Palestine, Transjordan, Egypt and Syria invaded and initiated war against Israel in 1948 when she had just declared herself as an independent state and was a mere one day old.

Those agressors lost the war and land in the process.

To infer this was an Israeli "land grab" is incorrect and misleading (but there's been 75 years of that); that is simply not in keeping with the facts of what actually occured.

1948:

Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations - Office of the Historian

history.state.gov 3.0 shell

history.state.gov

It sure didn't work out well - that's why Palestine wants to go back to it's 1947 borders.

Palestine has rejected "Two-State" solutions on more than one occasion in the 75 years since. Although, as I stated at the begining of this war, a two-state solution would be optimal, I am also quite certain that the dynamics of the October 7th 2023 Massacre has doe much to scuttle any faith and confidence in the belief that Palestine has any desire to agree to such and to live peacefully; The "From Palestine to the Sea" genocidal mantra doesn't hep things out any IMO.

I used the words Land Grab not without giving it some thought

noun

1. the seizing of land by a nation, state, or organization, especially illegally, underhandedly, or unfairly.
   
   
   

   Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

   The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

   www.dictionary.com
   
   What's a land grab?

Imagine waking up one day to be told you’re about to be evicted from your home—being told that you no longer have the right to remain on land that you’ve lived on for years. And then, if you refuse to leave, being forcibly removed. For many communities in developing countries, this is a familiar story.

In the past decade, more than 81 million acres of land worldwide—an area the size of Portugal—has been sold off to foreign investors. Some of these deals are what’s known as land grabs: land deals that happen without the free, prior, and informed consent of communities that often result in farmers being forced from their homes and families left hungry. The term “land grabs” was defined in the Tirana Declaration (2011) by the International Land Coalition, consisting of 116 organizations from community groups to the World Bank.

The truth about land grabs

We all rely on the land—our common ground—and farms to put food on the table. But the world’s farmland is at risk. Here in the US, we have been losing more than an acre of farmland every minute. In developing countries, the rush for land is even more intense.

www.oxfamamerica.org

18 May 2021
Last Saturday was Nakba Day, which commemorates the 700,000 Palestinians who were expelled by Israel – or who fled in fear – during the country’s founding in 1948. The commemoration had special resonance this year, since it was Israel’s impending expulsion of six Palestinian families from the East Jerusalem neighbourhood of Sheikh Jarrah that helped trigger the violent struggle currently engulfing Israel-Palestine. For many Palestinians, that imminent expulsion was evidence that the Nakba has still not come to an end.
__________________________________________

There will be no viable, sovereign Palestinian state to which refugees can go. What remains of the case against Palestinian refugee return is a series of historical and legal arguments, peddled by Israeli and American Jewish leaders, about why Palestinians deserved their expulsion and have no right to remedy it now. These arguments are not only unconvincing but deeply ironic, since they ask Palestinians to repudiate the very principles of intergenerational memory and historical restitution that Jews hold sacred. If Palestinians have no right to return to their homeland, neither do we.

A Jewish case for Palestinian refugee return

The long read: As fraught and imperfect as efforts at historical justice can be, consider what happens when they do not occur. The crimes of the past, when left unaddressed, do not remain in the past

www.theguardian.com

 

[JennieM]

So you dispute that 75% of Gazans support the Oct 7 attack? If I remember correct, he was quoting a Palestinian organization for the numbers.

What he said:


#CORRECTION: Tonight on @PiersUncensored, I said 85% of Palestinians support Hamas' October 7 atrocities. That was incorrect. Only 75% support them.


based on data from here:

https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf

IMO is vastly misleading and you can of course disagree.

 

[Vern]

<RSBM>
I do NOT understand taking the "protest" to the point you harm victims of the Oct 7th massacre.

It does nothing for Palestinians to prevent the family members of VICTIMS from going to their hotel. What message does that send them? Their loved one that was killed Oct 7th or that is being held by terrorists.. is not important.

It sends a very dehumanizing message doesn't it?

Israeli lives and atrocities against them don't matter. That's the message I personally get when <modsnip: name calling not allowed> deliberately target persons whom they know are the original and direct victims of the October 7th Massacre.

I sure don't put that in the category of 'peace loving".

 

[Vern]

And how many were rescued by the Army?

One.

The lives of hostages depend solely on diplomatic efforts/negotiations IMO.

This is exactly why there are hostages.

Prior negotiations that got Hamas some high-value terrorists back into their fold.

Negotiating with terrorists means that the illegal war crime and cycle of taking hostages will, simpy, continue. Hamas has learned the value of taking them.

At some point in time, that needs to, and is going to end.

 

[Friday Fan]

This is exactly why there are hostages.
Prior negotiations that got Hamas some high-value terrorists back into their fold.
Negotiating with terrorists means that the illegal war crime and cycle of taking hostages will, simpy, continue. Hamas has learned the value of taking them.
At some point in time, that needs to, and is going to end.

Amen to that!!!