Italy - Sailing yacht sank off Italian coast, 15 rescued, 7 missing, 19 August 2024

  • #661
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"Chilling video 'captured by British Bayesian crew member' shows brutal storms approaching hours before doomed yacht sank killing seven"

If true, doesn't that make one wonder if the crew knew the approach of the "brutal" storm for "hours", why they may not have been fully prepared for the worst, presuming they were not.

ET: return to original version of post.
 
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  • #662
"Chilling video 'captured by British Bayesian crew member' shows brutal storms approaching hours before doomed yacht sank killing seven"

If true, doesn't that make one wonder if the crew knew the approach of the "brutal" storm for "hours", why they may not have been fully prepared for the worst, presuming they were not.

IMO.

In the Superyacht News video he shows the predictive weather maps. Their view is that nothing indicates the downburst that happened.
 
  • #663
In the Superyacht News video he shows the predictive weather maps. Their view is that nothing indicates the downburst that happened.
Right...

That video you found, @SouthAussie is fantastic!

Below is the weather radar image Italian Sea Group shared with Italian media, claiming the crew must have known about the approaching storms, per that Superyacht News video, @ 7:50.

But I disagree with the news anchor in the video when he implies the crew would not have know about a downburst or how serious the storms were.I agree that no one on board could have predicted the downburst.

However ^^^ @SpanishInquisition posted a high alert about a Cyclone in the region in Italy that weekend. I responded IMO it was crystal clear there was a weather phenomenon unfolding that weekend, predicting volatile and potentially damaging storms for 18-8.

This storm struck just a few hours past 18-8.

Screenshot_20241005_180451_YouTube.jpg

ETA: to include weather data.and links
IMO.
 
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  • #664
But I disagree with the news anchor in the video when he implies the crew would not have know about a downburst or how serious the storms were.I agree that no one on board could have predicted the downburst.

ESysman is not exactly a news anchor. He is a British Electro-Technical Officer who has been sailing on large yachts for over 20 years.

He does not have any special interest to protect, like others involved in this tragedy. Which is why I like to listen to his experienced opinions, as well as the opinions of others who have crewed on superyachts.

Portrait of Youtuber eSysman "Correcting inaccuracies"
 
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  • #665
  • #666
Footage of Bayesian on the sea floor has been shown on Italian TV.


Laying on its starboard side, so its port side is in view. I am guessing that, in the first photo, that red circle is around the closed door in the hull.

a.jpg

(from your link)

I don't really understand what it means by the 'watertight doors of the engine room were flooded'. Were they bulging?

I wish I could see the ITVX show but every time I look it says the video is unavailable. I don't know if it is unavailable in my region, or everywhere.

 
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  • #667
  • #668
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  • #669
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  • #670
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I read the NY Times article, where the DM got their information. The NY Times consulted with more than a dozen naval architects, engineers and other experts.

It is a good and very long article.

Some of their points are: (paraphrased in case of a paywall, but a free account allows you to read it)

- Two tall doors on either side of the deck, increasing the chances taking on dangerous amounts of water if the boat was pushed over towards its side by high winds
- How close air vents are to the waterline
- Where the ship's ballast was place in the hull ... instead of it being spread evenly through the hull, it was stacked towards the rear of the hull (naval architect says that makes no sense, and he had never seen the main ballast used in this way before)
- The mast is 40 feet taller than the original foremast, and very heavy ... made from at least 24 tons of aluminium as opposed to lighter carbon fibre
- The single mast was not placed where it should have been, because that would have meant it would have gone right through the wheelhouse
- The sunken deck was added (along with the two tall doors), no other Perini yacht in that series have this feature. The deck reduced the boat's buoyancy and allowed the boat to take on huge amounts of water when tipped. The tall doors would allow water to gush down the main staircase.
- The yacht sits lower in the water than other yachts in the same series, making it easier for water to enter through vents and other openings

In addition, the NY Times obtained the stability book for the Bayesian and the stability book for a sister ship. The Bayesian was less stable, a two masted ship could lean 10 degrees farther on its side before taking on water.

And the storm that hit that night was predicted to hit hundreds of miles from Sicily. Mr Borner (the captain of the other boat that rescued the people) thought that the curvature of the Porticello coastline should protect them.

Divers saw all hatches closed. (said by an Italian official)

The experts think that it was not one factor but a whole range of factors that caused the sudden and very quick sinking.

 
  • #671
I read the NY Times article, where the DM got their information. The NY Times consulted with more than a dozen naval architects, engineers and other experts.

RSBM
Thank you, @SouthAussie, for summarizing key points of the NYT article as it is behind a paywall.

And then there's this from 7/11/2024:

"The Italian Sea Group (TISG) has announced legal action against the New York Times following an article published on October 31, 2024. The article raised questions about the stability of the Bayesian, a yacht designed by renowned naval architect Ron Holland, and implied potential flaws in its design... "TISG claims the article lacks technical rigor and cites unnamed sources, challenging the credibility of the allegations."
 
  • #672
RSBM
Thank you, @SouthAussie, for summarizing key points of the NYT article as it is behind a paywall.

And then there's this from 7/11/2024:

"The Italian Sea Group (TISG) has announced legal action against the New York Times following an article published on October 31, 2024. The article raised questions about the stability of the Bayesian, a yacht designed by renowned naval architect Ron Holland, and implied potential flaws in its design... "TISG claims the article lacks technical rigor and cites unnamed sources, challenging the credibility of the allegations."
Back in September there was a whole kerfuffle where TISG sued the estate of Mike Lynch, essentially for dying in one of their yachts. And then the next day they backed off and claimed the suit was unauthorized.

Now they're supposedly going to sue the NY Times. It seems suing journalists is a common tactic in Italy, but they clearly have no grounds under U.S. law. IMO it just makes the company look ridiculous.
 
  • #673
I read the NY Times article, where the DM got their information. The NY Times consulted with more than a dozen naval architects, engineers and other experts.

It is a good and very long article.

Some of their points are: (paraphrased in case of a paywall, but a free account allows you to read it)

- Two tall doors on either side of the deck, increasing the chances taking on dangerous amounts of water if the boat was pushed over towards its side by high winds
- How close air vents are to the waterline
- Where the ship's ballast was place in the hull ... instead of it being spread evenly through the hull, it was stacked towards the rear of the hull (naval architect says that makes no sense, and he had never seen the main ballast used in this way before)
- The mast is 40 feet taller than the original foremast, and very heavy ... made from at least 24 tons of aluminium as opposed to lighter carbon fibre
- The single mast was not placed where it should have been, because that would have meant it would have gone right through the wheelhouse
- The sunken deck was added (along with the two tall doors), no other Perini yacht in that series have this feature. The deck reduced the boat's buoyancy and allowed the boat to take on huge amounts of water when tipped. The tall doors would allow water to gush down the main staircase.
- The yacht sits lower in the water than other yachts in the same series, making it easier for water to enter through vents and other openings

In addition, the NY Times obtained the stability book for the Bayesian and the stability book for a sister ship. The Bayesian was less stable, a two masted ship could lean 10 degrees farther on its side before taking on water.

And the storm that hit that night was predicted to hit hundreds of miles from Sicily. Mr Borner (the captain of the other boat that rescued the people) thought that the curvature of the Porticello coastline should protect them.

Divers saw all hatches closed. (said by an Italian official)

The experts think that it was not one factor but a whole range of factors that caused the sudden and very quick sinking.


wow that's a lot of liability IMO
 
  • #674
"The race to refloat the Bayesian superyacht"

Two items struck me for the first time,

1. How incredibly tall the mast is...

"...plans... involve rotating the 55.9-meter (184-foot) yacht... without removing the fuel or dismantling the 72-meter (236-foot) mast... meaning the tip of the mast will stick out above the surface some 22 meters (72 feet) once the yacht is upright on the seabed... " :oops:

2. How large the insurance on the yacht is...

"The yacht is insured for around $2.1 billion, according to records... which lists several different insurance companies that covered the ship for liability as well as its engine and hull. :oops:

ETA: 2nd point
 
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  • #675
"The race to refloat the Bayesian superyacht"

Two items struck me for the first time,

1. How incredibly tall the mast is...

"...plans... involve rotating the 55.9-meter (184-foot) yacht... without removing the fuel or dismantling the 72-meter (236-foot) mast... meaning the tip of the mast will stick out above the surface some 22 meters (72 feet) once the yacht is upright on the seabed... " :oops:

2. How large the insurance on the yacht is...

"The yacht is insured for around $2.1 billion, according to records... which lists several different insurance companies that covered the ship for liability as well as its engine and hull. :oops:

ETA: 2nd point
Well, something isn't right here. The yacht was valued at something around $40 million. So it can't really be insured for $2 billion. Either those are different polices that will have exclusions for other coverage, or there is coverage for other "things". There are a lot of weird things starting to come out now.
 
  • #676
Well, something isn't right here. The yacht was valued at something around $40 million. So it can't really be insured for $2 billion. Either those are different polices that will have exclusions for other coverage, or there is coverage for other "things". There are a lot of weird things starting to come out now.
I assume that policy includes liability insurance. My auto policy covers $500,000 in liability even though my car is worth just a fraction of that. There may also be some sort of umbrella policy that covers Lynch's entire estate.
 
  • #677
I assume that policy includes liability insurance. My auto policy covers $500,000 in liability even though my car is worth just a fraction of that. There may also be some sort of umbrella policy that covers Lynch's entire estate.
Yes the employers liability insurance would presumably compensate the crew members families for their loss. Big numbers I would say JMO
 
  • #678
"Bayesian, which sank off the coast of Porticello, Sicily, in August last year, is set to be retrieved before the summer season starts, the PA news agency has learned.

Plans to raise the boat have taken longer than expected and Italian authorities, including the coastguard and the prosecutor's office, will review them before giving the green light.

Environmental authorities in Italy must also agree to the plan, it is understood.

The Italian coastguard has been monitoring the sea to make sure there are no fuel leaks from the yacht's tank, a spokesman said."

 
  • #679
"Our experience is that it can take years until reports are released," Allan says, "Firstly, because the MAIB will want to wait for the wreck to be lifted for inspection, and secondly, because interested parties must first be notified and consulted with on the findings. There's a lot of work that goes on in the background in investigating such a significant casualty."

MAIB's former chief inspector of marine accidents, Stephen Clinch, concurs, claiming he would be "surprised" to see the report released within the year. "This is not as straightforward as a fire, where you can climb on board and assess. A lot of work will be invested into the yacht's design, maybe doing tank tests or model tests, as well as an investigation into whether the approvals process was robust enough," he explains. "I think around 18 months would be a fair assumption."


 
  • #680
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