Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #14

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  • #661
Because they want Palestinians to be free and I would think they'd gladly help work for a better Palestine. Help rebuild it... not destroy it like Hamas has done. They could help those who WANT to live in peace with Israel. They could rebuild good schools that do NOT teach killing of Jews.

jmo

True. There is a lot of indoctrination to be undone. A lot of normalcy (to us) to be introduced.

I wondered - a couple of weeks ago - if the undoing of the indoctrination could start with the terrorists who are sitting in Israeli jails for long periods of time. Especially the really young ones.

Kinda like "drivers ed" but instead "how to be kind and loving to others ed". Deprogramming. Another pipe dream of mine ....

imo
 
  • #662
Reduction of this scrap of land??? o_O
Geez!
Curiouser and curiouser :rolleyes:
 
  • #663
1m ago

Doctors Without Borders says all elements of convoy attack in Gaza 'point to Israeli army responsibility'​

Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) have said that “all elements” of an attack on one of its convoys while evacuating from Gaza City earlier this month “point to the Israeli military as responsible.”

Two people were killed when an MSF evacuation convoy came under fire in Gaza City on 18 November, in what the organisation said immediately appeared to be a deliberate attack.

In an earlier statement, MSF said the convoy of five cars, all clearly marked with MSF identification and composing of 137 people, including 65 children, was trying to evacuate its Palestinian staff members and their families to southern Gaza. It said that the evacuation convoy was not allowed to cross a checkpoint near Wadi Gaza, and that it was attacked as it returned to the MSF premises.

The organisation released a new statement on Friday saying that “two weeks later, after collecting the testimonies of MSF staff who were present in the convoy that day, all elements point to the responsibility of the Israeli army for this attack.”

It said it has requested a formal explanation from Israeli authorities and called for an independent investigation into the incident.

 
  • #664

I dare say Khan Younis is being pounded because it is known to be Sinwar's neighborhood. He has made it painfully clear what  his intentions are. I truly,  truly feel for the civilians caught in the 'crosshairs'. I really do. Again, they need to smoke out the rat. jmo
 
  • #665
I think the Vatican is proceeding very carefully. IMO.
I agree. Our Pope has no problem speaking his mind.
 
  • #666
True. There is a lot of indoctrination to be undone. A lot of normalcy (to us) to be introduced.

I wondered - a couple of weeks ago - if the undoing of the indoctrination could start with the terrorists who are sitting in Israeli jails for long periods of time. Especially the really young ones.

Kinda like "drivers ed" but instead "how to be kind and loving to others ed". Deprogramming. Another pipe dream of mine ....

I am not a warmonger. I'm just a realist. I do not believe Israel can do no wrong. But, I believe peace has to start somewhere "concrete", and as long as terrorism is alive and well... peace is (sadly) only a dream.

jmo
 
  • #667
I am not a warmonger. I'm just a realist. I do not believe Israel can do no wrong. But, I believe peace has to start somewhere "concrete", and as long as terrorism is alive and well... peace is (sadly) only a dream.

jmo
Well said.
 
  • #668
I dare say Khan Younis is being pounded because it is known to be Sinwar's neighborhood. He has made it painfully clear what  his intentions are. I truly,  truly feel for the civilians caught in the 'crosshairs'. I really do. Again, they need to smoke out the rat. jmo
I think its important to remember that 100+ hostages just returned from captivity. Add to that thousands of interrogation hours of captured terrorists. That is a ton of intel. It is not magic that Israel released the names of 5 hostages that were killed. Hamas didn’t supply that info. Intel did.
 
  • #669
As long as any Palestinians follow these Hamas teachings... how can any Israeli (or anyone else peace-loving in the world) begin to trust Palestinians??

.

There have always been agitators stirring up hatred; far too many to enumerate.
Among ways to deal with them does not involve the razing of cities and towns with the bodies of the people who lived there lying crushed under the rubble of their homes and public buildings. Quite unprecedented.

I simply cannot quite grasp the concept that American advice is being ignored; that really does worry me.
 
  • #670
50 min ago

Palestinian journalist killed by Israeli airstrikes in Gaza, says Turkish news agency​

From CNN's Kareem Khadder in Jerusalem and Ruba Alhenawi in Atlanta


Montaser Al-Sawaf was a freelance cameraman based in the Gaza strip.
Montaser Al-Sawaf was a freelance cameraman based in the Gaza strip. Enes Cenli/Anadolu News Agency

A freelance journalist working for Turkish news agency Anadolu was killed in Gaza on Friday, as Israeli airstrikes resumed after a one-week pause, the Anadolu News Agency told CNN.

Montaser Al-Sawaf was a freelance cameraman based in the Gaza Strip and had recently recovered from injuries sustained from another Israeli airstrike in November before the start of the temporary truce between Israel and Hamas.
Enes Canli, Anadolu's bureau chief in Jerusalem, told CNN that Al-Sawaf had lost both his parents and other family members in a previous airstrike.

“He’d lost his father and brothers in a recent attack. He got injured very badly with bruises on his face, one eye closed. We got scared he was going to lose his eye. But he recovered quickly. He wanted to stay in Gaza City and was traveling north during the Israeli army’s invasion,” Canli said.

The journalist sustained more serious injuries Friday and had to wait for an ambulance for about half an hour before he was transported to the Al-Ahli Baptist hospital, where he later died, the bureau chief said.

Canli remembered Al-Sawaf as a quiet and brave man, calling him "a really gentle soul. He was a calm person and hardworking, always over-delivering and over-delivering, even if you don't ask him."

He leaves behind two young children, he added.

"I spoke to him two or three days ago and he was the one motivating me, I was upset with everything, and he was the one trying to motivate me."

According to Canli, Al-Sawaf wanted to stay in the city center, considering it a "personal case" to tell the world about the conditions in Gaza and "not just journalism."

In one of his most recent posts on Instagram, Al-Sawaf posted a picture of his bloodied and injured face, with one eye completely shut.

"Our house was hit by an airstrike, more than 45 people died including my mother, my father, my two brothers and all their children," he wrote. "I was injured in the face, there are no doctors to treat me since I am in Gaza and there are no [functioning] hospitals or doctors. We will continue our coverage despite everything."



 
  • #671

United Auto Workers call for cease-fire in Gaza​

The United Auto Workers labor union announced their support for a permanent cease-fire at a news conference outside the White House on Friday.

“I’m proud today to announce that the UAW international has joined the call for a cease-fire in Israel and Palestine initiated by UE and UFCW Local 3000,” said Brandon Mancilla, United Auto Workers (UAW) Region 9A director, in a statement to the press. “From opposing fascism in WWII to mobilizing against apartheid South Africa and the CONTRA war, the UAW has consistently stood for justice across the globe.

Woman who set herself on fire by Israeli Consulate in critical condition, Atlanta officials say​

Why did the pause fail? Here’s what we know.​


They wanted to to release elderly prisoners? What is their idea of elderly? Sinwar, who is 60?

Hamas in turn blamed Israel, which it said in a Telegram post was responsible for “persistently rejecting offers throughout the night for the release of detainees.” Hamas had proposed an exchange of prisoners and hostages involving elderly people, as well as the return of the bodies of Israeli hostages, it said.

 
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  • #672

Sixth Israeli hostage death confirmed on Friday​


1701471333901.jpeg

Hostages And Missing Families ForumCopyright: Hostages And Missing Families Forum
Ofra Keidar

The death in Gaza of Ofra Keidar has been confirmed by her kibbutz and the Hostages and Missing Persons Families Forum. Hers was the sixth hostage death announced by the Israelis on Friday.

Keidar, 70, is said to have been on a walk on 7 October when she was abducted. She managed to call her family, telling them Hamas was shooting at her.

Her husband Sami was killed in their family home in Kibbutz Be'eri, and her daughter Yael survived after barricading herself in a shelter.

We earlier reported on the other five hostages whose deaths were confirmed today:
  • Arye Zalmanovich, 85
  • Eliyahu Margalit,75
  • Guy Iluz, 26
  • Maya Goren, 56
  • Ronen Engel, 55

 
  • #673
There have always been agitators stirring up hatred; far too many to enumerate.
Among ways to deal with them does not involve the razing of cities and towns with the bodies of the people who lived there lying crushed under the rubble of their homes and public buildings. Quite unprecedented.

I simply cannot quite grasp the concept that American advice is being ignored; that really does worry me.

Agitators?! Hamas terrorists have driven the Palestinians of Gaza into death and destruction. They continue to scream for more blood. They've taught their children under the direction of UNRWA to kill Jews. It's more worrying to me that any Palestinian (or anyone who wants Palestinians to be "free") hasn't done anything to root out terrorism for years upon years during Hamas rule... and, only now come out in droves to be heard because Israel is fighting back against terrorism.

It's truly bewildering to me.

jmo
 
  • #674
  • #675
50 min ago

Palestinian journalist killed by Israeli airstrikes in Gaza, says Turkish news agency​

From CNN's Kareem Khadder in Jerusalem and Ruba Alhenawi in Atlanta


Montaser Al-Sawaf was a freelance cameraman based in the Gaza strip.
Montaser Al-Sawaf was a freelance cameraman based in the Gaza strip. Enes Cenli/Anadolu News Agency

A freelance journalist working for Turkish news agency Anadolu was killed in Gaza on Friday, as Israeli airstrikes resumed after a one-week pause, the Anadolu News Agency told CNN.

Montaser Al-Sawaf was a freelance cameraman based in the Gaza Strip and had recently recovered from injuries sustained from another Israeli airstrike in November before the start of the temporary truce between Israel and Hamas.
Enes Canli, Anadolu's bureau chief in Jerusalem, told CNN that Al-Sawaf had lost both his parents and other family members in a previous airstrike.



The journalist sustained more serious injuries Friday and had to wait for an ambulance for about half an hour before he was transported to the Al-Ahli Baptist hospital, where he later died, the bureau chief said.

Canli remembered Al-Sawaf as a quiet and brave man, calling him "a really gentle soul. He was a calm person and hardworking, always over-delivering and over-delivering, even if you don't ask him."

He leaves behind two young children, he added.



According to Canli, Al-Sawaf wanted to stay in the city center, considering it a "personal case" to tell the world about the conditions in Gaza and "not just journalism."

In one of his most recent posts on Instagram, Al-Sawaf posted a picture of his bloodied and injured face, with one eye completely shut.






According to the Committee to Protect Journalists, as of December 1st:
  • 61 journalists and media workers were confirmed dead: 54 Palestinian, 4 Israeli, and 3 Lebanese.
  • 11 journalists were reported injured.
  • 3 journalists were reported missing.
  • 19 journalists were reported arrested.
CPJ is also investigating numerous unconfirmed reports of other journalists being killed, missing, detained, hurt, or threatened, and of damage to media offices and journalists’ homes.

 
  • #676
Hamas calls for the mass murder of Jews
Hamas senior leader: "We must attack every Jew on the face of the earth"

There have always been agitators stirring up hatred; far too many to enumerate.

They are not agitators, they have a charter created years ago, they are the "elected" party, they teach it to the children, they control everything in Gaza.
 
  • #677
I think its important to remember that 100+ hostages just returned from captivity. Add to that thousands of interrogation hours of captured terrorists. That is a ton of intel. It is not magic that Israel released the names of 5 hostages that were killed. Hamas didn’t supply that info. Intel did.
Excellent point. In focusing on the media coverage of the fighting, it's easy to forget the tremendous amount of "information gathering" that takes place behind the scenes-- things we the public are not privy to.
 
  • #678
(This is a leader who actually cares. Mansour Abbas on the conflict and looking ahead, not back)

For the first time in the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the head of an Arab party in Israel calls on all Palestinian factions to lay down their weapons and unite for an unarmed political struggle
 
  • #679
Agitators?! Hamas terrorists have driven the Palestinians of Gaza into death and destruction. They continue to scream for more blood. They've taught their children under the direction of UNRWA to kill Jews. It's more worrying to me that any Palestinian (or anyone who wants Palestinians to be "free") hasn't done anything to root out terrorism for years upon years during Hamas rule... and, only now come out in droves to be heard because Israel is fighting back against terrorism.

It's truly bewildering to me.

jmo

With respect, I think you are victim blaming and you are referring to the Palestinian people as though their lives don't matter.

The Israeli leadership is responsible for directing the destruction of homes and people en masse.

The people are not dispersed as they normally would have been in their own homes in different towns. Instead they have have had to follow instructions enforced by an army of occupation move to a safe zone to avoid being killed.
Forcing generations of the same families under the one roof where they all have been killed like lambs to the slaughter.

There is nothing bewildering about terrorism - it is a fact of life from one end of the world to the next and they have no respect for human life.

It must be terrifying to close your eyes at night in the expectation that you and all who are dear to you may be lying under tons of rubble, blasted to smithereens come morning.
 
  • #680

Egyptian author, a liberal activist, forced to flee for backing Israel over Hamas​

Dalia Ziada goes into hiding amid furious backlash in her country for condemning terror group’s brutal attack on Israel, saying she hopes IDF eliminates it for everyone’s sake​

By STUART WINER 23 Nov 2023, 4:41 pm 13
Screen capture from video of Egyptian author and liberal democracy campaigner Dalia Ziada during an interview with the Kan public broadcaster, November 22, 2023.
An acclaimed Egyptian author and liberal democracy activist has been forced to flee her home country amid a furious backlash after she praised Israel’s military campaign against Hamas, saying it will benefit the entire region if the terror group is eliminated.

Dalia Ziada has received death threats, while complaints have been filed with Egyptian prosecutors demanding she be put on trial as a spy for Israel and for inciting war crimes.
The uproar began when Ziada spoke with the Institute for National Security Studies, an Israeli think tank, three weeks ago. Ziada panned Hamas for its October 7 massive attack on Israel that killed over 1,200 people, mostly civilians. At least 240 people, including children and the elderly, were abducted as hostages to the Gaza Strip.

Ziada justified Israel’s military response, which is aimed at removing Hamas from power in Gaza and securing the release of the hostages, saying she hopes it succeeds.

She doubled down on her remarks in an interview with the Kan public broadcaster aired Wednesday.

The network did not reveal Ziada’s location due to the threats against her. Kan shared the Arabic-language interview, with English subtitles, on social media.

Asked how she is, Ziada responded, “Praise God, she is still alive.”
She said that she didn’t regret what she said to the INSS. “On the contrary, if I am asked, I will say it again,” Ziada said.
“I fully support what Israel is doing to eliminate Hamas,” she said, but stressed her intention was not to incite against the Palestinians.
“On the contrary, every drop of blood that is shed, whether Palestinian or Israeli, I am completely against it. These are citizens who are not to blame for what is happening.”
“But I totally support Israel’s war against Hamas. I support it 100 percent, and urge everyone to support it.”


She speculated on what the Middle East would look like without Iran-backed Hamas or other extremist Islamist organizations.
The situation, she said, would “without a doubt be a thousand times better.”
“I hope Israel succeeds in eliminating Hamas, I fully support that,” she repeated. “I hope the Israeli army will succeed in eliminating Hamas as soon as possible, thus freeing the entire area from the evil of Hamas.”

“I will not stop condemning Hamas and the radical Islamist organizations and fight them and those who stand behind them,” she said. “Even if they are powerful countries, I will continue to fight them because that’s what I believe.”
Addressing Israelis, Ziada said, “First of all, I share your grief about what happened in the October 7 massacre.”

She spoke of videos she saw of the attack, saying, “I can’t describe the horror I saw.” Struggling to find words, she eventually added, “It was something you can’t even imagine.”
Asked if she would return to Egypt, Ziada said she hoped to but, given the death threats and the lawsuits being filed against her, “in the current situation I think that it would be a crazy thing to do. It would be like throwing myself into the fire.”

Ziada vowed to continue to work for peace between Egypt and Israel “and between all Arabs and Israel,” citing the interview with Kan as an example of her determination to speak up.

She praised Israel’s 1979 peace treaty with Egypt and the security cooperation between the neighbors.

“If it weren’t for the security collaboration of Israel with us, with Egypt… the terror organizations would still be in Sinai today,” she said, of a period of unrest in the Sinai Peninsula that was marked by deadly terror attacks on Egyptian security forces.

The terror groups behind those attacks, she noted, “were established by Hamas in Sinai.”
In her interview with the INSS, Ziada said it was a mistake to think that Hamas is fighting for the Palestinian cause and that if it cared about the Palestinians it would not have launched the October 7 massacres.

 
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