Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #5

[Simply Southern]

This was published when first announcing aid would be allowed.

Could this be why only 20 trucks are being allowed in?

War cabinet bars humanitarian aid from entering Gaza from Israel until Hamas releases hostages

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office announces that in light of the “overwhelming and vital” support from the United States and in light of US President Joe Biden’s demand for basic humanitarian aid to be able to reach Gaza, Israel’s war cabinet has decided the following:

1. Israel will not allow any humanitarian aid to be delivered from its territory to the Gaza Strip until the hostages being held by terror groups are returned.

2. Israel demands that the International Red Cross be able to visit the hostages and will work to mobilize international support for this demand.

3. Israel will not thwart humanitarian supplies from reaching Gaza from Egypt as long as it is only food, water and medicine for the civilian population located in the southern Gaza Strip. Any supplies that reach Hamas will be blocked by Israel.

 

[Charlot123]

Worth reading.

Explained: Hamas funding-How the Gaza-based terror group raises money? - CNBC TV18

As the Israel-Hamas war rages on, let’s try to understand where Hamas gets its funding from.

www.cnbctv18.com

Question: what do Hamas sponsors get back? Except for certain clout, of course, and creating political instability, but that won’t be enough…usually nothing is “just charity” in politics, more quid pro quo. So what does Quatar get in return? Unless the “private sponsors” are somewhat grandiose future Osamas, of course… but if not, there should be some payback. Or, the decision to support is made by the Quatar government, but then, most is stuck to the hands of own bureaucracy+Hamas?

 

[Elley Mae]

Evidence shows Hamas militants likely used some North Korean weapons in attack on Israel

Evidence shows Hamas militants likely used some North Korean weapons in attack on Israel

Hamas fighters likely fired North Korean weapons during their Oct. 7 assault on Israel, a militant video and weapons seized by Israel show, despite Pyongyang’s denials that it arms the militant group.

apnews.com

 

[Charlot123]

British Ambassador to the US
how helpful is the language ( It hadn't occurred to me wrt deconflicting)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1714901720776536165

Well, IMHO, to a degree, he is right. If one just wipes off Hamas, some other Hamas will immediately move in.

The problem the way I see it, Palestine autonomy is the same as any poor land. Whoever has the guts, obtains education, probably in Israeli universities, and either emigrates or stays in Israel with the plans to emigrate. For the sake of their own children. This leaves the least educated, and probably, younger population in Gaza. Young, hopeless and angry. Everyone thought Arafat was a problem, but he seems have been an angel compared to Hamas leaders. You wipe them off, they’d borrow someone from Hezbollah or self-produce even more radical element. You just can’t bring people better government. It has to come from inside.

Now, of course, if one could try to donate to Palestinians bypassing Hamas…

 

[Seattle1]

Question: what do Hamas sponsors get back? Except for certain clout, of course, and creating political instability, but that won’t be enough…usually nothing is “just charity” in politics, more quid pro quo. So what does Quatar get in return?

I'm dying how the $6B to Iran (funds previously held in South Korea) can't be described as money available for humanitarian purchases-- until the parties figure out a new name for earnings via prisoner swaps and sanctions.

The Iran Hostage Deal: Clarifying the $6 Billion Transfer

The deal gives Tehran access to frozen funds for humanitarian purposes, likely paving the way for resumed nuclear talks this fall as both sides try to lower tensions.

www.washingtoninstitute.org

Sept 18, 2023

Under the Trump administration, Seoul and Washington tried to implement a won-denominated payment channel for humanitarian trade, but it never materialized. The funds became a millstone around South Korea’s neck, and it faced intensifying pressure from Iran, which seized a South Korean tanker in 2021, retaliated against Korean brands, and threatened legal action against Seoul.


Iran also watched as the value of its money declined. The funds were held in Korean currency and did not earn interest, according to the Central Bank of Iran, and the won’s depreciation in recent years shaved off about $1 billion in value, leaving around $6 billion today. Iran also tapped into small amounts of that money to pay its UN dues several times.

[..]

The $6 billion transfer carries three potential risks. The first is the risk of abuse. As in the past, Iran could find ways to fraudulently claim a certain transaction is humanitarian or smuggle humanitarian goods abroad for profit. In practice, no mechanism, no matter how strict, can eliminate these risks while still facilitating food and medical sales. In addition to being vigilant about diversion and abuse, Washington should explain to the public how it will seek to identify and deter such behavior on an ongoing basis.


Second, even if the mechanism works perfectly, money is ultimately fungible. That is, even though the $6 billion from South Korea would be limited to humanitarian purchases, releasing it would free up an equal amount of money that Tehran could use for other purposes, including the defense sector. That said, claims that Iran would commit all of these resources toward nefarious purposes are likely exaggerated. Tehran has competing domestic requirements for its money, and the military and nuclear enterprise has hardly been starved for resources.

 

[otto]

snipped by me

Agreed but aren't we in danger of recycling misinformation too?

I don't know why anybody is now claiming that any reporter said that - the hospital building is demolished.
Links to those statements would be helpful

I haven't read that the BBC used the word "demolished" to describe the faulty Hamas missile that fell into a parking lot, but the BBC immediately published claims that it was an Israeli strike, the hospital was on fire, the roof collapsed, that 80% of the hospital was out of service, and that hundreds of victims are under the rubble of the hospital.

I think that is enough information for people to believe that the hospital was demolished. Today, we know that is entirely false. The hospital was not demolished, there is no rubble, and no one is under the rubble.

BBC should have verified facts before publishing the following information to their global readers because the false information incited rioting around the Middle East.


"The BBC has also spoken a British-Palestinian surgeon Professor Ghassan Abu Sittah - who was working at the hospital when the explosion - which Palestinian officials say was an Israeli strike - happened.

"Parts of the hospital are on fire," he says. "I don’t know whether that is the emergency department. But it's certainly the operating suite, part of the roof has fallen. There is glass everywhere".
...

"The BBC has managed to speak to unnamed doctor working at the hospital when the explosion - which Palestinian officials say was an Israeli strike on the hospital - happened. He added that 80% of the hospital was out of service, and that hundreds of people were killed or injured in the blast.
...

The statement says "hundreds of victims are still under the rubble".

As we reported below, a spokesman of the Israeli military would not immediately confirm if his forces were responsible. "We will look into it", he said in a televised briefing."
...

We are seeing unconfirmed reports from Hamas that Israeli warplanes have struck the Baptist Hospital in central Gaza. A health spokesman is quoted estimating that hundreds of people were killed."

October 17

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67119233/page/2

 

[cottonweaver]

Is this any help?

crypto & funding in the 2 years prior

https://twitter.com/x/status/1711768703363150326

Also WSJ previously said that Hamas received millions of dollars through cryptocurrency exchange with office in Moscow City.

These were in posts on the earlier WS threads

 

[Elley Mae]

Hamas statements ?? Really? Who believes them?

The bbc is shady to me, I don’t trust them.

Jmo

 

[otto]

Hamas statements ?? Really? Who believes them?

The bbc is shady to me, I don’t trust them.

Jmo

Regardless, the BBC immediately published statements from Hamas declaring that Israelis blew up a hospital, and that hundreds of people were trapped under the rubble. This was within minutes of the missile falling onto a parking lot.

The BBC did not verify facts, but instead relied on false information from a terrorist group that brutally murdered more than 1000 people in Israel.

 

[cottonweaver]

Hamas statements ?? Really? Who believes them?

The bbc is shady to me, I don’t trust them.

Jmo

If Hamas wanted to write the script for Israel right now - in order to alienate a key ally - they could not do a better job than what Herzog did today. ( His comments on BBC in front of a British PM)

It's as if Herzog doesn't know where British opinion is, or doesn't follow polls & doesn't understand what will happen in GB in 2024 ( He must have advisors who assist him with facts on each nation as he meets reps of each)

PS what is your reference to 'Hamas statements ?
Every single broadcaster in the West will relay Hamas statements as just like they've done so during the Russia- Ukraine war when Russian ministries state something.
The audiences aren't too stupid to be unable to make up their own mind as to whether they believe statements and claims

 

[Elley Mae]

If Hamas wanted to write the script for Israel right now - in order to alienate a key ally - they could not do a better job than what Herzog did today.

It's as if Herzog doesn't know where British opinion is, or doesn't follow polls & doesn't understand what will happen in GB in 2024

PS what is your reference to 'Hamas statements ?? Really? '
Every single broadcaster in the West will relay Hamas statements as just like they've done so during the Russia- Ukraine war when Russian ministries state something.
The audiences aren't too stupid to be unable to make up their own mind as to whether they believe statements and claims

Hundreds of Palestinians are feared dead after a huge blast at a hospital in Gaza City, blamed by the Hamas group on an Israeli air strike

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67119233

…

Any reasonable person would be appalled by the kind of thing we've seen. It's perfectly reasonable to call the incidents that have occurred "atrocities", because that's exactly what they are.
No-one can possibly defend the murder of civilians, especially children and even babies - nor attacks on innocent, peace-loving people who are attending a music festival.

Why BBC doesn't call Hamas militants 'terrorists' - John Simpson

It's simply not the BBC's job to tell people who to support and who to condemn, writes the BBC's World Affairs editor.

www.bbc.com

Just attacks & atrocities by regular folk not terrorist.

…

Not a source of news I’m interested in like many others.

Jmo

 

[cottonweaver]

Hundreds of Palestinians are feared dead after a huge blast at a hospital in Gaza City, blamed by the Hamas group on an Israeli air strike

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67119233

snipped just for focus or my reply will be too long

you have cropped the quotes in the link.

Link says :
'Hundreds of Palestinians are feared dead after a huge blast at a hospital in Gaza City, blamed by the Hamas group on an Israeli air strike. Israel says the blast was caused by rockets misfired by another group, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and both sides deny blame.'

there is no way that any reputable broadcaster in the UK, neither BBC or Sky or ITV are going to - pending seeing the substantiation themselves - start confirming it. They will wait. Sunak already said UK security services are looking at evidence.

I'll find a Sky & ITV example which follows the same SOP for combatants in war, potential war crimes etc

 

[SouthAussie]

Hundreds of Palestinians are feared dead after a huge blast at a hospital in Gaza City, blamed by the Hamas group on an Israeli air strike

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67119233

…

Any reasonable person would be appalled by the kind of thing we've seen. It's perfectly reasonable to call the incidents that have occurred "atrocities", because that's exactly what they are.
No-one can possibly defend the murder of civilians, especially children and even babies - nor attacks on innocent, peace-loving people who are attending a music festival.

Why BBC doesn't call Hamas militants 'terrorists' - John Simpson

It's simply not the BBC's job to tell people who to support and who to condemn, writes the BBC's World Affairs editor.

www.bbc.com

Just attacks & atrocities by regular folk not terrorist.

…

Not a source of news I’m interested in like many others.

Jmo

I don't read that in the way you do.

In the first comment they clearly say Hamas (not BBC) blamed the Israelis.

And militants are not regular folk. imo
They are people who use violent methods (the atrocities mentioned) to further their cause.

BBC is generally quite balanced in their reporting. imo
But each to their own.

 

[Inthedetails]

Every single broadcaster in the West will relay Hamas statements as just like they've done so during the Russia- Ukraine war when Russian ministries state something.
The audiences aren't too stupid to be unable to make up their own mind as to whether they believe statements and claims

Snipped.

Bingo.

Hamas is a key player in this conflict and journalists will report Hamas statements, labeled as Hamas statements. Readers then take responsibility in discerning the information.

jmo

 

[otto]

Snipped.

Bingo.

Hamas is a key player in this conflict and journalists will report Hamas statements, labeled as Hamas statements. Readers then take responsibility in discerning the information.

jmo

Not always ... Hamas is not mentioned, Israel is blamed, and BBC reporter describes hundreds trapped in the rubble. Israel is looking into the faulty missile, the BBC is reporting an Israeli airstrike without obtaining facts.

It's fake news. There is no rubble, and no one is trapped under the rubble.

"Scenes of chaos at hospital where hundreds were sheltering

Tom Bateman
Middle East correspondent, in Jerusalem

Pictures emerging from Al Ahli Arab hospital show scenes of chaos - with bloodied and maimed casualties being rushed out on stretchers in the darkness.

Bodies and wrecked vehicles can be seen lying in the rubble strewn street outside.
Unconfirmed videos appeared to show a huge explosion shortly beforehand.

Hundreds of displaced people had been sheltering in a hall on the hospital grounds, according to locals.

Civil defence officials say the explosion was the result of an Israeli airstrike and that hundreds are trapped in the rubble. The Israeli military says it is looking into the incident."

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67119233/page/2

 

[cottonweaver]

Maybe what would help is media explaining who PIJ are? ( Alleged rocket misfire by PIJ)
Might also explain why a speedy international investigation is off the cards ( speculation)

National Counterterrorism Center

Contains many features across the full range of issues pertaining to international terrorism: terrorist groups, wanted terrorists, and technical pages on various threat-related topics

www.dni.gov

PS
I mean explaining PIJ to audiences, most won't have heard of them

 

[cottonweaver]

Sunak playing for time, imo ( UK intelligence service will already know, just as US does. * )

https://twitter.com/x/status/1714983598904742072

* 'Washington’s assessment that Israel wasn’t behind the blast at the hospital drew, in part, on communications intercepts and other intelligence gathered by the U.S., defense officials said.” U.S., Experts Say Evidence Suggests Palestinian Militants’ Rocket Hit Gaza Hospital


BY THE WAY
- notice that the WSJ is, again, using the word ' militants' not terrorists in their title. Strange that the IDF doesn't put WSJ on their list

 

[Seattle1]

Maybe what would help is media explaining who PIJ are? ( Alleged rocket misfire by PIJ)
Might also explain why a speedy international investigation is off the cards ( speculation)

National Counterterrorism Center

Contains many features across the full range of issues pertaining to international terrorism: terrorist groups, wanted terrorists, and technical pages on various threat-related topics

www.dni.gov

Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)... credit NBC News.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna120978

 

[otto]

I would like to see a follow-up story from the BBC regarding the "arrests". Surely the BBC wants to know what charges have been brought, whether those who were arrested have legal representation, where the arrested babies are being held.

link

 

[SouthAussie]

I would like to see a follow-up story from the BBC regarding the "arrests". Surely the BBC wants to know what charges have been brought, whether those who were arrested have legal representation, where the arrested babies are being held.

link

"To its credit, the BBC this week launched an urgent probe into journalists working for its Arabic service in the Middle East, following their support of Hamas on social media platforms.

The British Government does recognize Hamas as a terrorist organization.

Since November 2021, Hamas members or supporters who are identified as such in Britain, can be imprisoned for up to 14 years."

President Isaac Herzog blasts BBC's biased reporting on Israel-Hamas war | The Jerusalem Post

President Isaac Herzog, in an exclusive interview with the Daily Mail condemned the BBC for "its atrocious refusal to brand Hamas as a terrorist group."

www.jpost.com