Jahi’s family wants her declared 'alive again’

[K_Z]

Who would ask NW to consent to more studies? Not the court, they don't have anything else to prove.

You're right-- and Dr. Fisher said as much. However, if the petition is resubmitted as a new request, AND if the court finds that they have jurisdiction, then if they want to pursue the "alive again" agenda, the Judge would have to ask NW to make Jahi's body available to court appointed, impartial experts (not of her choosing).

And welcome to Websleuths, Lippy!

Dolan expected to be told in court that if he wanted to try and prove his case, he was going to have to submit the body to all the approved tests by independent examiners. So to head off this type of request, he withdrew the petition entirely and was then able to publicly pin the blame elsewhere.

You are so right. And it seems like EVERY single news outlet that has reported on this has used the term "postponed", not "withdrawn". Doland and NW are BOTH using the term "postponed" in interviews, and NW used that term on her recent FB long post. The memorandum/ petition/ hearing request, or whatever you want to call it, has not been "continued"-- it's withdrawn, as you pointed out. So there is no timetable at all for any more action on it, until or unless Dolan and NW decide to re-file it. They could completely re-write it, use new experts, or none at all, or the same ones, etc. Requesting to withdraw the request, and then talking it up all over as "postponed" due to the mean old "sandbagging" was an intentionally manipulative move, IMO.

Just like Dolan whining about wanting to broker a roundtable discussion between his experts and Fisher, or other court appointed experts. There will never be any collaboration *ordered* by the courts between court appointed experts, and Dolan's experts. Nor would/ could court appointed independent experts even want to "collaborate" in their court appointed role with plaintiff's experts! And IMO, Dolan absolutely knows that, IMO. It's another "poor me, I'm trying so hard to cooperate" sham. IMO. Another way for him to save face, while appearing to working hard to cooperate, AND stay in the media.

(But he gave himself at least a 4 week vacation from commenting any further.)

 

[SwampMama]

There was also a fair amount of political race-baiting going on, implying that the hospital messed up because they didn't care about the life of a black child or the feelings of a grieving black family. And that is so ridiculous, because OAKLAND is heavily African American and that hospital has a very fine reputation and has cared for and cured and saved thousands of young black children.

That offended me along with the bully tactics in taking over the waiting room and protesting which greatly inconvenienced and disturbed other patients with very sick or dying children. Then there was the posting of the staffers telephone # and urging people to call him and tell him off, busting in on the school board meeting to get Jahi a diploma, etc.

 

[MNSuz]

Does the mom truly believe that her daughter is alive? After all this time and in the face of medical fact? Or will a future lawsuit yield potentially more money with the child's body in its present state of suspended animation?

 

[MyBelle]

IF Jahi were now in a PVS state then her mother would surely consent to having her examined by fully qualified, reputable and respected experts. That would settle the matter so that Jahi's status would be undeniable. But Jahi's mom prefers to stick with experts of dubious backgrounds, views, and experience ( which are likely the only ones who will support her point of view and only because that view supports their agenda.)

Poor Jahi is dead and can't even rest in peace because she is being used as a prop to "prove" other people's agendas. Her mom is out to prove CHO and the real experts wrong. She will never admit that Jahi is dead and has been dead. Dolan uses Jahi for publicity and to bring attention to his proposition which would significantly increase his income. The same goes for the rest of the ones who are supporting the theory that Jahi is "alive". they have an agenda to promote, they want the publicity and it brings attention and income to their various publications/websites/etc.

Then there is the matter of the uneducated people who are preyed upon for donations to this lost cause. They are fed false information to prop up false hopes and many because of their great faith or lack of understanding of what brain dead means, are quite gullible to the realities of the situation.

BBM. The Chairman of the Neuro/Surg. Dept. at Rugers is qualified and his resume reflects expert qualifications.
http://www.thaddeuspope.com/images/McMath_Linked_File.pdf

Any physician is on a ethically slippery slope as to what they can do to a body that has been declared dead.

 

[SeekingJana]

This case of poor little Jahi and her death just gets sadder and sadder as time goes by. The child deserves to be buried decently and mourned respectfully. I am sad for the child's remains, but not for anyone else in this continuing mama drama.

 

[Lippy]

Does the mom truly believe that her daughter is alive? After all this time and in the face of medical fact? Or will a future lawsuit yield potentially more money with the child's body in its present state of suspended animation?

McMath's mother, Nailah Winkfield, has said her Christian beliefs require her to remain open to the possibility that God will perform a miracle and restore her daughter to health.

She is also aware that in her daughters present state (dead) , the payout on a wrongful death lawsuit (if they prevail) will only be "chump change". Jahi would have to be "declared alive" to have a shot at a huge settlement if CHO was found to be negligent.

 

[Nore]

Why didn't Jahi's brain liquefy completely as is expected in brain death patients? Why do parts of her brain still have form? Even laymen such as myself can see that the brain has atrophied and shrunk, we can see that parts are missing. I assume that the brain is slowly deteriorating, not healing. Why has this brain deteriorated more slowly than it should have?

-------------
I would say her brain has not liquefied completely because The decomp is slowed down. Blood now flows in the area but to no good as area (brain) is dead. That is what we were told (not word for word) by experts. Her family must accept the fact their daughter is gone. Nothing will ever be the same. Life as they knew it is gone. Allow the child peace. This is so hard to accept. Enough to make one lose their mind, but accept it, forget money and suing and all. Something went wrong with the girls body . Give her peace. How can they do this to their child!!

 

[La Louve]

McMath's mother, Nailah Winkfield, has said her Christian beliefs require her to remain open to the possibility that God will perform a miracle and restore her daughter to health.

She is also aware that in her daughters present state (dead) , the payout on a wrongful death lawsuit (if they prevail) will only be "chump change". Jahi would have to be "declared alive" to have a shot at a huge settlement if CHO was found to be negligent.

BBM

I've been debating whether to post this or not, but here goes. If a miracle were to truly happen, I would think it would involve a change in Jahi's condition that no one could deny. IOW anyone testing her, not just those handpicked by Dolan, would come to the conclusion that Jahi was truly alive.

 

[MyBelle]

BBM

I've been debating whether to post this or not, but here goes. If a miracle were to truly happen, I would think it would involve a change in Jahi's condition that no one could deny. IOW anyone testing her, not just those handpicked by Dolan, would come to the conclusion that Jahi was truly alive.

I think that is Dolan's point in his letter to the Judge. The Court's expert, Dr. Fisher, is now biased because he's already reached a conclusion and insists Dolan's board-certified experts don't know the criteria used in brain death--an accusation that probably comes as quite a surprise to Dr. Shewmon, and Dr. Prestigiacomo and the AMA.

The only independent expert that matters at this point is the county coroner.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

McMath's mother, Nailah Winkfield, has said her Christian beliefs require her to remain open to the possibility that God will perform a miracle and restore her daughter to health.

She is also aware that in her daughters present state (dead) , the payout on a wrongful death lawsuit (if they prevail) will only be "chump change". Jahi would have to be "declared alive" to have a shot at a huge settlement if CHO was found to be negligent.

I don't believe that is correct. It would not be chump change either way. Perhaps a legal expert can better explain but I think in California, there would be compensatory damages and punitive damages awarded if they won. The compensatory damages are for real things such as her care. The Proposition on the ballot deals with the cap on punitive damages which is now $250,000. Hardly to be considered chump change by anyone. And the hospital and Jahi's family can settle at any time.



JMO

 

[Frigga]

I think that is Dolan's point in his letter to the Judge. The Court's expert, Dr. Fisher, is now biased because he's already reached a conclusion and insists Dolan's board-certified experts don't know the criteria used in brain death--an accusation that probably comes as quite a surprise to Dr. Shewmon, and Dr. Prestigiacomo and the AMA.

The only independent expert that matters at this point is the county coroner.


JMO

So... bring someone else in... a different group of experts. What's the big deal? If what Dolan and the family is claiming is true, her miracle recovery should be transparent. This is not something you keep in some tight inner sanctum with a select few. I'm sure there are many doctors and specialists who would be willing and would be considered impartial, why not make Jahi available to them? This part I don't get, at all, which makes the whole thing look disingenuous- at best.

 

[Tricia]

If you type in a website and **** come up that means we have blocked it. Please do not go on to explain the name of the website.

Thank you.

 

[TJL]

There's more filings up on Alameda County courthouse records.

https://publicrecords.alameda.courts.ca.gov/PRS/Case/CaseDetails/UlAxMzcwNzU5OA==



The single page from 10/9/2014 (titled: "Motion to continue - dropped") is this (yep, I donated another dollar to the great state of California to get it):



So in essence, Dolan withdraws his petition to have the court reconsider Jahi's death. He does this at the 11th hour (the night before) prior to the initial hearing, and blames it on CHO. He issues a press release stating the case has been postponed (which we all know really means for an indefinite amount of time, since he withdrew the petition entirely) while requesting a 4-week continuance.

With this newest filing from 10-09-2014, it appears he completely withdrew his request for even the continuance, the very next morning (the morning the court appearance was initially set for).

Phew this man is a doozy. Frivolously file court paperwork, then withdraw it at the last minute while issuing press releases blaming other people. And then when nobody is looking (the media), withdraw further court paperwork and requests that you talked about at your press conference.

It certainly didn't take long for him to completely abandon his request for 4 more weeks that he talked about in his grandstanding press release the night before the court hearing.

Edit: I got even more curious and bought the other $1 document (titled: "Civil law and motion hearing commenced and completed"). It just reconfirms that they did, in fact, have a very brief hearing at the court house on 9-Oct-2014, and Dolan completely dropped the case entirely. No postponement, no continuance. Dropped, and request to drop was approved by Grillo, entered into minutes yesterday.

 

[MyBelle]

There's more filings up on Alameda County courthouse records.

https://publicrecords.alameda.courts.ca.gov/PRS/Case/CaseDetails/UlAxMzcwNzU5OA==

View attachment 61342

The single page from 10/9/2014 (titled: "Motion to continue - dropped") is this (yep, I donated another dollar to the great state of California to get it):

View attachment 61343

So in essence, Dolan withdraws his petition to have the court reconsider Jahi's death. He does this at the 11th hour (the night before) prior to the initial hearing, and blames it on CHO. He issues a press release stating the case has been postponed (which we all know really means for an indefinite amount of time, since he withdrew the petition entirely) while requesting a 4-week continuance.

With this newest filing from 10-09-2014, it appears he completely withdrew his request for even the continuance, the very next morning (the morning the court appearance was initially set for).

Phew this man is a doozy. Frivolously file court paperwork, then withdraw it at the last minute while issuing press releases blaming other people. And then when nobody is looking (the media), withdraw further court paperwork and requests that you talked about at your press conference.

It certainly didn't take long for him to completely abandon his request for 4 more weeks that he talked about in his grandstanding press release the night before the court hearing.

Edit: I got even more curious and bought the other $1 document (titled: "Civil law and motion hearing commenced and completed"). It just reconfirms that they did, in fact, have a very brief hearing at the court house on 9-Oct-2014, and Dolan completely dropped the case entirely. No postponement, no continuance. Dropped, and request to drop was approved by Grillo, entered into minutes yesterday.

View attachment 61344

Nowhere on the documents you posted is there any "blame" lodged against CHO. In fact, it says on the Order that the matter was heard and argued and the Judge agreed. Apparently, the Judge's concerns about jurisdiction were resolved in the court hearing and Dolan was satisfied and that is why Dolan asked that it be dropped.

Sounds more like the Judge agreed with Dolan that it is an issue to be resolved in the medical community, not in a courtroom. The medical community such as the AMA set the medical brain death criteria, not the Court.

JMO

 

[al66pine]

....The only independent expert that matters at this point is the county coroner. ....JMO

bbm sbm

Respectfully disagreeing w ^this part of post.^

As I understand it, Co Coroner &/or Medical Examiner autopsy function focuses on determining cause & manner of death, not if dead.

Although posts on Jahi's threads cited anecdotes about bodies in hosp. or county morgues 'coming back to life' (talking, hopping off gurney, etc)
but I've not read about any situations where, after issuing a Death Cert, a coroner or ME performed tests to determine if they are alive.

Does coroner or ME office have med equipment to conduct med tests that Dr Fisher did in Dec? IDK, but IDTS.

jm2cts.

 

[MyBelle]

So... bring someone else in... a different group of experts. What's the big deal? If what Dolan and the family is claiming is true, her miracle recovery should be transparent. This is not something you keep in some tight inner sanctum with a select few. I'm sure there are many doctors and specialists who would be willing and would be considered impartial, why not make Jahi available to them? This part I don't get, at all, which makes the whole thing look disingenuous- at best.

I've not seen any physician state that Jahi has made a miraculous recovery. All the declarations make it clear she has suffered severe brain damage. I have no clue about why one set of medical brain death criteria is different from another. It's up to the AMA and the American Academy of Pediatrics and any other group involved in establishing the criteria to sort it out.

JMO

 

[TJL]

Nowhere on the documents you posted is there any "blame" lodged against CHO.

It was in his press release from Oct 8th, 2014, which I kindly referred to. I gave you the reference for my comment. Do we really need to go around in circles about common knowledge? <modsnip> We've all read his press release from 8-Oct-2014 https://www.dropbox.com/s/nacvrwtpa5w6jqv/McMath_Linked_File.pdf?dl=0 (Though I suspect maybe you have not, since you were/are unaware that Dolan blamed CHO for his needing to "postpone" the ordeal. Which we now can fully verify he completely dropped the case entirely, as previously suspected.)

Edit: he also tweeted his placing of blame on CHO -which again, is common knowledge because it has been discussed here and screenshots of the tweet were posted here. <modsnip>

 

[MyBelle]

bbm sbm

Respectfully disagreeing w ^this part of post.^

As I understand it, Co Coroner &/or Medical Examiner autopsy function focuses on determining cause & manner of death, not if dead.

Although posts on Jahi's threads cited anecdotes about bodies in hosp. or county morgues 'coming back to life' (talking, hopping off gurney, etc)
but I've not read about any situations where, after issuing a Death Cert, a coroner or ME performed tests to determine if they are alive.

Does coroner or ME office have med equipment to conduct med tests that Dr Fisher did in Dec? IDK, but IDTS.

jm2cts.

iirc, as part of the settlement agreement, the hospital released Jahi's body to the County Coroner and Jahi's body must be returned to the Coroner.

The Coroner most certainly has the ability to detect whether a body meets the criteria of brain death. He also has the ability to analyze test results.

JMO

 

[TJL]

Thanks for going the extra mile and getting the proof of what we all figured was going on all along. This was just a publicity grab to get back into the news and garner publicity. Dolan needed the attention on his proposition and the family needs to "get them dollars up" and find new suckers to donate to the non-existent cause.

It certainly begs the question: Where's the press release, Mr. Dolan, explaining why you have voluntarily withdrawn not only the initial petition to have the case heard, but also requested (and received) a dismissal for the continuance you discussed in your 8-Oct-2014 press release? If you needed 4 more weeks to properly prepare your case you say you needed a postponement or continuance for, what happened in the 12 hours between press release and court appearance that made you change your mind?

I think we all know the answers to these questions, which are as you suggested: it was just a publicity stunt all along, and the plan was never really to get any sort of factual review.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I've not seen any physician state that Jahi has made a miraculous recovery. All the declarations make it clear she has suffered severe brain damage. I have no clue about why one set of medical brain death criteria is different from another. It's up to the AMA and the American Academy of Pediatrics and any other group involved in establishing the criteria to sort it out.

JMO

The AMA has nothing to do with anything; most doctors don't even belong to it.