GUILTY Italy- Finnegan Elder, 19 & Gabriel Hjorth, 18, US students, police murder, 26 Jul 2019 *guilty* *new trial 2023*

[otto]

Snipped by me and bolded by me for focus. Both of these men are adults and can travel anywhere they choose. I am not sure who paid for the trip or why. But to assume that this was a ploy by the family to give them good fun seems wrong to me.

I don't think it is fair to paint their families with any kind of brush as they are probably devastated and destroyed that their child(ren) could do something so cruel, callous and permanent. If they are families with means, it doesn't not automatically mean that they are enablers of their children whether they are ne'er do wells or upstanders with a drug/alcohol problem.

According to the families (article linked earlier today), Gabriel was traveling with his father and Grandfather in Italy. His grandfather lives in Italy. He had a year at college to study architecture. Elder contacted him because they know each other from school and they got together for a day. Gabriel claims he didn't know that Elder had a knife, even though they had a hotel room together. He has to agree that he knew they intended to beat the "drug dealers," because that is what he did, so maybe he will argue that his sentence should be limited to beating a drug dealer, which, in connection with a murder, with good behavior is 16 years with rehabilitation and early work release.

It's possible that their families wanted to give them an experience of a different culture. It sounds like Gabriel's family didn't know that Finnegan was tagging along - since he wasn't staying with the family.

 

[kaen]

According to the families (article linked earlier today), Gabriel was traveling with his father and Grandfather in Italy. His grandfather lives in Italy. He had a year at college to study architecture. Elder contacted him because they know each other from school and they got together for a day. Gabriel claims he didn't know that Elder had a knife, even though they had a hotel room together. He has to agree that he knew they intended to beat the "drug dealers," because that is what he did, so maybe he will argue that his sentence should be limited to beating a drug dealer, which, in connection with a murder, with good behavior is 16 years with rehabilitation and early work release.

It's possible that their families wanted to give them an experience of a different culture. It sounds like Gabriel's family didn't know that Finnegan was tagging along - since he wasn't staying with the family.

Absolutely. My original post was in reference to the idea that these families were wanting to have their kids go out an create havoc in Italy as on spring break in Mexico. That is just an unfair characterization from my perspective. Having means, providing experiences, etc is not the equivalent of saying go and mayhem just not in our backyard as it assumes the families are bad actors or acting with callousness toward others. And, the men are the age of majority --free to travel and make adult decisions.

 

[otto]

Absolutely. My original post was in reference to the idea that these families were wanting to have their kids go out an create havoc in Italy as on spring break in Mexico. That is just an unfair characterization from my perspective. Having means, providing experiences, etc is not the equivalent of saying go and mayhem just not in our backyard as it assumes the families are bad actors or acting with callousness toward others. And, the men are the age of majority --free to travel and make adult decisions.

I knew that. It's quite a novel idea to think that some parents fire their children off to Europe to get them out of their hair for a couple of weeks, but it happens. What doesn't add up is that if Gabriel was visiting his grandfather and his was a joint trip, why wasn't Finnegan also staying with his grandfather? Did Gabriel and Finnegan cook this up between themselves, plan to meet, get a hotel, get loaded on cocaine and beat or kill someone? Did Gabriel's father arrive after they were eager to leave the country?

Steve Moore should weigh in early on this one. He and his wife were very active in the last Italian murder trial involving a suspect from the US, if only to demonstrate impartiality.

 

[otto]

It's a bit like Sheila Mack and her daughter Heather on vacation in Bali, where Heather's boyfriend secretly joined them. Heather and her boyfriend committed murder in that situation. Maybe Gabriel and Finnegan also thought they could get away with murder more easily in a foreign country.

Gabriel was there with his family. Maybe Finnegan secretly planned his trip with Gabriel, Gabriel met him and they committed murder for a cocaine high in Italy. Even without the cocaine, they committed murder that night.

 

[10ofRods]

Absolutely. My original post was in reference to the idea that these families were wanting to have their kids go out an create havoc in Italy as on spring break in Mexico. That is just an unfair characterization from my perspective. Having means, providing experiences, etc is not the equivalent of saying go and mayhem just not in our backyard as it assumes the families are bad actors or acting with callousness toward others. And, the men are the age of majority --free to travel and make adult decisions.

But I will bet that neither paid their way. They were “free” to travel with family funds and permissions. Just a hunch based on economics

Gabriel is doing an excellent job of separating himself from Elder, legally. Elder is the one apparently sent to Italy without parental supervision, but I am guessing on parental dime. The parents surely now regret it.

 

[otto]

But I will bet that neither paid their way. They were “free” to travel with family funds and permissions. Just a hunch based on economics

Gabriel is doing an excellent job of separating himself from Elder, legally. Elder is the one apparently sent to Italy without parental supervision, but I am guessing on parental dime. The parents surely now regret it.

Parent who fire their children off to Europe for a couple of weeks might also give them a credit card for emergencies. Perhaps they were free to purchase plane tickets to Italy, but Gabriel was already in Europe visiting his grandfather when Finnegan arrived.

If anything, it looks like Gabriel planned to be there, and Finnegan tagged along. It also looks like they planned to meet, as though Gabriel knew that Finnegan was joining him in Italy.

Maybe Gabriel can legitimately separate himself from Finnegan Elder based on flight and accommodation facts. He can't separate himself from attacking the officers, who they believed to be drug dealers. Elder's parents apparently were not paying attention. Their son caused permanent brain damage to someone his age 2 years ago and there were no consequences. It's not surprising that he carried a knife to Italy to get cocaine and commit murder.

 

[Medstudies]

Just chiming in. I think it’s feasible that Gabriel was oblivious to Finnegan packing the knife. But between the eye witness and material witness, it looks certain FE killed the officer. (Question remains in my mind: was this premeditated? Or misunderstanding due to language barrier?)

What I find curious, and what may be completely innocent, is how the circulated photo of Finnegan (hotel) has now been cropped.

From early report:
2 American Teenagers Admit Killing Police Officer in Rome, Officials Say

And today: Father and grandfather of US teen held over Italian cop murder are seen for time since his arrest | Daily Mail Online

Conveniently, the prescription bottle has been cropped out.

 

[otto]

He looks wasted. People were probably speculating on what sort of drugs he is on that might have a role in his decisions.

 

[FrostOwl]

It would be interesting to know when the photos in the hotel room was taken, and who took them, as NH is wearing the same outfit in the hotel room as he's wearing in the blindfold photo at the police station. Was he wearing something else during the attack on the police officers, and changed to clothes he had wore earlier, or if he had wore that same outfit, he didn't get any blood on his clothes.

 

[Legally Bland]

It would be interesting to know when the photos in the hotel room was taken, and who took them, as NH is wearing the same outfit in the hotel room as he's wearing in the blindfold photo at the police station. Was he wearing something else during the attack on the police officers, and changed to clothes he had wore earlier, or if he had wore that same outfit, he didn't get any blood on his clothes.

Police said the teens were arrested at Hotel Meridien Visconti in central Rome and investigators found a bloody large knife believed to have been used in the attack and bloody clothes in the ceiling tiles of the room they were staying in.

Finnegan Elder: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

 

[FrostOwl]

Police said the teens were arrested at Hotel Meridien Visconti in central Rome and investigators found a bloody large knife believed to have been used in the attack and bloody clothes in the ceiling tiles of the room they were staying in.

Yes, I do know this, but what I want to know is if the photos of FE and NH sitting on the bed in the hotel room are taken when they were arrested, or at some other time. Also, if there were two sets of bloody clothes, or only one set, FE:s clothes.

 

[Isabelle98]

Yes, I do know this, but what I want to know is if the photos of FE and NH sitting on the bed in the hotel room are taken when they were arrested, or at some other time. Also, if there were two sets of bloody clothes, or only one set, FE:s clothes.

Our tv news said nothing about these photos...really strange...

 

[Medstudies]

La madre di Elder: "Fa uso di marijuana, ha perso un dito".

The mother of FE was interviewed. The headline:

“Fa uso di marijuana, ha perso un dito”
Which translates to “he uses marijuana, he lost a finger”

She (mother) goes on to say “Non mi sono mai accorta che usasse altre droghe” (I never noticed that he used other drugs)

She also goes on to say that “he’s a thoughtful boy” and “she hasn’t talked with him”

There are some interesting photos posted on matadornetwork.com but I’m not sure if it is considered MSM? (photos that were tagged from IG (finntrill) that appear to be FE flashing cash and a very large knife. )

From this article: San Francisco Teen Accused Of Killing Italian Police Officer Was Charged In Classmate Assault

The arm tattoos seem to match those in the IG snaps.

 

[Medstudies]

Our tv news said nothing about these photos...really strange...

the Italian news have images of FE in a police car. He appears to be wearing the same white shirt. So, MOO, the photo on the bed was taken by LE at time of arrest.

Pure speculation and of course he may have many white shirts

 

[clearskies1]

Yes, I do know this, but what I want to know is if the photos of FE and NH sitting on the bed in the hotel room are taken when they were arrested, or at some other time. Also, if there were two sets of bloody clothes, or only one set, FE:s clothes.

The NY Times attributes the hotel bed photos to Italian Police, via the AP. 2 American Teenagers Admit Killing Police Officer in Rome, Officials Say Also, in the second photo in this NY Post article (swipe through to the 2nd photo) Elder has on the same white tee shirt as he sits in the back of an Italian police car as he was taken away. https://nypost.com/2019/07/31/us-te...ssmate-severe-brain-injury-in-brutal-beating/ So the hotel bed photos seem like they were taken by police while the two were being confronted in their hotel room prior to the arrest.

 

[Isabelle98]

La madre di Elder: "Fa uso di marijuana, ha perso un dito".

The mother of FE was interviewed. The headline:

“Fa uso di marijuana, ha perso un dito”
Which translates to “he uses marijuana, he lost a finger”

She (mother) goes on to say “Non mi sono mai accorta che usasse altre droghe” (I never noticed that he used other drugs)

She also goes on to say that “he’s a thoughtful boy” and “she hasn’t talked with him”

There are some interesting photos posted on matadornetwork.com but I’m not sure if it is considered MSM? (photos that were tagged from IG (finntrill) that appear to be FE flashing cash and a very large knife. )

From this article: San Francisco Teen Accused Of Killing Italian Police Officer Was Charged In Classmate Assault

The arm tattoos seem to match those in the IG snaps.

"thoughtful boy"....really???
I know she's his mother and she will be always by his side but calling him "thoughtful" is really too much to swallow.... O_O

 

[FrostOwl]

Well, if the hotel room photos are taken when they were arrested, that explains the look of total disbelief in their faces, especially FE. I don't know if it's common in Italy for the police to hand out photos to the press of people who are arrested, before they have been charged. That's not something that would be allowed in Sweden, as it could influence possible witnesses, and harm the investigation, as well as the right of the accused to a fair trial. I do hope the police have enough with evidence (from for example CCTV) to get a conviction, and that eventual mistakes, such as the blindfold, won't lead to a mistrial.

 

[otto]

Well, if the hotel room photos are taken when they were arrested, that explains the look of total disbelief in their faces, especially FE. I don't know if it's common in Italy for the police to hand out photos to the press of people who are arrested, before they have been charged. That's not something that would be allowed in Sweden, as it could influence possible witnesses, and harm the investigation, as well as the right of the accused to a fair trial. I do hope the police have enough with evidence (from for example CCTV) to get a conviction, and that eventual mistakes, such as the blindfold, won't lead to a mistrial.

It's hard to say. There is CCTV footage of them running away after the murder and police were able to locate them right away. They also have an eyewitness in the officer who was assaulted by Gabriel.

 

[Medstudies]

"thoughtful boy"....really???
I know she's his mother and she will be always by his side but calling him "thoughtful" is really too much to swallow.... O_O

Right?! I’d like to think I would choose my words more carefully. Just to be sensitive.

 

[otto]

Right?! I’d like to think I would choose my words more carefully. Just to be sensitive.

She must be in complete disbelief, but this isn't the first time her son destroyed someone's life so she shouldn't be all that surprised. Pointing out that her son smokes pot and doesn't use cocaine suggests that she is in denial about the circumstances that led to the murder. Mentioned a partially missing finger is perhaps expressing doubt that her son could use a knife to stab a police officer.