Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #14

[SouthAussie]

So do we think Hamas is systematically killing the captive relatives of hostages who've been released in retaliation?

I am guessing that some have been killed for resisting/not complying with/arguing with a mentally disturbed Hamas sub-leader. And a family member saw/heard what happened.

I am remembering a post way back in the threads that spoke of how hopped-up on drugs the terrorists were when they committed the Oct 7th massacre.

imo

 

[Brightchaser47]

I am guessing that some have been killed for resisting/not complying with/arguing with a mentally disturbed Hamas sub-leader. And a family member saw/heard what happened.

imo

Very possible...

 

[justtrish]

Sources have reportedly told Haaretz that almost every Arab Leader during “Behind-the-Scenes Talks” with Israeli Officials including several Gulf States have told them not to End the War with Hamas until the Terrorist Organization is Totally Destroyed with many seeing Hamas as a Domestic Enemy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1730776481645637949

Imagine if all those Arab leaders talking "behind the scenes" joined in publicly to help Israel get rid of HAMAS. Imagine how the world would view this if other Arab countries were standing with Israel because Israel is right to take out HAMAS.

They don't want to deal with HAMAS, they want Israel to do it.. then Israel is the bad guy and they all benefit from HAMAS being taken out, but don't have the backlash like Israel does right now.

Glad they are showing support in private, but they need to do this publicly. Every country that does not support terrorism needs to stand united in this.

 

[Brightchaser47]

It occurs to me that even if the terrorists were all brought to trial, there's not a big enough prison to hold them all (unless we skip prison and go straight to Capital Punishment). jmo

 

[Arkay]

There is a lot of presumption there ... that Sinwar does not want a peaceful existence, eventually. That Sinwar can be happy with the restrictions thrust upon the Palestinians. For example.

None of us knows, and none of us can see because the situation is so volatile now. On both sides.

Israel's apparent solution is to assassinate Sinwar. Eradicate the people.

How about try talking with each other? What harm can that do? Maybe if they see each other as humans, and not as "animals" and "imprisoners" they can work out a way to fairly share the land without killing each other.

imo

I understand this is your opinion.
In my opinion, while the sentiment seems laudable, it is highly unrealistic.

It can’t be a mere “presumption” that Sinwar does not want a peaceful existence. We know this because he has TOLD us and told the world. He won’t rest until there is no Israel and all Jews are extinct.

Is he hoping to achieve this demonic goal through peaceful means? What peaceful way is there to exterminate a religion and a nation?

He is also the acknowledged architect of the October 7th terror attacks. People who want peace do not spend two years planning how to kill babies who weren’t yet born while he was engineering this attack.

People who want peace don’t design a terror attack with instructions for his followers to rape, kidnap, torture and murder infants, girls, elderly, disabled CIVILIANS. In grotesque ways that outdo medieval torture instruments. With family members forced to watch each other as they slowly burn to death, with parents watching their daughters be raped.

This is not a kindergarten class in which one child stole the other’s crayon, and the teacher sits them down to have a good talk about sharing.

I’m way behind and catching up on the thread, but I got as far as @katydid23 reply to you and she said some things that I’d intended to say here, but am grateful she did.

She is 100% correct…for the last two years, Netanyahu THOUGHT peaceful talks had taken place and Hamas was only interested in improving its economy.

He was terribly wrong, but it’s proof that Israel was willing to work with Gaza under what Israel BELIEVED to have been peaceful conditions.

So, IMO but based on what Sinwar has openly and repeatedly declared, he does not seek peace. He’s not looking for a resolution that a little conversation will affect.

He wanted war. So war he shall have.

And I hope Israel kills him dead, he and all his terrorist brethren.

Maybe then a new generation can grow up in Gaza without being taught from toddlerhood to murder and to “martyr” themselves.

 

[Wishbone]

I really don’t think so Brightchaser If they are buried under rubble and missing for a while, I don‘t think they are just injured.

truth

 

[margarita25]

Israeli Military Brings Body of Hostage Ofir Tzarfati Back From Gaza

The body of Israeli hostage Ofir Tzarfati was recovered from the Gaza Strip by the Israeli military and Shin Bet, Israel’s internal security service, and brought back to Israel for burial, the military said in a statement on Friday. Tzarfati, 27 years old, was kidnapped from a music festival in sou

www.wsj.com

 

[Momoffourboys]

Imagine if all those Arab leaders talking "behind the scenes" joined in publicly to help Israel get rid of HAMAS. Imagine how the world would view this if other Arab countries were standing with Israel because Israel is right to take out HAMAS.

They don't want to deal with HAMAS, they want Israel to do it.. then Israel is the bad guy and they all benefit from HAMAS being taken out, but don't have the backlash like Israel does right now.

Glad they are showing support in private, but they need to do this publicly. Every country that does not support terrorism needs to stand united in this.

They can’t show support publicly. They have to stand by the Palestinians. It’s bad enough they won’t allow them entry. But, let Israel take one for the team. IMO in the name of peace, they would And are.

 

[JennieM]

Thousands of bodies lie buried in rubble in Gaza. Families dig to retrieve them, often by hand​

[…]

Omar al-Darawi and his neighbors have spent weeks searching the ruins of a pair of four-story houses in central Gaza. Forty-five people lived in the homes; 32 were killed. In the first days after the attack, 27 bodies were recovered.

The five still missing were al-Darawi’s cousins.

They include Amani, a 37-year-old stay-at-home mom whose husband and four children also died. There’s Aliaa, 28, who was taking care of her aging parents. There’s another Amani, who died with her 14-year-old daughter. Her husband and their five sons survived.

“The situation has become worse every day,” said the 23-year-old, who was once a college journalism student. The smell has become unbearable.

“We can’t stop,” he said. “We just want to find and bury them” before their bodies are lost in the rubble forever.

[…]

Al-Moghari then went back into the wreckage in search of his father and other relatives.

“I am stunned,” he said. “What we lived through is indescribable.”

Gaza has become a place where many families are denied even the comfort of a funeral.

Al-Darawi, the man searching for his cousins, understands that.

“Those who found their dead are lucky,” he said.

Thousands of bodies lie buried in rubble in Gaza. Families dig to retrieve them, often by hand

Rescuers in Gaza don’t have the equipment to search properly for the living, let alone the dead.

apnews.com

 

[justtrish]

It occurs to me that even if the terrorists were all brought to trial, there's not a big enough prison to hold them all (unless we skip prison and go straight to Capital Punishment). jmo

I am not sure Israel is looking to take many alive. Unless they surrender, which I'm sure Israel would allow.. if they are fighting, then I'd say they kill or be killed.

I am curious if they could be tried in an international court. They have killed citizens from many countries.

 

[JennieM]

1m ago
The head of the UN children’s agency has warned of a “humanitarian catastrophe” if Israeli bombings in Gaza return to the intensity of before the Israel-Hamas truce.

Catherine Russell also urged “all parties to ensure that children are protected and assisted” and called for a “lasting humanitarian ceasefire”.

The executive director of Unicef said in a statement that the Gaza Strip “is once again the most dangerous place in the world to be a child” and that “more children will surely die” as a result of the resumption in fighting.

Russell’s comments on Friday came after the seven-day ceasefire between Israel and Hamas expired and Israel resumed military operations in the territory.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1730737992011022770

Russell said:

Before the pause, more than 5,300 Palestinian children were reportedly killed in 48 days of relentless bombing – a figure that does not include many children still missing and presumed to be buried under rubble.

Should violence return to this scale and intensity, we can assume that hundreds more children will be killed and injured every day. And if we are not able to get water, food, medical supplies, blankets and warm clothes to those in need, we will face a humanitarian catastrophe.

Israeli airstrikes hit near Damascus, says Syria – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[justtrish]

They can’t show support publicly. They have to stand by the Palestinians. It’s bad enough they won’t allow them entry. But, let Israel take one for the team. IMO in the name of peace, they would And are.

When nothing changes, then nothing changes.

The time to stand up WITH Palestinians against terrorism is NOW. That could have a real chance to bring peace.

They can show support publicly if they wanted to. This isn't standing up with Israel against Palestinians.. it's standing with them against terrorism. If they would just dare to take a stand for once to end things.

THAT could bring peace. Someone has to be the first to do it. If they all truly want peace and to exist without terrorism, they have to join untied with Israel, with other allies.. the US, Canada, UK, and other allies to demand that terrorism is not a way of life that is accepted. It isn't tolerated or allowed to exist while they look the other way either. It needs to be a clear message that NO MORE.

Edited to add: I understand what you meant.. they can't. Not "accepted" to go against other Arabs. Do the not realize that by not standing up against HAMAS, they are allowing Palestinians to continue to be pushed down by HAMAS. They did not and do not care about the people. Maybe Palestinians in Gaza just need one other Arab country to take a stand with them. Maybe that would help them have a voice to speak up.

 

[Friday Fan]

Re the three released prisoners.

Yes they don't look malnourished.
I would think that is a good thing. A credit to the prison on the way they treat prisoners.

Locking people up is the punishment.

Depriving "any" prisoners of food to the point they became malnourished would be inhumane and uncivilised.

The ones in the plane?
They're real bad guys.
They're so bad the United States had them locked up in Libya.
The only reason they weren't in Gitmo (The US "offshore prison in Cuba" for terrorists, was because Gitmo is very controversial and Supreme Court ruled against most of the detentions)
I'm sure they were involved in some terrorist activity against the United States.
They were smuggling anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles into Gaza.

MOO Those prisoners probably had their own Mafia going in the Libyian prison. They probably had whatever they wanted smuggled in. MOO

 

[fred&edna]

No, from Israeli occupation.

And, they're still not bright enough to actually SEE the TRUTH.

NOT once have the Palestinian leaders in Gaza denounced terrorism and actually attempted peace. Even ol' prize-winning Arafat wouldn't denounce terrorism. They just lie and steal from their own people... AND have brought death and destruction upon them.

jmo

 

[Brightchaser47]

The ones in the plane?
They're real bad guys.
They're so bad the United States had them locked up in Libya.
The only reason they weren't in Gitmo (The US "offshore prison in Cuba" for terrorists, was because Gitmo is very controversial and Supreme Court ruled against most of the detentions)
I'm sure they were involved in some terrorist activity against the United States.
MOO Those prisoners probably had their own Mafia going in the Libyian prison. They probably had whatever they wanted smuggled in. MOO

TBH, they look more like they  ran the prison, imo. Mafia is right!

 

[Arkay]

Weren't they hostage talks? Not long term solution talks? If I am mistaken, maybe could you point me in the direction of where to read about it? (I just tried googling.)

There is little point in taking little bites of the apple. What the leaders need to do is talk about long term solutions.

Five years ago Sinwar was saying this ... “A new war with Israel is in neither party’s ‎‎interest. Certainly not ours” ... "Who would want to pit ‎four slingshots against a nuclear power? War will ‎achieve nothing.” ‎.... ‎‎”calm in exchange for calm and an end to the siege. ‎The siege is not calm.”‎ Link

So what happened? Encroaching settlements on Palestinian land? Something else?

imo

What happened is he was lying.

The Muslim doctrine of Taqiyya that it’s ok to be deceitful if it furthers Islam.

It has nothing to do with the hostage talks. By that time obviously the attacks had already taken place.

Sinwar’s version of what you deem a “long term solution” is aligned with Hitler’s “Final Solution.” His name for the plan to kill every Jewish person.

IMO and facts

Taqiyya - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[margarita25]

Do many of these have a family member that was recently released?

Here’s the updated list of the recently announced dead hostages if you want to crosscheck, M4. I’m not sure if I got all of them, but it’s a start.

Starting on a list of the dead hostages announced today (and this week), I might not have all names but here are some:


“Another four hostages taken by Hamas during the terror organization's rampage in southern Israel on October 7 were announced as being dead, Israeli security forces and media stated on Friday.” / source: JPost


1. Ofir Tzarfati, 27, soldier abducted from vicinity of Re'im base on October 7

2. Guy Ilouz, 26 - abducted from music festival, “killed in captivity”

3. Eliyahu Margalit, 75, “kidnapped by Hamas” and “murdered in Gaza”

4. Ofra Kidar, 70, Kibbutz Be'eri, “murdered in Gaza while held hostage by Hamas. Her body is currently being held by Hamas.”

Other “hostages whose deaths were confirmed today” / BBC

5. Arye Zalmanovich, 85

6. Eliyahu Margalit, 75

7. Maya Goren, 56


Announced Tuesday:

8. “Israel Defense Forces confirmed on Tuesday the death of hostage Ravid Katz, who was taken captive from Israel during the Hamas attack on October 7.” Source

 

[justtrish]

What happened is he was lying.

The Muslim doctrine of Taqiyya that it’s ok to be deceitful if it furthers Islam.

It has nothing to do with the hostage talks. By that time obviously the attacks had already taken place.

Sinwar’s version of what you deem a “long term solution” is aligned with Hitler’s “Final Solution.” His name for the plan to kill every Jewish person.

IMO and facts

Taqiyya - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I wish people could read what you wrote and let it sink in. Truly think on it.

One leader has his mind made up that his calling in life is to kill all Jews. It is terrifying and that "leader" lives next door to millions of Jews AND he ordered the events of Oct 7th. Then said that was a dress rehearsal.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I wish people could read what you wrote and let it sink in. Truly think on it.

One leader has his mind made up that his calling in life is to kill all Jews. It is terrifying and that "leader" lives next door to millions of Jews AND he ordered the events of Oct 7th. Then said that was a dress rehearsal.

I wish we could laugh that off, and dismiss Sinwar as simply a "wack job".  But, millions of people actually buy into what he sells, and that makes him highly dangerous.

 

[fred&edna]

I wish we could laugh that off, and dismiss Sinwar as simply a "wack job".  But, millions of people actually buy into what he sells, and that makes him highly dangerous.

And, growing by the minute.