Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[FacelessPodcast]

This probably can't be answered, but is there any chance the killer tried to get into other houses, maybe even An's house, and the Miyazawa's were just unlucky that he managed to get into theirs?

I've also been looking at the pictures of the house. Am I misinterpreting the images, or is the driveway/garage kind of in a pit that sits lower than the rest of the house? I ask because to me it looks like the balcony is higher, and possibly harder to reach, than it appears to be at first glance.

If the killer had climbed onto the car you would think there would be some evidence of that, but I'm not sure the TMPD has ever said anything about it? There are some objects near the garage which could have been used as a step, but it's hard to tell how solid they would be.

I've made this quick scribble to show what I mean about the garage "pit" being lower compared to the front door:

View attachment 488488

No, this is pretty accurate. The balcony would be far easier to reach, even without the car, than the bathroom window, put it that way. And as for if he tried to get into any of the other houses, that's a good question. I've never heard a single thing on that subject. If I were to guess, I would assume the killer had at least shown interest in entering other homes before. But whether he's acted on it or not, no clue.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Do the police there know your thoughts on this POI? Just curious.

What can we do to help you get funding? I volunteer to help with anything I can do!

As it stands, they do not.

And you're very kind, @Frankie Hellis ! The necessary budget for this podcast would be pretty huge so here's hoping one of the big platforms steps in with an offer soon. Otherwise, I'm going to need the world's biggest couch to search under for lost pennies...

 

[FacelessPodcast]

The strip in front of their house would be my guess. Maybe not directly in front, but on that strip. People here have a tendency to really dislike “rule breakers”, and someone parking so close to their house would definitely rub Mikio and Yasuko the wrong way especially if they’ve been having trouble with people in the surroundings and loud noises etc. It wouldn’t make sense why the car doesn’t just go to a quick car park a few minutes away. They’d be unhappy about that.
As for that strip being used for parking the same night of the murders for the getaway, I’m not sure… a car starting up and driving away so close to the other houses at the earliest 1:20am, after sitting there for a good few hours already? The risk of it being noticed is so high. I can’t really think where it would be.

Re: the podcast platform, glad to help in any way if possible and to contact with a review about Faceless as I’m sure most folk here would too if it helps get the next step going.

You're very kind @Incoherent! When the time comes, as many reviews as possible will obviously help. As for funding, hopefully one of the platforms will put that up as I say. But I'm not beyond rattling the coin jar if they don't!

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

No, this is pretty accurate. The balcony would be far easier to reach, even without the car, than the bathroom window, put it that way. And as for if he tried to get into any of the other houses, that's a good question. I've never heard a single thing on that subject. If I were to guess, I would assume the killer had at least shown interest in entering other homes before. But whether he's acted on it or not, no clue.

Easier seems to be a very relative thing in this case. Other than being let in through the front door, none of the potential entry points appear to be easy.

And that confuses me, because random intruders tend to choose easy targets. I still think the location of the house would make it a target, but ignoring that, the layout of the house appears to make it quite a difficult house to gain access to. It takes effort to get into this house. Without a specific reason for making that effort, it seems like it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

 

[fridaybaker]

Easier seems to be a very relative thing in this case. Other than being let in through the front door, none of the potential entry points appear to be easy.

And that confuses me, because random intruders tend to choose easy targets. I still think the location of the house would make it a target, but ignoring that, the layout of the house appears to make it quite a difficult house to gain access to. It takes effort to get into this house. Without a specific reason for making that effort, it seems like it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

I think this is an interesting point. I can't say for certain about the balcony/Rei's room, because I'm terrible at judging distances, but I can certainly see how the bathroom window wouldn't be easy. If it's as you say, and the balcony entry isn't easy either, that further strengthens the argument that the Miyazawas were targeted specifically.

 

[fridaybaker]

Nic, when you say "Universal" offered funds to run the DNA, who do you mean? The only "Universal" I can think of is Universal Studios. Is that it? If so, I think I can understand Ann Irie's refusal. If she feels like she's been burned by press, journos, etc., I'd have to think she'd be very fearful of a company so large and powerful. I'd shut down at the first mention of it. Sad, though, of course.

 

[Incoherent]

I think this is an interesting point. I can't say for certain about the balcony/Rei's room, because I'm terrible at judging distances, but I can certainly see how the bathroom window wouldn't be easy. If it's as you say, and the balcony entry isn't easy either, that further strengthens the argument that the Miyazawas were targeted specifically.

I didn’t think of estimating height measurements when I was there last weekend, but I can tell you that the house is not as big as it appears to be.

In Faceless, An Irie specifically says that she wants the public to understand and empathise with how cramped and small the house is and that the family is their best in such a small space.

The bathroom window from the floor is 3.3 metres high as shown in the Fuji TV re-creation here where it says 窓までの高さ:約3.3m (translation: the height to the window is about 3.3 metres)

The distance from the ground to Rei’s balcony is not high at all.

I believe in the house description it describes Rei’s room as 2中階 which literally means the “second middle floor” - it isn’t the first floor or the second, it is in the middle of them. The second floor is the living room. So like I say, the balcony isn’t high at all. Access would not be difficult for most people.

 

[Incoherent]

This probably can't be answered, but is there any chance the killer tried to get into other houses, maybe even An's house, and the Miyazawa's were just unlucky that he managed to get into theirs?

I've also been looking at the pictures of the house. Am I misinterpreting the images, or is the driveway/garage kind of in a pit that sits lower than the rest of the house? I ask because to me it looks like the balcony is higher, and possibly harder to reach, than it appears to be at first glance.

If the killer had climbed onto the car you would think there would be some evidence of that, but I'm not sure the TMPD has ever said anything about it? There are some objects near the garage which could have been used as a step, but it's hard to tell how solid they would be.

I've made this quick scribble to show what I mean about the garage "pit" being lower compared to the front door:

View attachment 488488

The balcony is lower as it is not on the same level as the as living room, which is the second floor.

See here:

The windows above the door is the living room - second floor.
Look at the balcony to the left, the height of it is lower than even the front door - it is the “second middle floor”. Not difficult at all to get up on to.

 

[lilykaluva]

As it stands, they do not.

And you're very kind, @Frankie Hellis ! The necessary budget for this podcast would be pretty huge so here's hoping one of the big platforms steps in with an offer soon. Otherwise, I'm going to need the world's biggest couch to search under for lost pennies...

Please keep us updated, and to echo Frankie Hellis, if there's anything we can do, let us know!

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

The balcony is lower as it is not on the same level as the as living room, which is the second floor.

See here:
View attachment 488545

The windows above the door is the living room - second floor.
Look at the balcony to the left, the height of it is lower than even the front door - it is the “second middle floor”. Not difficult at all to get up on to.

I see what you mean about Rei's room being a mid-level between the ground floor and the second floor. I missed that before.

I'm still not sure how easy it would be to climb up onto the balcony--unless the killer was a parkour expert or something of that sort. But if that was the case, the bathroom window probably wouldn't pose much of a problem, either.

I used to love climbing when I was younger (can barely climb stairs now!) and it looks like quite an awkward climb to me. You'd need upper body strength to pull yourself up and over the rail, even with a boost from something like the car. The railings on the balcony also appear to be very closely spaced, so there wouldn't be a lot of room to put your hands or feet to get good grip. If the killer was also wearing gloves, which it appears he was prior to cutting himself, his grip may not have been very good anyway; if he took the gloves off, he would have left handprints. I'd be surprised if he didn't also leave some footprints on the car, the wall or the balcony. Yet none have been mentioned.

The bathroom window is also tricky, not least because even if you could get through the window, you'd probably fall in the bath and make a huge amount of noise. But the flyscreen was cut away and it appears the killer at least wanted to make it *look* like that was the entry or exit point.

I'm torn because none of the probable entry or exit points look like the ideal choice for someone who was looking for a random, easy house to break into. I think the balcony is the most likely entrance point, but even that only looks *easier* rather than easy.

If there was a personal reason for targeting the Miyazawa's, the TMPD seemingly never found it. Yet I struggle to understand targeting this house, with lights on and people obviously inside, with all the difficulties of getting into the house to begin with, if the Miyazawa's weren't a deliberate target.

 

[Charlot123]

Miura is on the other side of the peninsula to the Mabori Beach area (where Yokosuka naval base is). I think it's possible this may be the same sand we're talking about.

And yes, for sure Koreans and Japanese and so on have distinct features. But it's much easier to blend in with a low-brimmed hat and a puffer jacket walking in the dark as, say, a Korean-American, than for a Hungarian or Spaniard to do the same in Setagaya 23 years ago.

Well, Miura sand. It was a place for skateboarders, and the Miyazawas spent a summer there two years earlier.

As to the hat, yes. But when he was making the purchases, was he wearing the hat? If not, and if he looked a tad unusual, the sales ladies should have remembered him. Plus, he must have gotten on the some cameras.

 

[Incoherent]

I see what you mean about Rei's room being a mid-level between the ground floor and the second floor. I missed that before.

I'm still not sure how easy it would be to climb up onto the balcony--unless the killer was a parkour expert or something of that sort. But if that was the case, the bathroom window probably wouldn't pose much of a problem, either.

I used to love climbing when I was younger (can barely climb stairs now!) and it looks like quite an awkward climb to me. You'd need upper body strength to pull yourself up and over the rail, even with a boost from something like the car. The railings on the balcony also appear to be very closely spaced, so there wouldn't be a lot of room to put your hands or feet to get good grip. If the killer was also wearing gloves, which it appears he was prior to cutting himself, his grip may not have been very good anyway; if he took the gloves off, he would have left handprints. I'd be surprised if he didn't also leave some footprints on the car, the wall or the balcony. Yet none have been mentioned.

The bathroom window is also tricky, not least because even if you could get through the window, you'd probably fall in the bath and make a huge amount of noise. But the flyscreen was cut away and it appears the killer at least wanted to make it *look* like that was the entry or exit point.

I'm torn because none of the probable entry or exit points look like the ideal choice for someone who was looking for a random, easy house to break into. I think the balcony is the most likely entrance point, but even that only looks *easier* rather than easy.

If there was a personal reason for targeting the Miyazawa's, the TMPD seemingly never found it. Yet I struggle to understand targeting this house, with lights on and people obviously inside, with all the difficulties of getting into the house to begin with, if the Miyazawa's weren't a deliberate target.

All good points. It wouldn’t have been a totally easy feat either way, but besides those two entry points the only other is the front door. And that is the least likely. So we have to assume whoever he was he had reasonable enough upper body strength to get through the bathroom window or up onto the balcony if he didn’t step onto the car. The ferocity of the attack also shows he wasn’t exactly feeble despite being skinny.

And JMO, I don’t think it was random at all. I think the family were known to the killer, but to what length is debatable. He could have just known OF them rather than actually knowing them personally. Maybe he saw them at the park a few times, or had a small interaction somewhere, or had a mutual connection. But I think he knew of them and felt something strong enough that made him want to do it while the lights were on, the house was full, and without any regard to trying to stay hidden and discreet.
He could have also just seen them a few times and decided to lock on to them if he was just looking to commit murder. Insane people can be anywhere. But I still do think it was not totally random.

As for the reason why he would do it, that’s one of the million dollar questions.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Easier seems to be a very relative thing in this case. Other than being let in through the front door, none of the potential entry points appear to be easy.

And that confuses me, because random intruders tend to choose easy targets. I still think the location of the house would make it a target, but ignoring that, the layout of the house appears to make it quite a difficult house to gain access to. It takes effort to get into this house. Without a specific reason for making that effort, it seems like it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

Yes exactly. Honestly, all of the potential entry points have their problems in one way or another. But Rei's balcony is by far the most logical / least problematic of them all. Did you see the video from @Incoherent ? It shows the rear bathroom window is physically possible but seems totally implausible. The sequence of the murders themselves and lack of known relationship with the family stands against him using the front door. To me, that leaves this balcony.

And for sure, I think he *chose* them. He had a specific reason. How directly or indirectly they were involved in his reasoning? That's the 64-million-dollar question.

 

[Charlot123]

This probably can't be answered, but is there any chance the killer tried to get into other houses, maybe even An's house, and the Miyazawa's were just unlucky that he managed to get into theirs?

I've also been looking at the pictures of the house. Am I misinterpreting the images, or is the driveway/garage kind of in a pit that sits lower than the rest of the house? I ask because to me it looks like the balcony is higher, and possibly harder to reach, than it appears to be at first glance.

If the killer had climbed onto the car you would think there would be some evidence of that, but I'm not sure the TMPD has ever said anything about it? There are some objects near the garage which could have been used as a step, but it's hard to tell how solid they would be.

I've made this quick scribble to show what I mean about the garage "pit" being lower compared to the front door:

View attachment 488488

I am not a specialist in B@E, but could he have placed something on the steps to step on it and get to the balcony?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Nic, when you say "Universal" offered funds to run the DNA, who do you mean? The only "Universal" I can think of is Universal Studios. Is that it? If so, I think I can understand Ann Irie's refusal. If she feels like she's been burned by press, journos, etc., I'd have to think she'd be very fearful of a company so large and powerful. I'd shut down at the first mention of it. Sad, though, of course.

Yes, it was USG which is the podcast arm of Universal Studio Group. I completely understand her stance on not wanting to engage with the press. My only point was, I was "offering something in return", as it were. I've said many times, there is no single road map to dealing with grief or victimhood. But I think if it were me and I pleaded with the press to do everything they could to identify the killer, if a member of said press came to me offering the chance at doing this very thing, I would at least discuss the possibility with them.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I see what you mean about Rei's room being a mid-level between the ground floor and the second floor. I missed that before.

I'm still not sure how easy it would be to climb up onto the balcony--unless the killer was a parkour expert or something of that sort. But if that was the case, the bathroom window probably wouldn't pose much of a problem, either.

I used to love climbing when I was younger (can barely climb stairs now!) and it looks like quite an awkward climb to me. You'd need upper body strength to pull yourself up and over the rail, even with a boost from something like the car. The railings on the balcony also appear to be very closely spaced, so there wouldn't be a lot of room to put your hands or feet to get good grip. If the killer was also wearing gloves, which it appears he was prior to cutting himself, his grip may not have been very good anyway; if he took the gloves off, he would have left handprints. I'd be surprised if he didn't also leave some footprints on the car, the wall or the balcony. Yet none have been mentioned.

The bathroom window is also tricky, not least because even if you could get through the window, you'd probably fall in the bath and make a huge amount of noise. But the flyscreen was cut away and it appears the killer at least wanted to make it *look* like that was the entry or exit point.

I'm torn because none of the probable entry or exit points look like the ideal choice for someone who was looking for a random, easy house to break into. I think the balcony is the most likely entrance point, but even that only looks *easier* rather than easy.

If there was a personal reason for targeting the Miyazawa's, the TMPD seemingly never found it. Yet I struggle to understand targeting this house, with lights on and people obviously inside, with all the difficulties of getting into the house to begin with, if the Miyazawa's weren't a deliberate target.

While I don't think it would be easy to get up to Rei's balcony --car or no car-- but I don't think you'd require any special skills. It's not high at all and the car was parked there. We know the TMPD looked at that car too. But as you say, he was wearing gloves while murdering Rei and attacking Mikio, so we have to assume they were on while breaking in.

The video of the window entrance shows you can actually get into the bathroom without making a massive amount of noise but the clattering of the fence and the body against the wall as he shuffles in somewhat negates that. I think the cut fly-screen makes it possible he was debating which way to enter, yes. As you say, the difficulties in entering the house only further strengthens the idea that the killer came to destroy them. Also evidenced by his pretty serious injury not deterring him -- he continued with the attack, merely switching the knife to his other hand from the sounds of it. Some opportunist robber wouldn't have immediately murdered a sleeping child, sustained a fairly significant loss of blood, but then powered through with the murder of two people in an attic that hadn't even seen him.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Well, Miura sand. It was a place for skateboarders, and the Miyazawas spent a summer there two years earlier.

As to the hat, yes. But when he was making the purchases, was he wearing the hat? If not, and if he looked a tad unusual, the sales ladies should have remembered him. Plus, he must have gotten on the some cameras.

I'm not sure the sand was from Miura, the city (pop 40,000+), or the entire Miura Peninsula which includes Yokosuka and several important cities and towns. So, I would be hesitant to say Miura = skateboarders, although many people have pointed out there is a skateboarding competition held there. So, too, are they held in Tokyo. I'm yet to find a single credible link between the killer and skateboarding. Yes, we know the TMPD looked into skaters in their investigation but so far zero suspects, leads or arrests. The grip tape clue I have been provided any clarity on. The Chief didn't seem to know anything about it nor where that idea had even come from. The TMPD says nothing about it on their website:

As for the hat, I can only assume that the TMPD have gone after it (and all his clothing) very hard. They are where they are which tells us the hat has yielded nothing, CCTV (such as it was 23 years ago) has yielded nothing.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I am not a specialist in B@E, but could he have placed something on the steps to step on it and get to the balcony?

I think he just used the car. Once standing on the car, it would've been relatively easy to get up to Rei's balcony.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

He could have also just seen them a few times and decided to lock on to them if he was just looking to commit murder. Insane people can be anywhere. But I still do think it was not totally random.

As for the reason why he would do it, that’s one of the million dollar questions.

For some context, my POI was experiencing life changes that, seemingly, left him feeling rage. He could well be innocent of any crime, of course. But it 'feels' right that someone might be unable to lash out at the architect of their pain and therefore seek out other, more vulnerable surrogates...

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

The passage of time makes it difficult for me to judge certain things. The balcony, for example. Looking at the newer pictures, the balcony looks quite weak and like it could fall down soon. I look at it and think I wouldn't want to attempt climbing it. The railing looks like it would barely hold any weight.

But presumably that's the result of age and decay, and it didn't look like that 23/24 years ago. I haven't seen a really clear picture of the balcony from the time of the murders to make a truly informed decision.