Japan: 9.0 Earthquake-Tsunami-Nuclear Reactor Developments #1

[Daisyjane]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12/japan-quake-nuclear-cooling-idUSLHE7EB02D20110312

The emergency cooling system is no longer functioning at the No.3 reactor at Tokyo Electric Power Co's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power facility, requiring the facility to urgently secure a means to supply water to the reactor, an official of the Japan Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency told a news conference. On Saturday, an explosion blew off the roof and upper walls of the building housing the facility's No. 1 reactor, stirring alarm over a possible major radiation release, although the government later said the explosion had not affected the reactor's core vessel and that only a small amount of radiation had been released. The nuclear safety agency official said there was a possibility that at least nine individuals had been exposed to radiation, according to information gathered from municipal governments and other sources.

 

[peeples]

Nice to see people helping to care for one another


Janie Eudy of Pineville, Louisiana, told CNN that her husband, Danny Joe, was on the move south Saturday. He and other workers had been inside the Fukushima Daini nuclear plant when the quake struck.

She said he and others, driving rental cars, went to a nearby town in hopes of finding a hotel room, but the town was gone. They continue heading south trying to find shelter and food, Eudy said. Her husband told her a Japanese man was able to find enough food to make soup for 40 people on Friday.

 

[not_my_kids]

Food/fuel shortages

"Nicky Washida scoured her central Tokyo neighborhood looking for food Saturday, but was unsuccessful."
"Gas sales were being limited to 20 liters (5.3 gallons) per car, Powell said."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.quake.scene/index.html?hpt=T1

Thanks for finding that. Although it confirms rationing, I guess 20 L is better that 10 L for those that are trying to get out by car.
There is limited rail service restored in some parts of the country.

 

[Quiche]

Okay, this guy is a little doomsdayee..

http://www.fox40.com/ktxl-chernobyl...rnobyl-in-the-making-20110312,0,1051023.story

 

[peeples]

I haven't heard any reports of looting (not that there is much left to loot)..... are they just more civilized than other countries????

 

[Quiche]

I haven't heard any reports of looting (not that there is much left to loot)..... are they just more civilized than other countries????

Wow, true! Maybe they just don't want to show it? Huh.

 

[not_my_kids]

CNN says that much of Sendai is actually untouched, and that they are moving to inland areas looking for more supplies (although, as reports from Tokyo are showing, that won't help much). Temps tonight are expected to go below zero. Sleet and rain are possible. That will help with the fires, but make the mudslides and the exposure risks that much higher.

 

[not_my_kids]

I THINK they just said that they are pouring gas into the coolant system, trying to reduce nuerons and avert that nuclear disaster. The problem, as I heard it, was that this system is menat for water, not gasoline.
Call me stupid, but when there has already been one explosion, is gasoline really the safest option they can have at this time.

The good news is that an international security expert said that even though the meltdown is possible, he does not see it as highly probable. That much I did hear.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I haven't heard any reports of looting (not that there is much left to loot)..... are they just more civilized than other countries????

I kidna think the people in affected areas are strictly in survival mode. Its not looting to dig through the rubble of a supermarket for diapers or water. Plus, if you do loot - where in the hello are you going to take your "loot" to?

But I do bet in the following days - once aid starts getting in - then looting will pick up.

Right now - its strictly survival.

 

[not_my_kids]

686 confirmed dead. 662 reported missing.
Both numbers expected to rise.

Nationwide, they are seeing no bread, no water, no flashlights. And that is in highly populated areas like Tokyo. In outlying areas they suspect that there is nothing left, even in areas that did survive structurally.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

On top of aftershocks, that could continue for months, there have been 51 mudslides.
CNN experts saying that they can't fully predict, and that this might not have even been the "big one". It is possible that there could be worse, and what we have seen are foreshocks, as opposed to the big quake and then some aftershocks.

I don't even want to consider that.

I don't even want to let my mind go there.

 

[Nova]

I haven't heard any reports of looting (not that there is much left to loot)..... are they just more civilized than other countries????

Yes. Speaking in broad terms, Japanese culture emphasizes cooperation over individual rights. (Again, please note the broad terms. The Japanese do have a constitution and various individual rights are guaranteed; in fact, their bill of rights (written by Americans) is longer than ours.) This is why our occupation of the islands went so smoothly after WWII: once the Emperor said, "The war is over and Japan has been defeated," the Japanese people cooperated with the conqueror (us) almost without exception.

Traditionally, Japanese culture teaches the avoidance of shame at almost all costs, which tends to keep people in line in public so as to avoid behavior that will bring shame.

I thought Chileans in devastated areas were right to break into grocery stores after last year's quake and tsunami in Chile. Even knowing what I know of Japanese history, I'm amazed the Japanese haven't done the same (so far). At least I assume they haven't been doing so, since I keep hearing reports that grocery stores are "closed" (not emptied by looters).

ETA: Most Californians think our state is fairly crowded. Yet we have 38 million people in an area about the same size as Japan: the Japanese have 125 million. They don't do that without a lot of cooperation.

 

[Herding Cats]

Okay, this guy is a little doomsdayee..

http://www.fox40.com/ktxl-chernobyl...rnobyl-in-the-making-20110312,0,1051023.story

I just have to say that Michio is a really, really smart guy...very interesting. I'd've loved to have my physics lectures from him; the guy I had was good, but this guy is really, really phenomenal.

As for him being a doomcrier, I don't have sound, so I can't say anything. But I have liked this guy for years - YEARS - and have found him fairly reputable and reasonable in the past. He's usually on debunking things, so I take what he says seriously, kwim?

Then again, I can't hear him atm, so...

Just thought I'd share that.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Nova]

Despite what I said above, I should add that there is a shock effect to an earthquake that can keep everyday crime to a minimum. Despite the 60-odd people killed in L.A.'s 1993 Northridge quake, the death rate for that week went down because the murder rate plummeted in the aftermath of the quake.

Regardless of cultural and shock effects, unless relief efforts are VERY successful, we should expect to see social order begin to break down in some places as more time passes.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Okay, this guy is a little doomsdayee..

http://www.fox40.com/ktxl-chernobyl...rnobyl-in-the-making-20110312,0,1051023.story

I have watched this guy on tv and even follow him on twitter and I can not believe he came out and said such inflammatory and nonsense statements. I have lost all respect for him and will always doubt his wisdom in the future.

Let me deal with his first statement: "This could be a Chernobyl in the making."

This could never be a Chernobyl for the simple reason it is a different type of reactor then Chernobyl. Fukushima Dai-ichi reactors are boiling water reactors or BWR's. Chernobyl was a graphite moderated reactor. Graphite is about impossible to put out once it starts burning.

It was the burning of this graphite at Chernobyl that caused smoke and soot particles to carry the radiation thousands of miles. There was no containment vessel at the Chernobyl reactor either.

What we are seeing in Japan is a meltdown of some degree, it appears the control rods have melted releasing the radiation, a hydrogen build up happened from the heat and that hydrogen blew up causing a dust cloud that carried the radiation into the surrounding area.

With the control rods gone and the radioactive material sitting in the containment vessel they have to cool it and neutralize it. They are using boron and sea water to do that now.

Since there is no graphite to burn and spread radiation for thousands of miles like Chernobyl, and the Fukushima Dai-ichi reactor has a containment vessel that Chernobyl never had no matter what happens this could not be a Chernobyl like incident.

http://factspluslogic.com/articles/54/a-chernobyl-type-accident-cannot-occur-in-the-us

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_I_Nuclear_Power_Plant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...r-plant-last-ditch-effort-to-prevent-meltdown

And it would be the containment structure that would be entombed — hopefully with any radioactive material still inside. In theory, NPR's Science Desk tells us, if there were a meltdown that destroyed the steel and ceramic around the fuel rods, the containment structure would still be able to prevent any material from being released into the environment. That was not what happened during the Chernobyl disaster because there was no such containment structure at that Soviet-era plant. At Three Mile Island in Pennsylvania, the containment structure prevented a disaster when part of the core melted during a 1979 accident.

 

[Quiche]

Yeah, he is bucking the trend by citing Chernobyl... that's for sure.

 

[Nova]

CNN says that much of Sendai is actually untouched, and that they are moving to inland areas looking for more supplies (although, as reports from Tokyo are showing, that won't help much). Temps tonight are expected to go below zero. Sleet and rain are possible. That will help with the fires, but make the mudslides and the exposure risks that much higher.

For the benefit of Americans, I believe that is "below zero" Centigrade, or below 32 degrees Farenheit. Last night's low was about 30 per CNN. Still plenty cold enough to produce exposure problems.

As I watched CNN last night, their announcers were very critical that Japanese authorities weren't evacuating a wider range around the affected nuclear plants. And I thought, "Right. People have no food, water or gasoline. Roads and railroads are out of commission. Let's tell a million people to evacuate suddenly-on foot, probably--in the middle of the night in 30-degree weather! Only one detail: tell them to evacuate to WHERE?"

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Yeah, he is bucking the trend by citing Chernobyl... that's for sure.

They are using Boric Acid and sea water to stop the nuclear reaction. I wonder if it was the boric acid Hillary Clinton was talking about when she said the Air Force delivered coolant to the reactor? If that is the case they knew this was going earlier then when the warnings went out. The military denied it.

It will be very interesting to see how the story unfolds.

 

[Quiche]

Releasing pressure from #3

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

 

[peeples]

Melt down underway at 1 of the reactors... just read live on CNN