It's Christmas once again at Wal-Mart

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  • #61
MREG2 said:
Didn't mean to overreact... :o Blame in on pregnancy hormones....

I'm just tired of hearing people say that certain faiths, etc need to quit forcing their religions (or whatever the topic may be at that time) on others. Who is forcing anything?? Maybe I need to polish up on what "to force" means... But no one I know intimidates, threatens, holds a gun to anyone, twists anyone's arm, yadda yadda to do anything be it praying or shopping at Christmas time.

What if roles were reversed and it was Hanukah that was celebrated the way Christmas is today? Does that give me (a Christian) the right to get all ticked because someone wished me Happy Hanukah instead of Christmas? No. Would I start going balisitc because someone was forcing their religion on me? No. I would accept that that is what society is about and go on celebrating the birth of my Lord and leave the rest out of it. But I guess people have to have something to complain about and why not how people greet you at Christmas. Next thing you know, if you don't greet someone because you're afraid of offending them, then you're labeling as a stuck up rude person with no social skills. Just can't win for losing.

BTW, it doesn't matter to me what WalMart has on their signs. I will celebrate Christmas no matter how some store greets me......
You do know it wasn't his actual birthday don't you?
But I guess he was born on one day of the year, I'm sure we can all agree on that.
 
  • #62
narlacat said:
You do know it wasn't his actual birthday don't you?
But I guess he was born on one day of the year, I'm sure all will agree on that.

Uh...yea, I know that. I don't see it any differently than what we do in my family. We group all of the months birthdays together so that we aren't having 5 birthday parties in one month. So we pick one day to celebrate but that doesn't demean any one of those births.......
 
  • #63
MREG2 said:
Then I'm sorry... This isn't the thread for it but I am curious as to why?
The government should be secular.

Public praying in a public school, is not appropriate. There are religious schools for that. I attended one as a child.

No one stops anyone from silently praying in the course of a day if they choose to do so discreetly. Who would know?

Religious displays in public buildings are not appropriate. We are not a Christian nation.

We are a plurality. Religious freedom is what our country is founded on.
 
  • #64
MREG2 said:
Then those Christians are out of line. Especially that pastor. Guess that is where everyone needs to get over their differences. But I can't believe anyone would boycott a store over it. Did it really happen? I'd be interested to know if WalMart lost business due to their changing to Happy Holidays.

I won't stand up for a secular government. Does it really matter if the 10 commandments are in a court of law? It's not like they are used during trials or anything. Does it matter if schools offer a minute or two to pray? Those who don't believe in prayer can use those minutes to go over test notes or oogled their latest crushes. But those who do pray can use those minutes to pray for that test or to pray that their latest crushes are oogling them. :crazy: When it is all said and done, does it really matter?
I'm afraid it really does matter. Can a jew or a muslim or an atheist get a fair trial in a courtroom where the judge posts the 10 commandments as his law? And says he follows God's law?

Oh, yeah - lots of boycotters, lots of pastors. Here you go:
http://www.catholicleague.org/05press_releases/quarter%204/051109_Wal-Mart_boycott.htm
And, this is a fascinating link to read right after that one (don't worry, both are short) - shows how the boycott was partly based on there being only a mere 7970 items bearing the term Christmas, 5668 items bearing the word Jesus, against a whole 200 items for Hanukkah and 77 Kwanzaa items!
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47330

http://www.churchofthedivide.org/boycottflyer.htm

And this link is maybe the best - about the battle last year: http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/m/merrychristmas.htm

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002661545_christmasfight03.html
"I think it's disingenuous to say that Christmas is threatened just because government is not promoting your view or your favorite way of promoting the holiday," said K. Hollyn Hollman, general counsel of the Baptist Joint Commission for Religious Liberty, which stresses church-state separation.
 
  • #65
MREG2 said:
Uh...yea, I know that. I don't see it any differently than what we do in my family. We group all of the months birthdays together so that we aren't having 5 birthday parties in one month. So we pick one day to celebrate but that doesn't demean any one of those births.......
Guess everyone knows it.

They had to pick one day....

That he was born of a virgin birth is the part that gets me.

That's about as crazy as the whole Adam and Eve trip.
 
  • #66
LinasK said:
Except that I don't like the majority assuming everyone including me is Christian- the greeter at Walmart doesn't know my religion, nor should he! I also don't like strangers telling me "God Bless You" Why does it have to be personalized? It's a Holiday Season- other people are out buying presents too, NOT just for Christmas, it should be a generalized Happy Holidays- not the exclusivity of the expression "Merry Christmas"! Nobody is taking your celebration away from you- but I don't want it forced on me. I'll pick and chose my own traditions.

I don't feel like anyone is trying to force their religion on me. I've had people say Happy Hanukkah, and that doesn't bother me one little bit. What I am tired of is trying to figure out how to make everyone happy. I'm sick of all the political correctness BS.

Pick your own traditions. No one is trying to force anything down your throat.
 
  • #67
Paladin said:
I applaud this move. I seriously tire of what I call political over-correctness. This is a step back in the right direction.

Exactly. That's what I am sick of. All this political correctness BS.
 
  • #68
Ntegrity said:
Should I be offended by Martin Luther King Day since I'm a caucasian?

Good question.
 
  • #69
I just can't see going nuts about whichever someone decides to use - if I walk into a store and am greeted by "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" - whatever - I don't get why people get so nuts over it. Maybe Wal-mart should try saying, "Happy Hanukkah" to everyone - that might work.

I'll admit, I find Happy Holidays a little nice, just knowing that they're trying to include me - but whatever they choose, they're just a big business trying to vaccum money out of my pocket.

Government, schools - they're compulsory - they'd better be secular, but a business can do whatever they like.
 
  • #70
Oh good grief, Christmas has been around long before all of us has, and it's been celebrated as Christs' birth.. That is where it originated from. Are we going to rewrite the history of this because people get offended too easily over simple words like "Merry Christmas".. :doh: :doh:
 
  • #71
tybee204 said:
IMO this is all silly. Several of my closest friends are Jewish. They are business owners and Christmas is promoted in their retail establishments just like WalMart or any other retail store. Business is business and The Christmas Holiday is what keeps everyones books in the black. Regardless of Race, Religion or Cultural Ethninticity.
Just thinking this same thing myself. You said it best.
A lot of Jewish businesses make most of their money during the holidays. They'd be cutting their own throats if they didn't decorate the stores and with their customers a Merry Christmas.

Living in Florida and shopping many small business, you really couldn't tell by looking at the stores whether they were Jewish or Christian owned.

The main thing to remember is it's a season of joy for many religions and cultures. Everyone should treat everyone else with joy, cheer and respect.
 
  • #72
Isn't Halloween considered a spiritual holiday as well? It's about believing in ghosts. People say "Happy Halloween" and I don't hear a big roar over that one. Maybe I should call Wallmart up and tell them to get rid of their Happy Halloween cards because I don't believe in ghosts... :D
 
  • #73
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas - some fascinating history here - a few snippets:
The fortieth day after Christmas was Candlemas. The Egyptian Christmas celebration on January 6 was adopted as Epiphany, one of the most prominent holidays of the year during Early Middle Ages. Christmas Day itself was a relatively minor holiday, although its prominence gradually increased after Charlemagne was crowned on Christmas Day in 800 AD.......

Northern Europe was the last part to Christianize, and its pagan celebrations had a major influence on Christmas. Scandinavians still call Christmas Jul (Yule), originally the name of a twelve-day pre-Christian winter festival. Logs were lit to honor Thor, the god of thunder, hence the "Yule log." In Germany, the equivalent holiday is called Mitwinternacht (mid-winter night).....

King Richard II of England hosted a Christmas feast in 1377 at which twenty-eight oxen and three hundred sheep were eaten.[9] The "Yule boar" was a common feature of medieval Christmas feasts. Caroling also became popular, and was originally a group of dancers who sang. The group was composed of a lead singer and a ring of dancers that provided the chorus. Various writers of the time condemned caroling as lewd, largely due to overtones reminiscent of the traditions of Saturnalia and Yule).[9] "Misrule" — drunkenness, promiscuity, gambling — was also an important aspect of the festival. In England, gifts were exchanged on New Year's Day, and there was special Christmas ale.[9] ....

When a Puritan parliament triumphed over the King, Charles I of England (1644), Christmas was officially banned (1647). Pro-Christmas rioting broke out in several cities. For several weeks, Canterbury was controlled by the rioters, who decorated doorways with holly and shouted royalist slogans.[11] The Restoration (1660) ended the ban, but Christmas celebration was still disapproved of by the Anglican clergy.

By the 1820s, sectarian tension had eased and British writers began to worry that Christmas was dying out. They imagined Tudor Christmas as a time of heartfelt celebration, and efforts were made to revive the holiday. The book A Christmas Carol (1843) by Charles Dickens played a major role in reinventing Christmas as a holiday emphasizing family, goodwill, and compassion (as opposed to communal celebration and hedonistic excess).[12]...

Christmas fell out of favor in the U.S. after the American Revolution, when it was considered an "English custom". Interest was revived by several short stories by Washington Irving in The Sketch Book of Geoffrey Crayon (1819) and by "Old Christmas" (1850) which depict harmonous warm-hearted holiday traditions Irving claimed to have observed in England. Although some argue that Irving invented the traditions he describes, they were imitated by his American readers.[1] German immigrants and the homecomings of the Civil War helped promote the holiday. Christmas was declared a federal holiday in the U.S. in 1870....

In the midst of World War I, there was a Christmas truce between German and British troops in France (1914). Soldiers on both sides spontaneously began to sing Christmas carols and stopped fighting. The truce began on Christmas Day and continued for some time afterward. There was even a soccer game between the trench lines in which Germany's 133rd Royal Saxon Regiment is said to have bested Britain's Seaforth Highlanders 3-2.

In modern times, the United States has experienced some controversy over the nature of Christmas, and whether it is a religious or a secular holiday. Because the US government recognizes Christmas as an official holiday, some have thought that this violates separation of church and state. This has been brought to trial several times, including Lynch v. Donnelly (1984) and Ganulin v. United States (1999). On December 6, 1999, the verdict for Ganulin v. United States (1999). declared that "the establishment of Christmas Day as a legal public holiday does not violate the Establishment Clause because it has a valid secular purpose." This decision was appealed, and upheld by the Supreme Court on December 19, 2000.
I'm not offended by Merry Christmas - but to say that our Dec 25th Christmas holiday originated only as a celebration of Christ's birth, and that that date should only belong to Christians - it's just not correct. I don't like to see history rewritten that way.
 
  • #74
PaperDoll said:
Oh good grief, Christmas has been around long before all of us has, and it's been celebrated as Christs' birth.. That is where it originated from. Are we going to rewrite the history of this because people get offended too easily over simple words like "Merry Christmas".. :doh: :doh:
And I've never understood why people are offended by the words "Happy Holidays". Go figure
confused.gif
 
  • #75
luvbeaches said:
I don't feel like anyone is trying to force their religion on me. I've had people say Happy Hanukkah, and that doesn't bother me one little bit. What I am tired of is trying to figure out how to make everyone happy. I'm sick of all the political correctness BS.

Pick your own traditions. No one is trying to force anything down your throat.
Ask my co-worker if she feels Christmas is being shoved down her throat at work. She does.

And she is a Christian who thinks Christmas is a pagan holiday. She has worked at that office for ten years. Every year they send the e-mails around what are we doing for Christmas etc etc.

She wants to know why they won't just leave her out of it.

I don't either. I am the other person in the office that doesn't celebrate Christmas. I don't think they are being culturally sensitive to her.

I think their behavior is offensive.

I am not personally bothered by saying Merry Christmas to folks or chipping in for needy families at Christmas etc etc. But it bothers me for her. At the same time, I have mixed feelings about attending an office Christmas party. I'm aware that I don't want to go. I am uncomfortable with the way its being handled in my office.

Now do some of you folks get it? This is not political correctness. This is poor behavior by an insensitive majority IMO.
 
  • #76
narlacat said:
Guess everyone knows it.

They had to pick one day....

That he was born of a virgin birth is the part that gets me.

That's about as crazy as the whole Adam and Eve trip.
Why would you come on this forum and belittle someone's faith? You're certainly free to think what you want, but to call believer's crazy is really rude.
 
  • #77
narlacat said:
I can't see where Wind said she found it offensive, I found her above post to be quite diplomatic.

As much as I dislike Christmas, I don't mind people saying Merry Christmas to me....or hearing crappy Christmas music whilst shopping.
It just is.
I just get in, do what I have to do and pray for it all to be over lol

Christmas is one big commercial nightmare.
I agree with your whole post, Narla, and especially the line I bolded.
 
  • #78
windovervocalcords said:
Ask my co-worker if she feels Christmas is being shoved down her throat at work. She does.

And she is a Christian who thinks Christmas is a pagan holiday. She has worked at that office for ten years. Every year they send the e-mails around what are we doing for Christmas etc etc.

She wants to know why they won't just leave her out of it.

I don't either. I am the other person in the office that doesn't celebrate Christmas. I don't think they are being culturally sensitive to her.

I think their behavior is offensive.

I am not personally bothered by saying Merry Christmas or chipping in for needy families etc etc. But it bothers me for her.

Now do some of you folks get it? This is not political correctness. This is poor behavior by an insenstive majority IMO.
What is your solution? Is it a simple matter of not including her on the email lists or do you think they should entirely stop the Christmas celebration for fear of offending her?
 
  • #79
Ntegrity said:
Why would you come on this forum and belittle someone's faith? You're certainly free to think what you want, but to call believer's crazy is really rude.
I was thinking that, too, when earlier in this thread I read:

"I don't hear others complaining about Budda (sic) or some other make shift god."


Some take Buddha as seriously as Christians take their God...
 
  • #80
Ntegrity said:
What is your solution? Is it a simple matter of not including her on the email lists or do you think they should entirely stop the Christmas celebration for fear of offending her?
I think they should leave her alone about Christmas as she has asked. She has strong feelings about it due to her Christian faith.

She does not want to be involved in their Christmas projects. She does charitable acts all year round. They give her a hard time about it. This is wrong. This is shoving Christmas traditions down her throat.

It is offensive.

It is very uncomfortable for me too. I feel in the middle.
 
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