Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #14

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  • #621
Why should they have to live like that?

(I found this article interesting btw

But to answer your question, it ended up so bad that even Hassidic Jews are joining the army. Which is big time against their religion and lifestyle. I guess maybe the same applies to religious holidays, is it worth while losing one's life over them? To add, because of the climate autumn is the best time for the US Jews to come and visit. I think it has to be taken into consideration to not end up in such a horrible hostage situation.
 
  • #622


Smoke, crater following Israeli strike in Gaza’s Khan Yunis | AFP


When Gazans have had "enough", maybe they'll drag Hamas out of hiding, or "rat them out" to IDF. If Hamas truly hides in houses, schools, mosques, hospitals (basically  everywhere), the "civilians" have to know where they are, imo.
 
  • #623
  • #624
Absolutely. But, and I shouldn’t delve into politics deeply, but I remember how Netanyyahu was chastising Obama during the visit to the US. Chastising my President… Thank god Obama has a really easygoing personality, but that behavior was boorish to say the least. And in general, how many years Bibi can be in power?

World leaders can chastise other world leaders, especially if they have reason to do so. Is this the visit where Prime Minister Netanyahu was invited to speak before Congress, invited by Congress? IIRC.
 
  • #625
Bombs from Gaza have continuously rained down on Israel since this war began. Why doesn't anyone criticise that?

Israel is being criticised because their bombs are more lethal and effective. But Gaza has been bombing Israel continuously since October. Is Israel supposed to ignore that?

Hamas purposely broke the cease fire by resuming its bombing of Israel. Did they not expect that to trigger more bombing from Israel in response?

Hamas started this war after spending two years and millions of dollars planning this violent massacre upon Israel.
Now, after the massacre is over, and the horrible damage continues with the hostages and the grief, everyone expects them to have mercy and forgiveness towards the enemy---who is still bombing them and publicly threatening another massacre.


Terror groups have fired more than 7,400 rockets into Israel since October 7, says a government representative.

According to Government Press Office figures, the Iron Dome intercepted over 1,100 of these rockets, 550 misfired and fell inside Gaza, and more than 400 directly hit Israel.

The figures did not account for several thousand rockets, many of which may have fallen in open areas, although the government did not immediately qualify the discrepancy.
RBBM

Because the anti-Semitism is a problem around the world. Because of that people see Israel as the power that should show restraint against the poor people of Gaza who are being held back by Israel and it's blockade.

Why is there a blockade?? HAMAS
Why is Gaza in this situation? HAMAS
Why is Gaza and it's people living like they are HAMAS
Why can't they travel freely.. I'd say other countries don't want them because of fear of HAMAS.. not them.. but their "leaders" that incite violence and promote terrorism.

HAMAS was firing rockets long before Oct 7th also and Israel intercepted them and went on with life. After Oct 7th, Israel can't and shouldn't look the other way.. now once again Israel is the bad guy somehow.

Funny how HAMAS's goal is eliminating Jews.. Genocide.. a Holocaust.. that is what success is for HAMAS.. the world doesn't bat an eye about that.

Yet here we are.. people saying Israel is committing genocide because it's trying to eliminate HAMAS.. not Palestinians.

I don't think people committing genocide give maps to safety, pre-warn people in an attempt to remove them from the danger zones, provide security along the safe routes so people can move out of harms way.. etc.

Yeah that is not how it works. Sad that things get so twisted just to blame Jews for what HAMAS has done. The true evil here and the only one that is calling for genocide is HAMAS. Yet, they are seen as "freedom fighters" and talked about as if they were the best hostage hosts ever.. just so nice.. :rolleyes:
 
  • #626
How do we know unless it is tried?


RE negotiations with Hamas.

I take the Hamas charter at face value, the attack on Oct 7 and the recent statement of no regrets, and claiming an endless supply of soldiers to invade Israel.
The charter and Sinwar are consistent.

How does one get an organization to concede that they can't act on their religious convictions that they are appointed and required to remove Jews from earth?

Who can remove them from power?
 
  • #627

 
  • #628
How do we know unless it is tried?
But hasn't it been tried for a LONG time already? And can Sinwar speak for Gaza? He doesn't speak for the West Bank, and he can't speak for PIJ. I am all for peace talks, but it seems Israel has too. You can't have one-side peace talks. To have the talks like were reference in the Irish example, you would have to ensure that Iran and Hezbollah are out. But Iran's Quds force is soooo deeply ingrained in Gaza now that I don't see how that can happen because Iran doesn't want to see a Palestinian peace deal.
 
  • #629
Sure— it was also in the part of the article I snipped:

“In the session with the Palestinians, the pope wept as they spoke of the massive death toll, said Shireen Hilal, a professor who lost two family members. She and others in attendance said Francis used the word “genocide” in English.”

So we don't have a quote from the Pope, just from a Palestinian professor. Not quite the same.
 
  • #630

An unconditional surrender would stop the bombing.
 
  • #631
49 min ago

White House won't say if US has seen more deliberate targeting from Israel since fighting resumed​

From CNN's Samantha Waldenberg and Donald Judd

National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby declined to say if the US has seen more deliberate targeting from Israel since following the expiration of the truce early Friday.

"I'm just not going to armchair quarterback," he told CNN's MJ Lee.

Israel is “a sovereign country -- they make these decisions, they write these plans, they execute them, they should speak to them,” Kirby said. “What I can tell you is that we have been clear and consistent since the very beginning about the need to abide by the law of war and to minimize civilian casualties and to do everything that you can in targeting to make it precise, deliberate, cautious and careful.”

Kirby also declined to weigh in on reports from Gaza’s Hamas-run Ministry of Health that Israeli strikes have killed more than 100 Palestinians since the truce expired.

“The Israelis made it clear that without a pause in place, that they were going to restore operations against Hamas – that is for them to speak to, I've been scrupulously avoiding doing a play by play for them,” he said. “We believe they have every right and responsibility to conduct operations against Hamas – we also believe that they carry a special burden, and Secretary (Antony) Blinken has talked about that special burden, including just in his last trip to the region: to avoid civilian casualties to the maximum extent possible, to be as precise and targeted and deliberate as they can be.”

Thousands of people have been killed in Gaza since the Israel-Hamas war began, many of them civilians, including women and children. Since the end of the truce and the resumption of fighting, Israel is facing increased pressure to employ more calculated techniques to minimize civilian casualties in the next stage of the war.

 
  • #632
So we don't have a quote from the Pope, just from a Palestinian professor. Not quite the same.
I found this article explaining a little bit about who said what. The vatican denied the pope used that word.

If the pope clearly meant to say it was genocide, I think the Vatican would have confirmed that is what he said and he likely would have said it publicly, not in a private meeting with Palestinians.

 
  • #633
An unconditional surrender would stop the bombing.

If an unconditional surrender did happen now and the bombing stopped now, what happens next?

Is there a plan what will happen in Gaza and to Palestinians? And who will rebuilt Gaza? Will all the displaced people carry on living in tents and ruins until Gaza is rebuilt?
 
  • #634
There is a lot of presumption there ... that Sinwar does not want a peaceful existence, eventually. That Sinwar can be happy with the restrictions thrust upon the Palestinians. For example.

None of us knows, and none of us can see because the situation is so volatile now. On both sides.

Israel's apparent solution is to assassinate Sinwar. Eradicate the people.

How about try talking with each other? What harm can that do? Maybe if they see each other as humans, and not as "animals" and "imprisoners" they can work out a way to fairly share the land without killing each other.

imo
I would agree with you,  if I thought for two seconds that Sinwar was a  rational human being. But I can't see him as merely passionate--zealous, even. I see him as someone who has sincerely, completely lost his capacity for reason and empathy. There is no "talking" to someone like that, imo. Would love to be wrong about that...
 
  • #635
(I found this article interesting btw

But to answer your question, it ended up so bad that even Hassidic Jews are joining the army. Which is big time against their religion and lifestyle. I guess maybe the same applies to religious holidays, is it worth while losing one's life over them? To add, because of the climate autumn is the best time for the US Jews to come and visit. I think it has to be taken into consideration to not end up in such a horrible hostage situation.
The Orthodox Jews and Hassidic Jews are exempt from service in the IDF. It is not against their religion or life style. Some choose to serve, others choose to study Torah and do not. According to Talmudic teachings, one who saves a life saves the whole world (including your own).
 
  • #636
I found this article explaining a little bit about who said what. The vatican denied the pope used that word.

If the pope clearly meant to say it was genocide, I think the Vatican would have confirmed that is what he said and he likely would have said it publicly, not in a private meeting with Palestinians.

Here we are new dispute with Palestinians !
 
  • #637
BY GABY WINE DECEMBER 01, 2023 rbbm.
View attachment 465179
''Leading activist and writer Nimco Ali has condemned “the silence” from international women’s rights organisations surrounding the sexual violence against women and girls perpetrated by Hamas on October 7.

A non-governmental commission set up in Israel shortly after October 7 found evidence of women and girls being raped, tortured and mutilated.

In a column in the Evening Standard this week, Ali, who is at the forefront of the campaign to end the practice of FGM, wrote: “I have been beyond distressed to see so many of my colleagues and counterparts ignore what happened on October 7.

“[The] silence from international women’s organisations in failing to condemn Hamas’s use of sexual violence against Israeli women is deafening as well as dangerous.

“There are no two sides to women being raped and murdered, and in not being clear, we are complicit in the legitimisation of terror groups using rape and kidnapping as a tool in their oppression of women and girls.”


Ali, who received an OBE in 2019 for her activism, wrote that when she posted a video on social media, saying that rape “should never be tolerated during any war”, the replies she received were “horrific. People have convinced themselves that the evidence put forward by Israeli witnesses of mass rape is all a lie.”

''After speaking out on social media in support of Israeli victims of October 7, Ali, who was born in Somaliland and now lives in London, told the JC that she became the target of death threats and “couldn’t get a taxi since, if the taxi driver was Somali, for example, he would just shout at me”.
Bravo to her for speaking out!
 
  • #638
So we don't have a quote from the Pope, just from a Palestinian professor. Not quite the same.

So we don't have a quote from the Pope, just from a Palestinian professor. Not quite the same.

She quoted what she heard the Pope say when he was moved to tears by the plight of the Palestinian people. I choose to believe her account.
 
  • #639
I found this article explaining a little bit about who said what. The vatican denied the pope used that word.

If the pope clearly meant to say it was genocide, I think the Vatican would have confirmed that is what he said and he likely would have said it publicly, not in a private meeting with Palestinians.


I think the Vatican is proceeding very carefully. IMO.
 
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  • #640
Prof. Itay Pesach, head of children’s hospital in Tel Aviv who treated 12 of the children hostages that were returned to Israel: “They were severely abused, both psychologically and in other ways. When they’ll start telling their stories none of us will be able to sleep at night”. Prof. Pesach told
@N12News that it appears some hostages were treated slightly better than others because Hamas wanted to showcase their condition to the world upon their release.

 
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