It's Christmas once again at Wal-Mart

[csds703]

I'll share a story with you guys.

Seven yrs. ago when I was dating my husband, he was going through his divorce and was staying in the basement of his parents house. I was living in a 1 bedroom apt with my daughter. My daughter and I are Jewish and my husband and his 2 children are Catholic. Well the holidays were approaching and my husband had no place of his own to set up a Christmas tree and spend the day with his girls. I went and picked up a tree and some lights(the wrong ones:blushing: ) and ornaments.
Even though I had never celebrated Christmas in my life except as an observer, I understood the importance that this had to my husband. We now "help" each other to celebrate our different holidays and customs.
The point is, we don't have to have the same beliefs. We just have to respect each others differences.

 

[SadieMae]

I'll share a story with you guys.

Seven yrs. ago when I was dating my husband, he was going through his divorce and was staying in the basement of his parents house. I was living in a 1 bedroom apt with my daughter. My daughter and I are Jewish and my husband and his 2 children are Catholic. Well the holidays were approaching and my husband had no place of his own to set up a Christmas tree and spend the day with his girls. I went and picked up a tree and some lights(the wrong ones:blushing: ) and ornaments.
Even though I had never celebrated Christmas in my life except as an observer, I understood the importance that this had to my husband. We now "help" each other to celebrate our different holidays and customs.
The point is, we don't have to have the same beliefs. We just have to respect each others differences.

Exactly csds...you don't have to believe or participate, but at least be respectful of others honoring their holidays and traditions.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I'll share a story with you guys.

Seven yrs. ago when I was dating my husband, he was going through his divorce and was staying in the basement of his parents house. I was living in a 1 bedroom apt with my daughter. My daughter and I are Jewish and my husband and his 2 children are Catholic. Well the holidays were approaching and my husband had no place of his own to set up a Christmas tree and spend the day with his girls. I went and picked up a tree and some lights(the wrong ones:blushing: ) and ornaments.
Even though I had never celebrated Christmas in my life except as an observer, I understood the importance that this had to my husband. We now "help" each other to celebrate our different holidays and customs.
The point is, we don't have to have the same beliefs. We just have to respect each others differences.

That's a lovely story. Very sweet.

I found this article and I am enclosing the link as food for thought. I hope no one else has the problems at the workplace that Christmas is causing our staff.

"For me, the Christmas problem starts early — at Yom Kippur, which usually falls in September. This is the most important holiday for Jews, but I have never gotten this holiday off from work. I take vacation days to observe Yom Kippur. And I don’t complain about using my vacation days because it is absurd to think everyone should stop working because the Jews have a holiday.

But as workers, Jews have to observe Christmas. For us, it’s a weird day to be off from work. No stores are open. There’s nothing on TV. Most restaurants are closed. It’s a boring day, a good day to be at work. So when Christmas rolls around, many Jews would be happy to work on the 25th and have a more useful day off. But we are forced to take a holiday.

Given the nothingness of Christmas to most Jews, it is absurd how much Christmas cheer that Jews partake in just to fit in at the office.
Jews don’t do Christmas. Muslims don’t do Christmas. Buddhists don’t do Christmas. And no one rants and raves about how religious or nonreligious Christmas is except the Christians. That’s because they feel they have authority over the holiday — it’s theirs.
.....more at link.
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2004/12/05/christmas-at-the-office-is-bad-for-diversity/

 

[SadieMae]

Has anyone gotten this email joke before?

FROM; Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO Everyone
RE Christmas Party
DATE December 1

I'm happy to inform you that the company Christmas Party will take place on
December 23, starting at noon in the banquet room at Luigi's Open Pit Barbecue.
No-host bar, but plenty of eggnog! We'll have a small band playing traditional
carols...feel free to sing along. And don't be surprised if our CEO shows up
dressed as Santa Claus!

__________________________________________________ ___________________
FROM; Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
DATE December 2
RE Christmas Party

In no way was yesterday's memo intended to exclude our Jewish employees. We recognize that Chanukah is an important holiday which often coincides with
Christmas, though unfortunately not this year.

However, from now on, we're calling it our "Holiday Party".
__________________________________________________ _________________
FROM; Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
DATE December 7
RE Holiday Party

What a diverse company we are! I had no idea that December 20 begins the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which forbids eating, drinking and sex during daylight hours. There goes the party! Seriously, we can appreciate how a luncheon this time of year does not accommodate our Muslim employees' beliefs. Perhaps Luigi's can hold off on serving your meal until the end of the party...the daysare so short this time of year...or else package everything for take-home in little foil swans.

__________________________________________________ _________________
FROM; Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
DATE December 8
RE Holiday Party

So December 22 marks the Winter Solstice... Fire regulations at Luigi's prohibit
the burning of sage by our earth-based, Goddess-worshipping employees, but
we'll try to accommodate your shamanic drumming circle during the band's
breaks.

__________________________________________________ __________________

FROM; Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
Date December 9
RE Holiday Party

People, people, nothing sinister was intended by having our CEO dress up like
Santa Claus! Even if the anagram of "Santa" does happen to be "Satan", there is no evil connotation to our own "little man in a red suit". It's a tradition,
folks, like sugar shock at Halloween or family feuds over the Thanksgiving
turkey or broken hearts on Valentine's Day. Could we lighten up?

__________________________________________________ __________________

FROM; Pat Lewis, Human Resources Director
DATE December 10
RE Holiday Party

Vegetarians!?!?!? I've had it with you people!!! We're going to keep this party
at Luigi's Open Pit Barbecue whether you like it or not, so you can sit quietly
at the table farthest from the "grill of death", as you so quaintly put it, and
you'll get your #$%^&*! salad bar, including hydroponic tomatoes...but you know,tomatoes have feelings, too. Tomatoes scream when you slice them...I've heard them scream, I'm hearing them scream right now...!

__________________________________________________ __________________

FROM Teri Bishops, Acting Human Resources Director
DATE December 14
RE Pat Lewis and Holiday Party

I'm sure I speak for all of us in wishing Pat Lewis a speedy recovery from her
stress-related illness and I'll continue to forward your cards to her at the
sanatarium. In the meantime, management has decided to cancel the Holiday
party and give everyone the afternoon of the 23rd off with full pay.

Happy Chanue-Kwanzaa-Solsti-Rama-Mas!

 

[windovervocalcords]

That's the kind of joke that's true but hurts.

 

[SadieMae]

That's the kind of joke that's true but hurts.

Indeed so. You just can't make everyone happy even when you try.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Indeed so. You just can't make everyone happy even when you try.

Which doesn't mean we should stop trying.

A diverse workplace is stronger than a completely conforming one. The country is stronger for being a plurality.

That takes an investment and energy to accomplish both of these goals.

IMO It's worth the effort.

 

[cappuccina]

...Orthodox Christmas and Hannukah..

I have no problem with whatever people want to celebrate...

I have no problem with any PRIVATE venue, such as a store, putting up whatever decorations they want...

I do have problems with PUBLIC VENUES, such as public parks, schools, governmental offices and the like, supporting any particular religious holiday.

I do NOT have a problem with public schools teaching courses or units on comparative religions or holidays, and showing what particular holidays are celebrated 'round the world during a particular season.

So, DK, don't twist around and don't you dare simplify my words. I am not against the celebration of holidays at all. I am, however, for the Consitutionally mandated separation of Church and State, and for respecting everyone, and putting everyone on equal footing in this great nation of ours. In order to do this our Founding Fathers, (and this has been continually upheld through legislation and Court decisions for over two hundred years) MANDATED THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE, to avoid the horrific instances of religious persecution that brought them to this country to begin with, and to avoid A PARTICULAR GROUP, SUCH AS CATHOLICS, FOR EXAMPLE, THINKING THEIR RELIGION WAS NOT ONLY BETTER THAN ALL OTHER RELIGIONS, AND WORSE, TAKING OVER THE GOVERNMENT, thereby turning our democracy into a theocracy...That's the deal here... Got it DK... ??

I'm not against holidays, nor the celebration of them. I am, however, for upholding the wishes of our Founding Fathers, and for honoring and maintaining a conerstone of or government that allows us to have the freedoms that we do... If you do not like this, move to Iran, or Iraq where there are some "balls-out" theocracies going on as we speak...If you do not understand the principle of the separation of Church and State, then I suggest you take a civics course, offered at a local community college or university.

John F. Kennedy's thoughts on the separation of Church and State are very eloquent. He was a Catholic who THOROUGHLY understood why this concept is essential to the functioning of our government and life as we know it in this country. You might want to check out some of his thoughts on this subject.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote--where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference--and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish--where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source--where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials--and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.

For while this year it may be a Catholic against whom the finger of suspicion is pointed, in other years it has been, and may someday be again, a Jew--or a Quaker--or a Unitarian--or a Baptist. It was Virginia's harassment of Baptist preachers, for example, that helped lead to Jefferson's statute of religious freedom. Today I may be the victim--but tomorrow it may be you--until the whole fabric of our harmonious society is ripped at a time of great national peril. Finally, I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end--where all men and all churches are treated as equal--where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice--where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind--and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their works in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/40/story_4080_1.html

 

[Ntegrity]

Do you live in the US?

How can you say Christians are not allowed to celebrate Christmas in the US?. That is ridiculous. Last time I looked this was not a right that needed defending.

Christmas is EVERYWHERE from the beginning of November until January. Christmas dominates TV, radio and every retail outlet on the planet.

Churches and charities are busy as elves.

I do not see the oppression of Christians unless it is the Christians who believe the holiday is pagan, as my co-worker does. And in her case, SHE is the oppressed.

Yes, I do live in the U.S. and have seen a drastic change in the past 15 or so years.

For Christians, Christmas is about the birth of Christ, and in many venues that aspect of the holiday certainly is oppressed. Santa Claus is everywhere. But the mention of Jesus' name in connection with the holiday must be whispered to keep from offending someone. I believe there is tolerance toward every other religion except Christianity in this country. The pendulum has swung too far and needs to find the center.

 

[cappuccina]

...ahhh, this is key, this is the sentence I was looking for from this speech...

"...where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials..."

Ntegrity, you flunked the test...What did I just say....As far as I am concerned...Every private store in the nation can have Chrismas decorations coming out of their proverbial asses.... Every private gas station, retaurant, PRIVATE VENUE... Thousands and thousands of places...

You just cannot proselytize for Christmas or any other religious holiday, in a public venue...like a public park, school, or government building...

What are you not understanding about this....It's to say that you "have to whisper about Christmas"... You just can't put up a sign that says "Jesus loves you" in a courthouse...

 

[CyberLaw]

Wow, Cappuccina: FANTASTIC post, really great. Kudos to you.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Yes, I do live in the U.S. and have seen a drastic change in the past 15 or so years.

For Christians, Christmas is about the birth of Christ, and in many venues that aspect of the holiday certainly is oppressed. Santa Claus is everywhere. But the mention of Jesus' name in connection with the holiday must be whispered to keep from offending someone. I believe there is tolerance toward every other religion except Christianity in this country. The pendulum has swung too far and needs to find the center.

I agree with you in one way and disagree with your view in another.

Things have changed in the past 15-20 years or so. IMO the reason why is study Pat Robertson's trip. It is his propaganda campaign that Christians are oppressed. Look to his influence on Christianity and how he manipulates the discussion. Study the tactics of the Christian Coalition and Focus on the Family.

Christians are more than tolerated. They are the dominate faith group in the US by virtue of sheer numbers. They are not "oppressed".

Some Christians choose to push the domination of their faith further into any and all aspects of community, public and political life where it does not belong.

People of other faiths or no faiths naturally object to that. The pendulum has swung into some organized movements for theocracy and away from religious freedom and plurality.

The center if you will, is in practicing patience and level headedness in our own minds and having an honest dialogue with people who disagree with us.

 

[narlacat]

Why would you come on this forum and belittle someone's faith? You're certainly free to think what you want, but to call believer's crazy is really rude.

<<I think what Narla said was she thinks the idea of virgin birth is crazy to her>>

Yep, that's what I meant.
It's crazy to me and like you say I'm free to think what I want.

<<We're talking about the need to be sensitive to other people's feelings and beliefs.>>

This is a discussion board, I didn't mean to intentionally hurt anyone's feelings....we are talking about CHRISTmas here, Christ is bound to come up!
I not only question the when of his birth, I question the how-no biggie- why would my little old opinion upset you so much?

 

[narlacat]

It's people like you and Linas and other who have taken it beyond this, though, to where it has become Freedom FROM Religion instead of Freedom OF Religion, and even some Federal Judges have called these efforts "tiresome" because they are so far reaching. We have a right to express our beliefs in the public arena, but it's hard to sympathise with your point of view when some people like Linas cannot even stand to be told Merry Christmas or God Bless You. That's intolerance every bit as much as what believers are being accused of. Hide it all you want, but that attitide is very much intolerant. I, like others have said, am not offended when someone wishes me Happy Hannukah. That makes us far more tolerant of others beliefs, now doesn't it. Now, don't go around stealing thebaby Jesus from our manger scenes or I'll have to smite ya! :slap:

DK
You belong to the most intolerant religion/church in the Western world, and you have the gall to turn around and call someone else intolerant?
Hey Kettle, this is the pot-you're black

 

[Ntegrity]

This is a discussion board, I didn't mean to intentionally hurt anyone's feelings....we are talking about CHRISTmas here, Christ is bound to come up!
I not only question the when of his birth, I question the how-no biggie- why would my little old opinion upset you so much?

Why do you think I was upset? I stated my opinion that mocking a person's religious beliefs was rude. That's all. No upset here. I didn't attack you or say anything bad to you. :waitasec:

 

[narlacat]

Why do you think I was upset? I stated my opinion that mocking a person's religious beliefs was rude. That's all. No upset here. I didn't attack you or say anything bad to you. :waitasec:

Okay, no worries, sorry I thought I did.

No, you didn't.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Nope, it's the Jews and the Athiests who caused this anti-Christmas mess I just betcha, so they are the whiniest! And the gays, too! (Is this really a road you wanna go down?)

This is a fascist anti-semitic homophobic statement if ever I heard one. Are you not embarassed?

And we are supposed to support your Christmas spirit?

 

[narlacat]

Hey there Ms Cat......are you going to jump to the ceiling when you open the box I have ready for ya'......the outside has.......Santa......and ....a Tree.....and
Holiday Wishes..... Ah.......but there is Spirit in the Box and I know you will
be happy. The message of Christmas is to bring out "happiness" and "memories" and I hope everyones holidays do that for them too. Whatever they might be........any and all of celebrated holidays.
Oh My......I had to add this......I have the giggles about it......
I want to visit you at Christmas time, and do that humming and singing I do in the stores.....because you called the music crappy LOLOLOL.(would we be laughing or what).. So funny, because hubby and I love to go where the music is blasting, and the carolers are singing with bugles behind them....Lehigh Mall is great for that.......come on over!!!!
we just talked about this with friends recently.

LOL Sunday, I can't highlight your post to show you the parts I found funny...so let's just say I found it all funny!
Like I said, Christmas is different for you guys, when you're sweltering in 40 degree heat, it's hard to 'enjoy' Christmas to the extent you do...
I bet I would be singing along with you and hubby if I spent Christmas with you guys over there, it would have a whole different feel to it..
I actually don't mind some of the carol's, that was just my mood yesterday coming out in my posts lol...still, I can only handle so much cheery Christmas music, that is true..

Oh and you shouldn't have, you are naughty- I am going to wait a bit longer to send my card, I seem to have more faith in the mail system than you do lol

 

[windovervocalcords]

I couldn't believe he said that.
I chose to ignore it.

I don't believe in ignoring that level of blatant intolerance. IMO that post reflects a hostility to gays, atheists and Jews that borders on hate speech.