Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #14

[SouthAussie]

There is one big problem with the above---although I do agree with and appreciate your sentiments for peaceful negotiations.

The problem now is that Sinwar spent the past 2 years in secret but insincere peace negotiations with Bibi. He did so to lull Bibi into the false belief that Hamas was wanting to come to a treaty of some kind for future solution.

All that phoney negotiations were going on while Sinwar was actually setting up for his massive Massacre last October.

So IMO< there is no possibility that Bibi will ever negotiate with Sinwar again.

Weren't they hostage talks? Not long term solution talks? If I am mistaken, maybe could you point me in the direction of where to read about it? (I just tried googling.)

There is little point in taking little bites of the apple. What the leaders need to do is talk about long term solutions.

Five years ago Sinwar was saying this ... “A new war with Israel is in neither party’s ‎‎interest. Certainly not ours” ... "Who would want to pit ‎four slingshots against a nuclear power? War will ‎achieve nothing.” ‎.... ‎‎”calm in exchange for calm and an end to the siege. ‎The siege is not calm.”‎ Link

So what happened? Encroaching settlements on Palestinian land? Something else?

imo

 

[Chimera]

It does as long as Hamas continued to hide behind those civilians and children. Sorry.

Don't be too sorry, sadly.

There's evidence of Hamas using kids as human shields.
Beyond nauseating.
Hamas is killing these civilians. Not the IDF.
Hoping the parents will stand up and say; "No. This ends now. We are going to help the IDF in any way we are able as long as you (Hamas) are murdering our children."
The civilians need to start doing this before they have no family left.
Omo.

 

[JennieM]

21:01

Regev says Israel paid for 7 October with 'the blood of our people'​

In further comments to The Context on BBC News, Regev addresses the Israeli intelligence failures that allowed Hamas to launch its unprecedented assault nearly eight weeks ago.

The senior adviser to the Israeli PM was asked about a report in the New York Times on Thursday, which alleged that an Israeli colonel knew more than a year ago that Hamas was planning a wide-ranging attack on an unspecified date.

Regev responded: "7 October was a terrible, horrific day for Israel and we paid for our failure in the blood of our people. That's the bottom line.

"From an Israeli perspective, it was just like Yom Kippur in 1973 when we were attacked from the north by Syria, and Egypt in the south, and they took us by surprise as well," he said.

"It's clear there was a failure and, like in 1973, when the war is over I'm sure there will be a commission of inquiry."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67584895

 

[Dotta]

So we don't have a quote from the Pope, just from a Palestinian professor. Not quite the same.

From my country's MSM

"The Pope calls to extend the ceasefire in the Gaza Strip.​

'Peace, please, peace,
may the truce in Gaza continue and may all hostages be released'

Pope Francis appealed in his morning catechesis, still suffering from a lung infection, in the Paul VI Hall with thousands of the faithful.

'There is a lack of water,
there is a lack of bread, people are suffering,
they are simple people',

the pope added

'Let us pray for peace.

War is a failure,
everyone loses.

Only one group wins,
the arms manufacturers who profit from the deaths of others'."

Papież wezwał do wyjścia na drogi i przedłużenia rozejmu w Strefie Gazy

"Pokój, proszę, pokój, niech rozejm w Strefie Gazy będzie kontynuowany i niech wszyscy zakładnicy zostaną uwolnieni" - zaapelował papież Franciszek.

omnesmag.com

"The Palestinians received by the Pope shared their pain.​

'Nowhere in Gaza is safe',

recalls Suhair Anastas.
A Palestinian woman escaped from the besieged territory with her daughter a few days ago because she has a Canadian passport.
Yesterday she belonged to the group that was personally received by the Pope.

There,
'everyone told the story of their experiences, these stories were different, but they ended the same:

people dying,
buildings collapsing on children's heads,
loss of families',

the woman points out."

Palestyńczycy, których przyjął Papież, podzielili się swoim bólem - Vatican News

„Nigdzie w Gazie nie jest bezpiecznie” – wspomina Suhair Anastas. Palestynka wydostała się wraz ze swoją córką kilka dni temu z oblężonego terytorium, ...

www.vaticannews.va

 

[justtrish]

Weren't they hostage talks? Not long term solution talks? If I am mistaken, maybe could you point me in the direction of where to read about it? (I just tried googling.)

There is little point in taking little bites of the apple. What the leaders need to do is talk about long term solutions.

Five years ago Sinwar was saying this ... “A new war with Israel is in neither party’s ‎‎interest. Certainly not ours” ... "Who would want to pit ‎four slingshots against a nuclear power? War will ‎achieve nothing.” ‎.... " ‎‎”calm in exchange for calm and an end to the siege. ‎The siege is not calm.”‎ Link

So what happened? Encroaching settlements on Palestinian land? Something else?

imo

I think trusting the words of a known terrorist is like believing a child with chocolate on his face saying he didn't eat the chocolate.

What happened is terrorists terrorize. He doesn't have to have a reason. If a person believes that removing all Jews from the earth is a justifiable goal, then they do not get a seat at the table for negations.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Don't be too sorry, sadly.

There's evidence of Hamas using kids as human shields.
Beyond nauseating.
Hamas is killing these civilians. Not the IDF.
Hoping the parents will stand up and say; "No. This ends now. We are going to help the IDF in any way we are able as long as you (Hamas) are murdering our children."
The civilians need to start doing this before they have no family left.
Omo.

As soon as Palestinians are ready to live next to Israel and not instead of Israel, peace will come.

 

[Mex]

Bombs from Gaza have continuously rained down on Israel since this war began. Why doesn't anyone criticise that?

Israel is being criticised because their bombs are more lethal and effective. But Gaza has been bombing Israel continuously since October. Is Israel supposed to ignore that?

Hamas purposely broke the cease fire by resuming its bombing of Israel. Did they not expect that to trigger more bombing from Israel in response?

Hamas started this war after spending two years and millions of dollars planning this violent massacre upon Israel.
Now, after the massacre is over, and the horrible damage continues with the hostages and the grief, everyone expects them to have mercy and forgiveness towards the enemy---who is still bombing them and publicly threatening another massacre.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/over-7400-rockets-fired-into-israel-since-start-of-war-says-government/

Terror groups have fired more than 7,400 rockets into Israel since October 7, says a government representative.

According to Government Press Office figures, the Iron Dome intercepted over 1,100 of these rockets, 550 misfired and fell inside Gaza, and more than 400 directly hit Israel.

The figures did not account for several thousand rockets, many of which may have fallen in open areas, although the government did not immediately qualify the discrepancy.

So far as I can make out rockets from Gaza are either intercepted or go madly off track and hit the Palestinian enclave or its people.
The value of rockets so far as I can see is as a PR tool for the IDF.

Snip
There was no immediate comment from Hamas or claim of responsibility for the launch. Israel's military said its Iron Dome missile defence system had intercepted the projectile.

Israel intercepts rocket launched from Gaza -military

Israel's military said it intercepted a rocket launched from Gaza early on Friday that set off air raid sirens in Israeli communities, around an hour before a seven-day truce between Hamas and Israel was due to expire.

www.reuters.com

Snip
The rocket attacks have also placed civilians in Gaza at risk. The unpredictable nature of the crude rockets has meant that rockets have struck areas not only inside Israel but also inside Gaza; on December 26 a rocket hit a house in Beit Lahiya, killing two Palestinian girls, ages 5 and 12. In addition, Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups have frequently violated the laws of war by firing rockets from within populated areas. In doing so, they failed to take all feasible precautions to avoid placing military targets within densely populated areas, such as by removing civilians under their control from the vicinity of military targets, and protecting civilians from the danger resulting from military operations.

Rockets from Gaza

This 31-page report documents attacks by Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups since November 2008 that killed three Israeli civilians and seriously injured dozens of others, damaged property and forced residents to leave their homes. The rockets unlawfully struck populated areas up to 40...

www.hrw.org

 

[Momoffourboys]

The Security Council has met 10 times to discuss the war in Gaza but still has not condemned Hamas even once!! I told the audience that in order to bring the council out of its indifference to the massacre and to remind it of the price of silence in the face of evil, I wore a yellow patch. A patch with the oath "never again", so that they know that today we have a strong state that will fight until the destruction of the Hamas threat.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1730698486654333349

 

[SouthAussie]

I think trusting the words of a known terrorist is like believing a child with chocolate on his face saying he didn't eat the chocolate.

What happened is terrorists terrorize. He doesn't have to have a reason. If a person believes that removing all Jews from the earth is a justifiable goal, then they do not get a seat at the table for negations.

I don't understand why any suggestion for a way to end this peacefully is instantly dismissed. I think it was you who said why isn't anyone suggesting a way to end this, instead of just "blaming" Israel? So I suggested something that worked somewhere else, involving a terrorist group that "couldn't be trusted". It worked.

imo

 

[Momoffourboys]

US backs Israeli claim that Hamas still has female hostages that it could release​

White House National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby appears to back Israel’s claim that Hamas still has additional women and children hostages who it could release.

Israel says roughly 17 Israeli women and children remain in Gaza and that its truce with Hamas stipulated that the terror group would release all of them before freeing other categories of hostages.

However, Hamas refused to present such a list last night and instead proposed holding talks for the release of other categories of hostages, an Israeli official told Hebrew media, saying that Jerusalem rejected the idea and moved to resume the IDF’s fighting, which began after Hamas again violated the truce by firing a rocket at Israel before it expired this morning.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/us-backs-israeli-claim-that-hamas-still-has-female-hostages-that-it-could-release/

 

[Momoffourboys]

Mansour Abbas calls on armed Palestinian factions to throw down their weapons, work with PA to establish state​

Ra’am chairman Mansour Abbas becomes the first Arab party leader in Israel’s history to publicly call on the armed Palestinian factions to demilitarize and work with the Palestinian Authority in order to establish a Palestinian state through non-violent means.

“In order to move forward, the Palestinian militant groups need to throw down their arms. They need to work hand in hand with the Palestinian Authority in order to realize a national movement that will aspire for a state of Palestine in a peaceful solution alongside the state of Israel,” Abbas tells CNN in a rare interview with international media.

Abbas, whose Islamist Ra’am party was the first independent Arab-majority faction to join an Israeli coalition, begins the interview by reiterating his condemnation of the October 7 massacres.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/mansour-abbas-calls-on-armed-palestinian-factions-to-throw-down-their-weapons-work-with-pa-to-establish-state/

 

[Arkay]

What a pity they were not so busy before the attack

JMO

In broad terms, it’s my opinion that this can apply to any country that is ever attacked. Even Poland being invaded by the Nazis.

Certainly the particulars are very different. However, in a very general sense, if every country were always properly prepared for an invasion, theoretically there may not be any wars at all.

<modsnip: off topic>

 

[fred&edna]

If an unconditional surrender did happen now and the bombing stopped now, what happens next?

Is there a plan what will happen in Gaza and to Palestinians? And who will rebuilt Gaza? Will all the displaced people carry on living in tents and ruins until Gaza is rebuilt?

If Palestinian terrorists aren't allowed to be part of any rebuilding then (and only then) "maybe" there's hope.

ETA: And, maybe all the pro-P protesters could volunteer... assuming they actually denounce terrorism and work for peace. 'Just a thought.

jmo

 

[fred&edna]

Because the "pro-P protesters" are the ones decimating Palestine?

Because they want Palestinians to be free and I would think they'd gladly help work for a better Palestine. Help rebuild it... not destroy it like Hamas has done. They could help those who WANT to live in peace with Israel. They could rebuild good schools that do NOT teach killing of Jews.

jmo

 

[shotgun09]

If Palestinian terrorists aren't allowed to be part of any rebuilding then (and only then) "maybe" there's hope.

ETA: And, maybe all the pro-P protesters could volunteer... assuming they actually denounce terrorism and work for peace. 'Just a thought.

jmo

If only those who continue supporting terrorists would allow themselves to actually " SEE behind the curtain", or who is controlling who. It is mind boggling to me. The curtain was WIDE OPEN on 10/7/2023.

MOO and Peace

 

[Sillybilly]

Bumping for a final time from this thread and previous threads.

Hey everyone,

This post lands at random.

Discussion of the last zillion +/- years of Middle Eastern affairs, religion, etc is derailing this discussion and takes on a life of its own. Please stay on track with the discussion centering on the October 7th attack and more directly related, current issues and events going forward (the hostages, the current war, the current attempts to resolve, etc).

Thank you.

WS does not have the staff to devote to all these issues. Members who persist in bringing in years of historical information will be banned from this discussion. No more nice warnings.

 

[JennieM]

18m ago
Dan Sabbagh

Israeli defence sources say they expect a southern campaign to take longer than the north, running into January or longer, although timescales in war can be hard to predict.

But while it may proceed gradually, and avoid a certain number of civilian casualties if the evacuations go ahead as planned, it will inevitably leave more and more people pushed south around Rafah.

“Where can people move to?” asked Jason Lee, Palestine country director for Save the Children.

Will they end up pushed next to the Mediterranean, and in the sea?

It raises the grim prospect of fighting running through December, perhaps punctuated by pauses to allow more hostage releases, and risks increasing tensions between Israel and the international community, in particular with the US.

Antony Blinken, the US secretary of state, said on Thursday that Israel must “minimise further casualties of innocent Palestinians” in future military operations and “avoid further significant displacement of civilians inside of Gaza”.

But it is hard to see how both goals can be achieved, even on Israel’s revised area-by-area strategy, given Israel’s overarching objective to eliminate Hamas as a military and political force in the Gaza Strip.

And for all the emphasis on civilian evacuations, Israel said it struck 200 targets on Friday, including in Khan Younis and Rafah. In practice, its new military strategy does not yet look much different.

Israel-Hamas war live: 178 Palestinians killed since truce ended on Friday morning, says Gaza health ministry

Ministry says most people killed are women and children; US blames Hamas for end of truce, saying it failed to provide list of more hostages to be freed

www.theguardian.com

 

[Friday Fan]

LIVE UPDATEFROM THE LIVEBLOG OF FRIDAY, DECEMBER 1, 2023

‘Gaza must remain Palestinian land’: US says it opposes reduction of Strip’s territory after PM asserts it’ll happen​

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/gaza-must-remain-palestinian-land-us-says-it-opposes-reduction-of-strips-territory-after-pm-asserts-itll-happen/

​

After just dozens of aid trucks enter Gaza today, US urges Israel to allow delivery to reach truce-time levels

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

Israel opts not to extend UN envoy’s visa

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[fred&edna]

As long as any Palestinians follow these Hamas teachings... how can any Israeli (or anyone else peace-loving in the world) begin to trust Palestinians??

.

 

[Friday Fan]

Well, they couldn't get prisoners from Israel, so they got them from Libya. They look like nice ..

Libya releases four Hamas members it had jailed at US’ request​

Libya releases four Hamas members it had jailed at US’ request

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

Libya has reportedly released four Hamas members in an apparent gesture of solidarity with the terror group amid the war in Gaza.

The four men — Marwan al-Ashqar, his son Baraa, Mouayad Abed and Nasib Choubeir — were detained by Libyan police in 2016 at the request of the United States.

They were convicted of trafficking weapons and sentenced in 2019 to jail terms ranging from 17 to 22 years.


But following the outbreak of the war, Hamas began calling on Libya to release its members.

Libya — which just months ago was in talks to normalize ties with Israel — heeded the call and freed the four members.

The four were photographed on a private jet to Istanbul earlier today. From there, they were expected to fly to Qatar, which continues to host Hamas’s leadership while brokering talks between the terror group and Israel.