Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #7

[Friday Fan]

Israel Says It Will Destroy Hamas. But Who Will Govern Gaza? (Published 2023)

Israel has set itself a stiff challenge in aiming to vanquish Hamas. But an even bigger question looms: Once in Gaza, how and when does Israel get out?

www.nytimes.com

Paywalled article with a mishmash of scenarios and hypotheticals:

Israeli officials say, those questions are not their immediate concern.
Hamas represents a political and religious idea that cannot be dismantled and very hard to stop it's regeneration.
Israel either reoccupies Gaza to control it or, by withdraws with regeneration.
Israel cannot occupy Gaza indefinitely and doesn’t want to
If Gaza is smashed and the ground operations lead to the displacement of large parts of the population, it will be easier for the Israeli military to control Gaza without fully occupying it

Paper written after the 2014 war:
U.N. Truce Supervision Organization, founded in 1948, retains a legal mandate to patrol Gaza, even though it left in 1996
This could authorize UN to control Gaza’s borders while Palestinian militias are disbanded and disarmed and the Israeli and Egyptian blockade of Gaza is gradually lifted.

 

[Momoffourboys]

@Momoffourboys : Wow. Crazy unbelievable.
But not surprising.
Grrr ! Sneaky, dirty low down cowards.
Leaving civilians to be killed whilst rescuing themselves.
It's as if the Hamas' leaders don't care if Gazans suffer and die and the entire area is leveled -- as long as their murderous regime endures.

If Israel decides to target ambulances now, I believe they know who is inside them -- and are fully aware of Hamas' deceptions and tricks !
Let me guess, Hamas' leaders will put innocent people in them as well, and then cry 'foul' if they're hit ?

Someone mentioned why didn't Israel target some of the rocket launching sites in Gaza that were there before the attack on 10/7 ?
My .02 is that Israel knew there were innocent people in those kindergartens , mosques, and hospitals and declined to cause more civilian casualties.
Hence the leaflet dropping to urge people to evac.
Omo.

Israel doesn’t target ambulances, hospitals, schools, mosques.
Israel has warned the Gazans many times throughout the years prior to an attack and urged them to evacuate. Dropping leaflets is nothing new.

 

[Momoffourboys]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1716807394549014746

 

[Vern]

Not from the mouth if the IDF or the Israeli cabinet. But from the mouth of Mahmoud Abbas, PA president. October 2009.

PA President Mahmoud Abbas: Hamas Leaders Fled to the Sinai in Ambulances during the Israeli Campaign in Gaza

Following is an excerpt from a speech delivered by PA President Mahmoud Abbas at the Arab American University in Jenin. ...

www.memri.org

Oooops,

There's more of those additional War Crimes being committed by Hamas and the complicity of the PRC (Palestinian Red Crescent) once again in utilizing their "Conventionally Protected Ambulances" to assist in the commission thereof (and therefore subject to charges themselves).

All the better coming from the mouth of Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority. It's too long coming.

I linked in the other day footage of Hamas etc loading into ambulances with their weapons and of PRC ambulance drivers transporting them and their communications place to place in assistance of Hamas terrorism activity. Nothing new there under the sun. Vile, but you can't colour me surprised to hear this latest.

 

[dotr]

Hamas divers trying to sneak onto Israeli shore killed, IDF says

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

''A number of Hamas terrorists attempting to infiltrate into Israel from the Gaza Strip via the sea have been killed by Israeli Navy forces, the military says.

The Israel Defense Forces does not specify how many Hamas divers attempted to infiltrate into Israel, but Hebrew-language media reports say at least 4 terrorists were killed.''

''The IDF says a fighter jet also carried out an airstrike against a compound from which the terrorists set out.

Forces are continuing to scan the area, the IDF adds.''

Madonna's security detail upgraded after singer speaks out against Hamas massacre

***

www.haaretz.com

''The singer, who has begun her global Celebration tour, came under harsh criticism on social media after she condemned the deadly attack, writing 'My heart goes out to Israel'''

 

[Chimera]

Again my .02 is that many of these Gazan casualties are being caused either directly (using human shields adjacent to their rocket sites ?), or indirectly (misfired rockets -- Hamas: "oh, too bad.") by their elected leaders, Hamas.
Them Hamas and maybe the Palestinian Red Crescent and who knows whom else , screams -- "Israel did this to you !".
Anything to inflame the populace.
Omo.

 

[Momoffourboys]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1716879882771398940

 

[Momoffourboys]

IDF rejects allowing fuel into Gaza​

…
“Fuel will not enter the Gaza Strip. Hamas needs it for its operational infrastructure,” Hagari says.

IDF rejects allowing fuel into Gaza

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[dotr]

Lengthy, interesting.rbbm

What Israeli soldiers will face inside the labyrinth of Hamas tunnels

"Once you go down you very quickly lose all sense of direction and all sense of time,” said one expert. But a veteran tunnel fighter says sometimes they can feel "cozy."

www.nbcnews.com

''The labyrinth under Gaza itself is believed to be the most extensive, complex and sophisticated, with long passages zigzagging at different depths underground beneath population centers. Some have estimated their combined length at 150 to 300 miles, but Richemond-Barak and others say that is speculation.

Gazans have used tunnels as far back as the 1960s for smuggling, but at that time they were “short and shallow,” said Joel Roskin, a geomorphologist at Israel’s Bar-Ilan University and an IDF reserve major. The soil in Gaza is ideal for well-digging, he said, which also makes it ideal for tunneling. Early on, Roskin said, tunnel collapses were common, but over time Hamas learned how to fortify, starting with wood planks and then metal beams and cement.

Klein said that when he was in the IDF he watched as the tunnels evolved over time. He trained in shallow tunnels, but the tunnel his team found that extended from Gaza into Israel was much deeper and more advanced, with electricity and an intercom system. “It’s not like your children would do with their shovel. It was professional,” he said.''

''The IDF estimates each tunnel under Gaza costs $3 million to dig, and Hecht told the U.N. that in the past diggers were taken to sites in closed vehicles so they couldn’t see where they were and were kept underground for a few days while they dug. The Gaza tunnels aren’t used for civilians; they are reserved for Hamas, multiple military experts said.''

 

[Dotta]

Lengthy, interesting.rbbm

What Israeli soldiers will face inside the labyrinth of Hamas tunnels

"Once you go down you very quickly lose all sense of direction and all sense of time,” said one expert. But a veteran tunnel fighter says sometimes they can feel "cozy."

www.nbcnews.com

View attachment 455582
View attachment 455583
''The labyrinth under Gaza itself is believed to be the most extensive, complex and sophisticated, with long passages zigzagging at different depths underground beneath population centers. Some have estimated their combined length at 150 to 300 miles, but Richemond-Barak and others say that is speculation.

Gazans have used tunnels as far back as the 1960s for smuggling, but at that time they were “short and shallow,” said Joel Roskin, a geomorphologist at Israel’s Bar-Ilan University and an IDF reserve major. The soil in Gaza is ideal for well-digging, he said, which also makes it ideal for tunneling. Early on, Roskin said, tunnel collapses were common, but over time Hamas learned how to fortify, starting with wood planks and then metal beams and cement.

Klein said that when he was in the IDF he watched as the tunnels evolved over time. He trained in shallow tunnels, but the tunnel his team found that extended from Gaza into Israel was much deeper and more advanced, with electricity and an intercom system. “It’s not like your children would do with their shovel. It was professional,” he said.''

''The IDF estimates each tunnel under Gaza costs $3 million to dig, and Hecht told the U.N. that in the past diggers were taken to sites in closed vehicles so they couldn’t see where they were and were kept underground for a few days while they dug. The Gaza tunnels aren’t used for civilians; they are reserved for Hamas, multiple military experts said.''
View attachment 455584

We have tunnels under my city, but they are coal mines' ones

 

[sds71]

In addition to re-positioning Eisenhower, Austin said he also “activated the deployment of a Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) battery as well as additional Patriot battalions to locations throughout the region” and “placed an additional number of forces on prepare to deploy orders as part of prudent contingency planning.”

USS Dwight D. Eisenhower Carrier Strike Group officially headed toward Middle East amid Israel-Hamas conflict

On Saturday, Secretary Austin said he directed a series of steps in order to strengthen the DoD’s presence in the Middle East region – including repositioning the USS Eisenhower strike group.

www.wtkr.com

 

[Arkay]

Viewer discretion advised. Notice the brutality, and the civilian spectators.

Wow.

Speechless.

These are “civilians” who are not very civil, are they?

I‘m sorry but I cannot have sympathy or empathy for people who join in with Hamas like this.

I’ll save my sympathy for any babies in Gaza because right now IMO they are the only innocents there.

IMO

 

[Chimera]

Lengthy, interesting.rbbm

What Israeli soldiers will face inside the labyrinth of Hamas tunnels

"Once you go down you very quickly lose all sense of direction and all sense of time,” said one expert. But a veteran tunnel fighter says sometimes they can feel "cozy."

www.nbcnews.com

View attachment 455582
View attachment 455583
''The labyrinth under Gaza itself is believed to be the most extensive, complex and sophisticated, with long passages zigzagging at different depths underground beneath population centers. Some have estimated their combined length at 150 to 300 miles, but Richemond-Barak and others say that is speculation.

Gazans have used tunnels as far back as the 1960s for smuggling, but at that time they were “short and shallow,” said Joel Roskin, a geomorphologist at Israel’s Bar-Ilan University and an IDF reserve major. The soil in Gaza is ideal for well-digging, he said, which also makes it ideal for tunneling. Early on, Roskin said, tunnel collapses were common, but over time Hamas learned how to fortify, starting with wood planks and then metal beams and cement.

Klein said that when he was in the IDF he watched as the tunnels evolved over time. He trained in shallow tunnels, but the tunnel his team found that extended from Gaza into Israel was much deeper and more advanced, with electricity and an intercom system. “It’s not like your children would do with their shovel. It was professional,” he said.''

''The IDF estimates each tunnel under Gaza costs $3 million to dig, and Hecht told the U.N. that in the past diggers were taken to sites in closed vehicles so they couldn’t see where they were and were kept underground for a few days while they dug. The Gaza tunnels aren’t used for civilians; they are reserved for Hamas, multiple military experts said.''
View attachment 455584

Big enough to keep livestock beneath the surface ?
Holy ... cow.
Omo.

 

[Brightchaser47]

It's almost to the point where calling these people "savages" is even insulting to savages.
This is just utterly demonic.

Agree. Watching the interrogations, I think the reality of what they've done is sinking in, for  some of these young men.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Lengthy, interesting.rbbm

What Israeli soldiers will face inside the labyrinth of Hamas tunnels

"Once you go down you very quickly lose all sense of direction and all sense of time,” said one expert. But a veteran tunnel fighter says sometimes they can feel "cozy."

www.nbcnews.com

View attachment 455582
View attachment 455583
''The labyrinth under Gaza itself is believed to be the most extensive, complex and sophisticated, with long passages zigzagging at different depths underground beneath population centers. Some have estimated their combined length at 150 to 300 miles, but Richemond-Barak and others say that is speculation.

Gazans have used tunnels as far back as the 1960s for smuggling, but at that time they were “short and shallow,” said Joel Roskin, a geomorphologist at Israel’s Bar-Ilan University and an IDF reserve major. The soil in Gaza is ideal for well-digging, he said, which also makes it ideal for tunneling. Early on, Roskin said, tunnel collapses were common, but over time Hamas learned how to fortify, starting with wood planks and then metal beams and cement.

Klein said that when he was in the IDF he watched as the tunnels evolved over time. He trained in shallow tunnels, but the tunnel his team found that extended from Gaza into Israel was much deeper and more advanced, with electricity and an intercom system. “It’s not like your children would do with their shovel. It was professional,” he said.''

''The IDF estimates each tunnel under Gaza costs $3 million to dig, and Hecht told the U.N. that in the past diggers were taken to sites in closed vehicles so they couldn’t see where they were and were kept underground for a few days while they dug. The Gaza tunnels aren’t used for civilians; they are reserved for Hamas, multiple military experts said.''
View attachment 455584

Very interesting and enlightening article.

But I’m stuck on why they would lower an alive calf into the tunnel? My first thought was for food source, but would there be another reason?

Sorry if this is a dumb question. I am an animal lover and it just struck me as strange.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Wow.

Speechless.

These are “civilians” who are not very civil, are they?

I‘m sorry but I cannot have sympathy or empathy for people who join in with Hamas like this.

I’ll save my sympathy for any babies in Gaza because right now IMO they are the only innocents there.

IMO

Same. How do you separate Hamas between these civilians? To me - anyone who supports their brutality is with them!

 

[Brightchaser47]

My guess? This son of Netanyahu would be the number one target of Hamas if he returned to Israel. Kinda like Prince Harry when he was 'fighting' in the Royal Navy....

He's staying put, no doubt

There are also Israelis who are very unhappy with Netanyahu right now...

 

[Falling Down]

In addition to re-positioning Eisenhower, Austin said he also “activated the deployment of a Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) battery as well as additional Patriot battalions to locations throughout the region” and “placed an additional number of forces on prepare to deploy orders as part of prudent contingency planning.”

USS Dwight D. Eisenhower Carrier Strike Group officially headed toward Middle East amid Israel-Hamas conflict

On Saturday, Secretary Austin said he directed a series of steps in order to strengthen the DoD’s presence in the Middle East region – including repositioning the USS Eisenhower strike group.

www.wtkr.com

U.S. is participating in nuclear war games on three continents right now. Latest is southern CA, as of last night.

No doubt in my mind NATO, the U.S., Japan, and S. Korea are being vigilant about what's going on.

THAAD is high-altitude missile defense, also an Aegis cruiser with medium-altitude defense is over there, and lastly Patriot batteries with low-altitude capabilities has been in place for a while.

Stay tuned...

 

[Brightchaser47]

RSBM

“There were guards and a paramedic and a doctor who took care of the fact that we’ll have the same medicine that we need.”

- Guards come from Hamas
- Paramedics come from the Palestinian Red Crescent
- Doctors come from the Gazan Health Ministry which is run by Hamas

Interesting that they were there waiting for hostages to show up and prepared to provide all required prescription drugs.
Interesting too that to date the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has still not been given any access to the hostages forcibly relocated to Gaza on 7 October (except to receive four of them from Hamas terrorists for onward transfer).

She says all of the above were well prepared for their arrival.

Says a whole heck of a bunch about complicity of people not identifying as terrorists with Hamas.

I am so thankful that this hostage is released and doing well. Her statement is so telling if one really reads the details.

Thank you. My thoughts, exactly.

 

[Arkay]

Hundreds rally near UN, at NYC synagogue to support families of Israeli hostages

"There are over 200 hostages being held in Gaza right now, over 100 of them are from 33 countries, where is the world?" the mother of a hostage said.

abc7ny.com

Oh, if I’d known about this I would have gone there.

God help these families. I don’t know if the U.N. will.