Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #14

[Wishbone]

Hamas' Oct. 7 attack on southern Israel was known by Israeli officials more than a year before it happened but did not take action because they believed it would not be carried out, according to a New York Times report that reviewed documents, emails and interviews.

Israel Knew of Hamas’ Devastating Attack Plan More Than a Year Ago: NYT

The attack on Israel in early October killed around 1,200 people, and officials were aware of the battle plans prior to the invasion, the Times reported

themessenger.com

Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan More Than a Year Ago (Published 2023)

A blueprint reviewed by The Times laid out the attack in detail. Israeli officials dismissed it as aspirational and ignored specific warnings.

www.nytimes.com

 

[fred&edna]

Only now after Palestinian terrorists massacre civilians do those protesters come out of their tik-tok hidey-holes wanting to preach history lessons and blame Israel and the Jewish people for their own destructive behavior.

jmo

 

[Charlot123]

Though citizenship is not always based on country of birth. For example, my DD attained British citizenship based on my father's British citizenship ... by descent. She has never even been to England.

My DD actually holds a British passport, and a US passport, and an Australian passport. Three "citizenships", one country of residence.

It seems that Israeli citizenship can be attained by being born there, or from the parents citizenship (descent), or through marriage, or by naturalisation ... and there are a couple of other ways, as stated in this link.

How to get Israeli citizenship, including by marriage - Full Guide

How to get Israeli citizenship: in this article we're exlaining the ways to obtain Israeli citizenship, Emphasis on how to obtain Israeli citizenship through marriage

www.dangel-law.co.il

Yes, I know a woman whose father was born in Germany, and she considered getting German citizenship because of chronic physical illness (insurance).

About the former Commonwealth, I suspect "it's complicated" (once met a New Zealander whose BF said she did not want to obtain US citizenship because it would deprive her of British one...(I am still perplexed, maybe someone from NZ can explain how it works?).

Citizenship of Israel can be obtained by being born or via marriage or by immigrating ("the law of return"). For immigration, actually, 1/4 Jewish blood, on any side, is enough (comes from the Nazi times when 1/4 was considered Jewish).

But being a "citizen" and being considered "a Jew" in Israel are two different things. After all, Israeli Arabs may also be the citizens of Israel. Or, Israeli Christians, or Druzes. But: because Israel is not a secular state, from what i heard, it would be convenient to be a Jewish citizen there, not just Israeli one. I think things are getting easier, but still. To be a Jew, one has to: be born from mother who is Jewish, or be born from a woman whose mother is Jewish, or convert. Conversion may be a tedious process.

 

[SouthAussie]

About the former Commonwealth, I suspect "it's complicated" (once met a New Zealander whose BF said she did not want to obtain US citizenship because it would deprive her of British one...(I am still perplexed, maybe someone from NZ can explain how it works?).

Probably the same reason that I did not go for US citizenship when I lived there. I would have had to relinquish my Aussie & British citizenships (US law).

I had no immediate blood ties to the US ... which changes things and allows dual US citizenship. Being married to a US citizen didn't change things.

imo

 

[Momoffourboys]

Yes, I know a woman whose father was born in Germany, and she considered getting German citizenship because of chronic physical illness (insurance).

About the former Commonwealth, I suspect "it's complicated" (once met a New Zealander whose BF said she did not want to obtain US citizenship because it would deprive her of British one...(I am still perplexed, maybe someone from NZ can explain how it works?).

Citizenship of Israel can be obtained by being born or via marriage or by immigrating ("the law of return"). For immigration, actually, 1/4 Jewish blood, on any side, is enough (comes from the Nazi times when 1/4 was considered Jewish).

But being a "citizen" and being considered "a Jew" in Israel are two different things. After all, Israeli Arabs may also be the citizens of Israel. Or, Israeli Christians, or Druzes. But: because Israel is not a secular state, from what i heard, it would be convenient to be a Jewish citizen there, not just Israeli one. I think things are getting easier, but still. To be a Jew, one has to: be born from mother who is Jewish, or be born from a woman whose mother is Jewish, or convert. Conversion may be a tedious process.

Non Jews have the same rights as Jewish Israelis. Always have.
Even the laws of marriage and conversion have loosened up tremendously. Not to mention, same sex relationships are now recognized (you can’t marry in Israel but if you are married, you are entitled to common law rights). Back in the day, you would never see an Israeli with a tattoo, now, most Israelis have tattoos. Just a few examples, but, Israel has transformed drastically in the past 20 years.

 

[Charlot123]

Non Jews have the same rights as Jewish Israelis. Always have.
Even the laws of marriage and conversion have loosened up tremendously. Not to mention, same sex relationships are now recognized (you can’t marry in Israel but if you are married, you are entitled to common law rights). Back in the day, you would never see an Israeli with a tattoo, now, most Israelis have tattoos. Just a few examples, but, Israel has transformed drastically in the past 20 years.

What about interfaith marriage?

 

[Momoffourboys]

What about interfaith marriage?

Many ways around that, the easiest being traveling to Cypress or Malta. But there are many that married out of the faith. Half of Israelis are secular and about 10% of all married couples in Israel are interfaith marriages. Once registered, the same rights apply. The laws may have even changed since the influx of Russian immigration.

 

[Chimera]

Mia Schem's aunt: 'She was operated on in Gaza by a veterinarian'

Schem appeared in a video by Hamas early after October 7 having just come out of surgery.

www.jpost.com

"The aunt of released Israeli hostage Mia Schem told Israel media on Thursday that her niece had been "operated on in Gaza by a veterinarian.
Her aunt's statement contradicts what Schem stated in the video while in Hamas custody..."
Obviously (Imo) coerced and made to appear 'well' in the video !
Disgraceful for Hamas to get a veterinarian to operate on her hand.
She may need corrective surgery to fix the mistakes.
Animal doctors are not trained to repair a human hand.

There are many hospitals in Gaza.
What were the doctors occupied with, that none of them could tend to this helpless hostage ?
Were the doctors torturing the hostages for information ?
Particularly Al Shifa (?) where the footage of the terrified abductees were dragged down the hallways.

Hamas terrorists took hostages into Gaza hospital, Shifa cameras prove

One video shows a group of Hamas terrorists dragging a man into one of the hospital entrances, clearly against his will since he openly resists.

www.jpost.com

One video shows a group of Hamas terrorists dragging a man into one of the hospital entrances, clearly against his will since he openly resists.​

Another video shows a man on a stretcher who appears to have been wounded in his chest, with a large amount of blood coming out, as well as with one of his legs severed.
In the second video, it looked like his leg was just hanging down. But when they turned the stretcher, his dangling foot should have shown ?

Israel says soldier executed, foreign hostages held at Gaza's Shifa hospital

Israel said Hamas killed 19-year-old army conscript Noa Marciano. The military also published video of what it described as a tunnel beneath the Shifa compound. Hamas has denied that tunnels are located in civilian infrastructure.

www.reuters.com

Separately on Sunday, the Israeli military published video of what it described as a tunnel, running 55 metres in length and dug by Palestinians 10 metres under the Shifa compound.

While acknowledging that it has a network of hundreds of kilometers of secret tunnels, bunkers and access shafts throughout the Palestinian enclave, Hamas has denied that these are located in civilian infrastructure like hospitals.

The video showed a narrow passage with arched concrete roofing, ending at what the military, in a statement, described as a blast-proof door.

The statement did not say what might be beyond the door. The tunnel had been accessed through a shaft discovered in a shed within the Al Shifa compound that contained munitions, it said. A second video showed an outdoor shaft-opening in the compound.

Mounir El Barsh, the Gaza health ministry director, dismissed the Israeli statement on the tunnel as a "pure lie".
Red emphasis mine.

Regarding the tunnel system and other transparent fabrications made by M.E. Barsh, I think it's safe to say that the Gazan health ministry and indeed much of the Gazan medical institutions are sketchy at best in what they claim to be ?
The IDF showed video and photographic proof of the tunnels, the only reason for not forging ahead inside them, is the possibility of booby traps and other dangers.
It's going to take time.
Omo.

 

[ilovewings]

Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan More Than a Year Ago (Published 2023)

A blueprint reviewed by The Times laid out the attack in detail. Israeli officials dismissed it as aspirational and ignored specific warnings.

www.nytimes.com

This is a jaw dropping article from the NY Times- it states that Israel was aware of the planned attack by Hamas that occurred on October 7, but they pooh poohed the information, believing the planned attack was "aspirational" and that Hamas was not capable of carrying out an attack of that magnitude. If true, and the authors state they have documentation to back this up, it is beyond comprehension- and reveals an arrogance beyond belief.

 

[Friday Fan]

Probably the same reason that I did not go for US citizenship when I lived there. I would have had to relinquish my Aussie & British citizenships (US law).

I had no immediate blood ties to the US ... which changes things and allows dual US citizenship. Being married to a US citizen didn't change things.

imo

Are you sure it's a US law? US recognizes dual citizenship. People like to get dual citizenship with Mexico because it's fairly easy and the Mexican passport allows them to travel to places that a US passport won't.

 

[Charlot123]

Many ways around that, the easiest being traveling to Cypress or Malta. But there are many that married out of the faith. Half of Israelis are secular and about 10% of all married couples in Israel are interfaith marriages. Once registered, the same rights apply. The laws may have even changed since the influx of Russian immigration.

Interesting, I actually know some Jewish/Russian families here, who lived in Israel and for some reason, Russian husbands adapted faster than their Jewish wives. After October 7th, these Russian men were hanging out Israeli flags.

 

[Momoffourboys]

The last days of Hamas’ office in Qatar?​

After Hamas releases all of its hostages, the Biden administration will consider demanding that Qatar shutter the militant groups’ office in the country.

Such a move, if executed, would be a significant reprimand for Hamas and an embarrassment for Qatar, the non-NATO ally that has served as a conduit for hostage talks with the militants.
…
“We have made clear that following Oct. 7 there can be no more business as usual with Hamas,” said a senior administration official, granted anonymity to discuss a sensitive diplomatic matter. “This is a discussion we will continue to have with partners in the region.”
…
“The time has come for an honest reflection on the role Qatar played in building up Hamas and the steps that will need to be taken to dismantle all Qatari support for Hamas going forward,” said RICHARD GOLDBERG, a former Trump National Security Council official now at The Foundation for Defense of Democracies think tank. In addition to ensuring the office’s closure, Goldberg suggests stripping Qatar of its non-NATO ally status or designating it a state sponsor of terrorism.

Qatar has long argued such stances are unfair. MESHAL BIN HAMAD AL THANI, the country’s ambassador in the U.S., wrote in an October Wall Street Journal op-ed that the office relocated there “after a request from Washington to establish indirect lines of communication with Hamas.”

If the U.S. asked for the Hamas office to operate in Qatar, it could effectively order it closed and have its leadership ejected. Qatar, home to a major American military airbase, could reject the demand, but U.S. officials and experts argue Doha would grant Washington’s wish.

The last days of Hamas’ office in Qatar?

There’s a gnawing fear that closing Hamas’ political outpost would complicate any future backchannel between the U.S., Israel and the group.

www.politico.com

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan More Than a Year Ago (Published 2023)

A blueprint reviewed by The Times laid out the attack in detail. Israeli officials dismissed it as aspirational and ignored specific warnings.

www.nytimes.com

This is a jaw dropping article from the NY Times- it states that Israel was aware of the planned attack by Hamas that occurred on October 7, but they pooh poohed the information, believing the planned attack was "aspirational" and that Hamas was not capable of carrying out an attack of that magnitude. If true, and the authors state they have documentation to back this up, it is beyond comprehension- and reveals an arrogance beyond belief.

I don't think it is realized that many terrorists plan attacks all over the world, as often as they breathe, and many countries are constantly evaluating the threats. What major terrorist attack has not had claims that there were warnings or intelligence that something was afoot? Underestimating or thinking a plan so outrageous was out of reach of Hamas, does not change Hamas's responsibility for what they did nor lessen the outrage that should be directed solely at them.

 

[JennieM]

• Despite the pause, there has been almost no improvement in the access of residents in the north to water, as most of the main water production facilities remain shut down, due to the lack of fuel and some also due to damages. Concerns about dehydration and waterborne diseases due to water consumption from unsafe sources persist.

• One of the partially operational hospitals in the north, Kamal Adwan in Jabalia, urgently requires supplies and medical staff in the fields of obstetrics, paediatrics, neonatology, surgery, and orthopaedics. Eighty of its patients require immediate transfer to a better-equipped facility in the south for their survival. On 28 and 29 November, no evacuations of patients and wounded people from hospitals in the north to those in the south took place.

United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied Palestinian territory | Hostilities in the Gaza Strip and Israel | Flash Update #54

On 28 November, for the fifth consequent day, the humanitarian pause enabled humanitarian actors, primarily the Egyptian and Palestinian Red Crescent Societies and UN agencies, to enhance the delivery of assistance into and across Gazai. As reportedly agreed upon by Israel and Hamas, the initial...

www.ochaopt.org

 

[Momoffourboys]

I’ve been following “Whispered in Gaza” since the first episode more than a year ago. If you want an unfiltered voice of true Palestinian agony under Hamas oppression in Gaza, I suggest you follow ⁦@josephbraude
⁩ and read this. Not approved by Hamas.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1730366330425991651

 

[Momoffourboys]

Are you sure it's a US law? US recognizes dual citizenship. People like to get dual citizenship with Mexico because it's fairly easy and the Mexican passport allows them to travel to places that a US passport won't.

Here is a US dual citizenship list as of 2023

Visa and Travel Tips - VisaGuide.World

visaguide.world

 

[ilovewings]

I don't think it is realized that many terrorists plan attacks all over the world, as often as they breathe, and many countries are constantly evaluating the threats. What major terrorist attack has not had claims that there were warnings or intelligence that something was afoot? Underestimating or thinking a plan so outrageous was out of reach of Hamas, does not change Hamas's responsibility for what they did nor lessen the outrage that should be directed solely at them.

Of course what Hamas did was heinous---but if Israel had information about the scope of the planned
Attack and did nothing to protect the citizens of Israel, then they have Israeli blood on their hands and
Blood on their souls.

 

[Friday Fan]

'A mass assassination factory': Inside Israel's calculated bombing of Gaza.

Permissive airstrikes on non-military targeted and the use of an artificial intelligence system have enabled the Israeli army to carry out its deadliest war on Gaza, a +972 and Local Call investigation reveals.
_____________________________________

Compared to previous Israeli assaults on Gaza, the current war — which Israel has named “Operation Iron Swords,” and which began in the wake of the Hamas-led assault on southern Israel on October 7 — has seen the army significantly expand its bombing of targets that are not distinctly military in nature. These include private residences as well as public buildings, infrastructure, and high-rise blocks, which sources say the army defines as “power targets” (“matarot otzem”).
Several of the sources, who spoke to +972 and Local Call on the condition of anonymity, confirmed that the Israeli army has files on the vast majority of potential targets in Gaza — including homes — which stipulate the number of civilians who are likely to be killed in an attack on a particular target. This number is calculated and known in advance to the army’s intelligence units, who also know shortly before carrying out an attack roughly how many civilians are certain to be killed.
_____________________________________

“Nothing happens by accident,” said another source. “When a 3-year-old girl is killed in a home in Gaza, it’s because someone in the army decided it wasn’t a big deal for her to be killed — that it was a price worth paying in order to hit [another] target. We are not Hamas. These are not random rockets. Everything is intentional. We know exactly how much collateral damage there is in every home.”

‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza

Permissive airstrikes on non-military targets and the use of an AI system have enabled the Israeli army to carry out its deadliest war on Gaza.

www.972mag.com

Wow. It took me quite awhile to read this. Thank you!

 

[Momoffourboys]

Of course what Hamas did was heinous---but if Israel had information about the scope of the planned
Attack and did nothing to protect the citizens of Israel, then they have Israeli blood on their hands and
Blood on their souls.

Whether or not there are Israeli intelligence failures to blame for 10/7 has zero bearing on Hamas’s culpability for ever person they killed, kidnapped, and injured. Just as Osama bin Laden didn’t become less guilty because the US could have predicted his terrorist attack.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Of course what Hamas did was heinous---but if Israel had information about the scope of the planned
Attack and did nothing to protect the citizens of Israel, then they have Israeli blood on their hands and
Blood on their souls.

Israel has hardly just thrown up its hand the past year and intentionally ignored intelligence of this specific attack. If something was suspected a year ago and it never materialized, this is probably a common occurrence for all countries. There have been other threats that were dealt with and stopped during the past year.
All irrelevant and antisemitic propaganda that Israel welcomed the attack.
The Oklahoma bombing and 911, same propaganda/conspiracy garbage is still being spewed, not just a coincidence that some of it is antisemitic also.