Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #4

[Kitsey]

Thread 'NY - Family of four found dead in basement of their Irondequoit home, 31 Aug 2024'

Sep 1, 2024

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WROC:

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/top-stories/several-people-found-dead-after-irondequoit-fire-police-investigating-incident-as-homicide/

[Police Investigating deathS as homicideS.]

Press Conference scheduled for Monday at Noon EDT.

Nights with Ping, beginning at 50:30:...

• Richrd
• Replies: 153
• Forum: In the News

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There is this recent case. I have also been scouring my brains for similar cases. Hinterkaifeck comes to mind, and, of course the Clutter family. I know there are others but they usually feature SA elements.

 

[cenazoic]

Where I'm at right now is if the killer was American, he probably did commit additional murders that were very different than this one back in the US, and if he was Japanese or Korean he probably died not too long after the murders (possibly by suicide, possibly not).

Interesting, are you willing to speculate on why you think there would be a difference based on [not sure if you mean nationality/ethnicity]?

I also have a hard time imagining a teenager committing this crime; I think because it ‘feels’ so …bloodless, passionless, despite the actual blood and viciousness. Not sure if those are the right words, I’m grasping. I mean, that doesn’t make sense, I know, but there was something essentially just stone cold about these murders.

 

[Bobban]

Good points. I am having similar thoughts, well a little bit:

1. Just how risky his choices were to easily get caught by entry/exit, leaving volumes of props behind, staying after, etc. (another reason I think not a stranger, seems to be confident familiarity/comfort)

2. Last night I had wondered briefly too if Rei "was to blame" or the root of anger... yes a knife attack is more vicious/gruesome but strangling is very personal and more a sense of power kill

But then I go back to Yasuko over and over. Of course they all are the targets in the end... I am open minded but still searching for any connections/catalysts because it's so frustrating and sad.

I've been speculating about this too but somehow ended up with different thoughts so here is a bit or a different perspective:

1. The whole act itself is risky, enetring another persons house at that time of evening/night is risky. If his plan was to take as few risks as possible he wouldn't have struck at a time when people could still be awake. At a time like 3am you could almost guarantee everyone is asleep in the house but he doesn't/can't wait until then. I think his risky behavior shows how little he knew about the family because if he knew or was even just slightly familiar with their routine there would have been better opportunities. He could have easily just picked another night when Mikios car wasn't parked out front (assuming Mikio like most japanese workers work later into the evening) and attacked the family and waited for Mikio to return home.

2. The fact that Rei was strangled was probably just a choice to keep the element of surprise. A child that age isn't home alone at that time of night and screams or sounds of a knife attack would definitely be a way to get the parents immediate attention. Strangling is the most basic and barbaric way to make someone quite, I don't think the motive behind the attack on Rei was much deeper than that. Seems like Rei was the least interesting to the perp, from the drawn photos of the scene it doesn't even seem like the perp bothered to look at Rei's face.

(Been reading these threads for too long without getting involved in the discussion. R.i.p to the Miyazawa family and may the remaining family get answeres soon)

 

[dub]

Interesting, are you willing to speculate on why you think there would be a difference based on [not sure if you mean nationality/ethnicity]?

I also have a hard time imagining a teenager committing this crime; I think because it ‘feels’ so …bloodless, passionless, despite the actual blood and viciousness. Not sure if those are the right words, I’m grasping. I mean, that doesn’t make sense, I know, but there was something essentially just stone cold about these murders.

I meant by nationality, sorry should have clarified.

It's mostly because I believe the killer would have eventually continued committing murders after this one, and as Nic and others have noted it would be nearly impossible for him to do so in Japan or Korea without getting connected to the Miyazawas. But I see no reason why he couldn't have done so in the U.S.


And "stone cold" is a perfect word to describe it as far as I'm concerned, I feel exactly the same way.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Thread 'NY - Family of four found dead in basement of their Irondequoit home, 31 Aug 2024'

Sep 1, 2024

.

WROC:

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/top-stories/several-people-found-dead-after-irondequoit-fire-police-investigating-incident-as-homicide/

[Police Investigating deathS as homicideS.]

Press Conference scheduled for Monday at Noon EDT.

Nights with Ping, beginning at 50:30:...

• Richrd
• Replies: 153
• Forum: In the News

• 
• 

There is this recent case. I have also been scouring my brains for similar cases. Hinterkaifeck comes to mind, and, of course the Clutter family. I know there are others but they usually feature SA elements.

Yes that's right. And the Rhoden family (custody) - may they all rest in peace.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

RSBM I considered this prior to the new info, but now I don't think so. Rather than the family murders listed above, this now feels more to me like the Idaho murders, and I do not think this would have been a one-off for him by his own choice.

RSBM: Funny, I mentioned what I thought similarities to Idaho 4 way back a few threads when I first joined in, but many disagreed with me haha...

I thought the motive/perp might have a similar reason or background in the cases. I was following Idaho 4, but then got too busy. I think 1 girl was target and rest collateral damage but I think that's still being debated IIRC.

I think they are still unsure if Idaho 4 Bryan's crime was the only one or not. Anyways, back to topic - I thought there was similarities as well and perhaps Bryan read about the Miyazawa's crime or studied it at school while taking Criminology or whatever but who knows!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I've been speculating about this too but somehow ended up with different thoughts so here is a bit or a different perspective:

1. The whole act itself is risky, enetring another persons house at that time of evening/night is risky. If his plan was to take as few risks as possible he wouldn't have struck at a time when people could still be awake. At a time like 3am you could almost guarantee everyone is asleep in the house but he doesn't/can't wait until then. I think his risky behavior shows how little he knew about the family because if he knew or was even just slightly familiar with their routine there would have been better opportunities. He could have easily just picked another night when Mikios car wasn't parked out front (assuming Mikio like most japanese workers work later into the evening) and attacked the family and waited for Mikio to return home.

Exactly, agree. And strange he went in when obvious people awake and didn't wait until that 'perfect time' of 2/3am! I mean stranger or no stranger - if he stood outside in front, back or side.. he would see lights on, no? The grandmother's light's on if watching TV, no? What kind of killer doesn't wait until they're asleep or as you say the male's car isn't there? So strange and hugely more risky than a 3am time IMO. I feel like this can still go both ways for stranger/no stranger.

Or let's say he approached the house from the back, would he see lights on? You think he'd scout the house out and do a 360 before entering but I remember that being said about the Idaho 4... how so many cars were parked there and yet the killer still entered knowing possibly more people there!

2. The fact that Rei was strangled was probably just a choice to keep the element of surprise. A child that age isn't home alone at that time of night and screams or sounds of a knife attack would definitely be a way to get the parents immediate attention. Strangling is the most basic and barbaric way to make someone quite, I don't think the motive behind the attack on Rei was much deeper than that. Seems like Rei was the least interesting to the perp, from the drawn photos of the scene it doesn't even seem like the perp bothered to look at Rei's face.

(Been reading these threads for too long without getting involved in the discussion. R.i.p to the Miyazawa family and may the remaining family get answeres soon)

Very true. I waffle back and forth on this for sure. Also, if killer felt 'militant' and on a mission, he might think of himself on the front lines of battle or something warped like that and Rei the enemy and has to make his way to accomplish mission by all means possible. All speculation on my part of course.

 

[dub]

RSBM: Funny, I mentioned what I thought similarities to Idaho 4 way back a few threads when I first joined in, but many disagreed with me haha...

I thought the motive/perp might have a similar reason or background in the cases. I was following Idaho 4, but then got too busy. I think 1 girl was target and rest collateral damage but I think that's still being debated IIRC.

I think they are still unsure if Idaho 4 Bryan's crime was the only one or not. Anyways, back to topic - I thought there was similarities as well and perhaps Bryan read about the Miyazawa's crime or studied it at school while taking Criminology or whatever but who knows!

I haven't followed that case since very early on, but I see similarities for sure. I see it more in light of the new info than I did previously.

I'd be shocked if that was Kohberger's only murder, and that's kind of how I'm feeling here too although not quite as strongly.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

DBM - Double post

 

[Bobban]

Exactly, agree. And strange he went in when obvious people awake and didn't wait until that 'perfect time' of 2/3am! I mean stranger or no stranger - if he stood outside in front, back or side.. he would see lights on, no? The grandmother's light's on if watching TV, no? What kind of killer doesn't wait until they're asleep or as you say the male's car isn't there? So strange and hugely more risky than a 3am time IMO. I feel like this can still go both ways for stranger/no stranger.

Or let's say he approached the house from the back, would he see lights on? You think he'd scout the house out and do a 360 before entering but I remember that being said about the Idaho 4... how so many cars were parked there and yet the killer still entered knowing possibly more people there!

Very true. I waffle back and forth on this for sure. Also, if killer felt 'militant' and on a mission, he might think of himself on the front lines of battle or something warped like that and Rei the enemy and has to make his way to accomplish mission by all means possible. All speculation on my part of course.

Yes I completely agree that he must have seen signs that people were home and awake from the outside before entering. If he wanted a house were everyone was asleep or not home that probably wouldnt be too hard to find as the surrounding area is all residential. The only thing that sets the Miyazawa house appart is the park bordering the back of the house. You can't sit down in the middle of a residential street and observe houses and people without being seen as suspicious but in a park it's totally okay to sit down and observe your surroundings for as long as one would like. The window could have been the point of entry simply because that's what was visible from the closest park area and easy to include in a hastily made plan. Looking at the even and the aftermath it seems like the perp planned for everything he could except what was actually going to happen in the house. He entered the house fully equipped, he had a weapon (that fails), gloves to not leave fingerprints (that fails and his prints are found at the scene), a bandana to hide his face (that he leaves the scene of a quadruple murder without, so apparently it was more important to hide his identity defore the attack rather than after? Unless he took something from the house to cover his face?), he also wears white shoes and a white shirt when he intends to carry out a knife attack that's obviously going to be bloody.

The military theory is very believable but his actions in the house don't seem very "militant" unless you want it to fit into that idea. Feels more like he runs into problem after problem that he didn't account for despite having planed a attack to a certain degree.

 

[Charlot123]

Sorting through some of my other thoughts…

I now find it even harder to believe that the window was the entry point. It seems now that the intent was a sneak attack rather than a blitz attack, and that bathroom is JUST around the corner of the line of Mikio’s sight.

If Mikio heard anything, he could easily be watching, or even up into the bathroom, by the time the killer made it into the room. (And I know there’s a possibility that the bathroom door was closed, but even then, the killer has to open the door with a decent chance that Mikio will be either looking or standing right there when he does so).


And a thing I’m having a lot of trouble with:

Under normal circumstances, Niina and Rei would have both been sleeping on the bunks, right? And the killer couldn’t have strangled both of them, and attacking both of them at the same time would have almost certainly drawn attention from Mikio and/or Yasuko.

Interesting idea. That night Niina was sleeping with the mother because she was ill. Do you think he came for the kids? To abduct or kill, but solely the kids?

So, supposedly, the perpetrator had been observing the house for a few days? Then, the routine might have looked as follows: In the evening, the kids would take a bath and be sent to bed. After that, Yasuko would take a bath and go upstairs. Mikio, as I suspect, with his obsessive trait to make a “catalogue” of purchases and expenditures, might spend some additional time with his “collection”, but he can’t go upstairs too late, otherwise, the house will be up again. So in 15-20 min or so, he’d switch off his computer, take a bath and go upstairs. Then the light in the loft would be switched off.

So was strangling Rei a snap decision, the original plan WAS a blitz attack, and the killer just got lucky? Or ?????

JMO - what happened this time was different in that Niina and Yasuko went upstairs. The perp might have not known about it. If they switched off the light in the loft and the kids’ room, it could have seemed to the perp as if the “both kids and adults” were asleep. IRL, Mikio was working at the computer. But depending on the light he used, a tiny lamp in the cubicle, for example, may not have been noticeable to someone looking at the bathroom window or at the front balcony. So the killer gets into the house, whatever way he did it, and enters the kids’ room.

Niina is not in her bed. He probably would have started with her, given that Rei might have been a sound sleeper, but he has to improvise. So instead of Niina, he strangles the only person, Rei. I think he planned to strangle both kids.

This is an issue to me regardless of the entry point, but is a much bigger one if the window was used. Sneaking past the most obvious threat to the killer to silently kill one person is one thing, but planning on doing so to loudly kill two is an entirely different one.

Maybe he planned to kill the kids and slide back, through the balcony? The loft could have been closed, and perhaps he hoped that the adults won’t hear?

Obviously, he was rather graceful in movements and could walk quietly. I wonder if the entry point was the bathroom window. I thought it could be a door, but unlikely; maybe from the car to the balcony? The balcony door could have been unlocked; it is the second floor, after all.

Additional thought: old computers won’t switch off momentarily. The screen was usually green on black. Do you remember entering a dark room with several computers in the old time? These were desktops, and their screens would emit soft green light. If Mikio used a small green lamp in his cubicle, the perp could have easily taken it for the computer screen. What he probably saw was no light in the loft and no light in kids’ room. Some green light in the computer area. I think it was dark on the second floor. If Mikio was into saving electricity, maybe he’d switch off the light on the second floor, planning to switch it back on when he’d go upstairs?

 

[Charlot123]

Exactly, agree. And strange he went in when obvious people awake and didn't wait until that 'perfect time' of 2/3am! I mean stranger or no stranger - if he stood outside in front, back or side.. he would see lights on, no? The grandmother's light's on if watching TV, no? What kind of killer doesn't wait until they're asleep or as you say the male's car isn't there? So strange and hugely more risky than a 3am time IMO. I feel like this can still go both ways for stranger/no stranger.

Or let's say he approached the house from the back, would he see lights on? You think he'd scout the house out and do a 360 before entering but I remember that being said about the Idaho 4... how so many cars were parked there and yet the killer still entered knowing possibly more people there!

Very true. I waffle back and forth on this for sure. Also, if killer felt 'militant' and on a mission, he might think of himself on the front lines of battle or something warped like that and Rei the enemy and has to make his way to accomplish mission by all means possible. All speculation on my part of course.

There was the time when no one was at home, Rei and Mikio went shopping and Yasuko and Niina went to the sister’s house? Later, they were all shopping, I think.

This is where, perhaps, the duplicates of keys or keys hanging next to the door may play a negative role. Someone’s friend might make a duplicate or even “borrow” a key when leaving without anyone noticing. He could have hidden in the house for an hour or two. On leaving, he’d leave the key in the house.

Something bothers me about the key and the door being locked, or not.

 

[Kitsey]

Yes that's right. And the Rhoden family (custody) - may they all rest in peace.

How could I forget the Rhodens!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes I completely agree that he must have seen signs that people were home and awake from the outside before entering. If he wanted a house were everyone was asleep or not home that probably wouldnt be too hard to find as the surrounding area is all residential. The only thing that sets the Miyazawa house appart is the park bordering the back of the house. You can't sit down in the middle of a residential street and observe houses and people without being seen as suspicious but in a park it's totally okay to sit down and observe your surroundings for as long as one would like. The window could have been the point of entry simply because that's what was visible from the closest park area and easy to include in a hastily made plan. Looking at the even and the aftermath it seems like the perp planned for everything he could except what was actually going to happen in the house. He entered the house fully equipped, he had a weapon (that fails), gloves to not leave fingerprints (that fails and his prints are found at the scene), a bandana to hide his face (that he leaves the scene of a quadruple murder without, so apparently it was more important to hide his identity defore the attack rather than after? Unless he took something from the house to cover his face?), he also wears white shoes and a white shirt when he intends to carry out a knife attack that's obviously going to be bloody.

The military theory is very believable but his actions in the house don't seem very "militant" unless you want it to fit into that idea. Feels more like he runs into problem after problem that he didn't account for despite having planed a attack to a certain degree.

Good thought about the park view, wouldn't look suspicious at all.

Seems he had a 'kill kit' of sorts and I have asked a few times (same as you) "who in the world wears white and their own clothes to a knife murder"??

Why come 'equipped' then wear trendy, semi expensive clothes and a hat to boot!? The Idaho 4 killer and Manson followers IIRC wore black.

I get the hat can conceal the hair and scarf perhaps over the face.. but could easily wear all black and put a toque in the hip bag or pocket. I think that's why I think his clothes were props and bought new or used as a distraction to leave behind at the scene to paint a certain demographic.

OR perhaps the killer didn't have the privacy of his own vehicle or getaway transport and had to dress himself in usual attire to blend in and not stand out if on foot or would be seen somewhat after (train, public transport, etc.)... MOO

 

[FacelessPodcast]

The military theory is very believable but his actions in the house don't seem very "militant" unless you want it to fit into that idea. Feels more like he runs into problem after problem that he didn't account for despite having planed a attack to a certain degree.

Welcome, @Bobban. RSBM: To be clear, the theory is not that he is military but a familial dependent of a USAF parent.

It's mostly because I believe the killer would have eventually continued committing murders after this one, and as Nic and others have noted it would be nearly impossible for him to do so in Japan or Korea without getting connected to the Miyazawas. But I see no reason why he couldn't have done so in the U.S.

It is simply not possible he has committed any further murders in Japan (unless he did so without leaving a single trace of himself behind amid the tiny number of unsolved perfect murders in that nation). Unlikely to the point of essentially impossible imo.

As for Korea, for him to even enter the nation, they would have his fingerprints. This means the TMPD would have only checked with their Korean counterparts one single time for results on their national database prior to the killer being old enough to be registered and never checked again. I can't say this is an impossibility but, given the theories we know for certain the TMPD have worked, it would be grossly inept to the point of it being near impossible to fathom.

I get the hat can conceal the hair and scarf perhaps over the face.. but could easily wear all black and put a toque in the hip bag or pocket. I think that's why I think his clothes were props and bought new or used as a distraction to leave behind at the scene to paint a certain demographic.

OR perhaps the killer didn't have the privacy of his own vehicle or getaway transport and had to dress himself in usual attire to blend in and not stand out if on foot or would be seen somewhat after (train, public transport, etc.)... MOO

The TMPD say the killer was as young as 15 on the night of the murders. We know he made all manner of mistakes in the house. I think it's as simple as not thinking it through fully: we have no idea what pants he wore, they might've been black. He quite possibly didn't expect to get blood on his shoes. And it seems he only took off his jacket and changed into Mikio's sweatshirt once he had no choice. Because otherwise we'd have to imagine that he factored in leaving his own clothes at the scene to steal Mikio's before his escape. I don't buy that.

Maybe he planned to kill the kids and slide back, through the balcony? The loft could have been closed, and perhaps he hoped that the adults won’t hear?

If the new documentary is to be believed, then this is easily refuted. According to them, he went downstairs and stabbed Mikio while he was at his computer. If this is true, it almost certainly means that nobody heard the killer attack Rei. Or, if they heard noise, they assume it's Rei making noises as he habitually did.

My own view so far is that there is absolutely zero divulged yet, one way or another, that solidly points to who his 'true' target was. Zero. What we know is that he killed them all and, if these new developments are to be taken at face value, then it's pretty clear that he had the chance to leave the house after murdering Rei. He didn't do that. He proceeded to kill them all. Therefore, the net result was his intention all along.

Something bothers me about the key and the door being locked, or not.

Happy to be proved wrong here but, as I understand it, we still have absolutely no indication as to what exactly is behind the notion that the door was locked when Haruko discovered the bodies. There is certainly no evidence either way, let alone a copied set of keys. The police have not explained this change in stance, nor does the documentary add to this. The only person who would've known if that door was locked or not has passed away years ago. And she said she couldn't remember in the carnage. Completely understandable.

All JMO.

 

[Incoherent]

Happy to be proved wrong here but, as I understand it, we still have absolutely no indication as to what exactly is behind the notion that the door was locked when Haruko discovered the bodies. There is certainly no evidence either way, let alone a copied set of keys. The police have not explained this change in stance, nor does the documentary add to this. The only person who would've known if that door was locked or not has passed away years ago. And she said she couldn't remember in the carnage. Completely understandable.

All JMO.

RSBM: to my knowledge there has not been anything concrete reported other than “the door was locked” in a few news articles. No mention about who said that.

Additionally in the recent documentary it makes a point to replay the part of the phone call several times that shows the police asking if the door was locked or not, and An’s husband replying that he doesn’t know because he didn’t open it. When he attempts to ask Haruko she is unable to answer because she is so distraught.

The only way we would ever know this is if Haruko said it and yet nothing reports that she did.

I am still working my way through An’s book and nothing as of yet in there either.

 

[Incoherent]

The TMPD is now using an updated poster of the case with QR codes to submit information, as well as including a newspaper clipping from January 1st 2001 highlighting how Yasuko protected Niina. Nothing much has really changed on it besides that. They notify you that the monetary reward has been renewed for another year.

Besides that I’ve noticed a slight uptick in the posters out in Tokyo and more koban are displaying them further away from the scene than before.

 

[Captain Hastings]

In terms of point of entry I do not believe it was via the bathroom window. The most likely route in my opinion is via the car and onto the balcony, the door of which I believe was left unlocked. It would be very easy to do and the noise created would be minimal. Compare this to the noisy Spiderman act that would be required to enter via the bathroom window.

The balcony as a point of entry would explain why Rei was killed first via strangulation and it would have enabled the killer to move downstairs to attack Mikio whilst maintaining the element of suprise. Once Mikio was killed then a sleeping Yasuko and Niina are easy targets. This would explain how he seemingly managed to kill one family member after another without the others realising.

The bathroom window mesh being cut was possibly an attempt to scope out the idea of exiting that way, but most likely it was an attempt to confuse the police as to the real point of entry. It would fit in with the other attempts that appear to have been made to hide the motives for the murders as a robbery gone wrong. The actual exit point was simply via the front door

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

Thread 'NY - Family of four found dead in basement of their Irondequoit home, 31 Aug 2024'

Sep 1, 2024

.

WROC:

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/top-stories/several-people-found-dead-after-irondequoit-fire-police-investigating-incident-as-homicide/

[Police Investigating deathS as homicideS.]

Press Conference scheduled for Monday at Noon EDT.

Nights with Ping, beginning at 50:30:...

• Richrd
• Replies: 153
• Forum: In the News

• 
• 

There is this recent case. I have also been scouring my brains for similar cases. Hinterkaifeck comes to mind, and, of course the Clutter family. I know there are others but they usually feature SA elements.

In August 2000, there was also the case in Oita, Japan of a 15 years old boy targeting his neighbors, the Iwasaki family, for murder because he was accused of peeping on the family’s 15 years old granddaughter. He broke into farmhouse around 3 AM and stabbed all 6 residents. 3 of the residents fortunately survived but tragically Sumiko Iwaski, 66, her daughter Tomoko, 41, and her grandson Junya, 13 succumbed to their injuries.

Sensitive boy kills neighbours

Japanese fears of a wave of "Jekyll and Hyde" juvenile violence intensified yesterday when a "well-behaved and sensitive" schoolboy fatally stabbed three neighbours because the family had accused him of being a peeping tom.

www.theguardian.com

Violent juvenile crimes in Japan point to a deeper social crisis

A series of violent crimes perpetrated by young people in Japan over the last year has generated considerable public discussion and concern. As in other countries, the response in the media and official circles has been to demand harsher penalties and to prosecute young offenders as adults. But...

www.wsws.org

Rereading the WSW article reminded me though Japan has a notable low crime rate, at the time the Setagaya murders took place there was already concern in the rise of violent crime, including rape, premeditated murder and assault among the Japanese youth, particularly between 1997, when the infamous Kobe murders took place and 2007, when this trend began to finally see a downturn. Researchers believe that such factors economic stagnation, a stringent school system based on exams, pressures from parents at home and feelings of isolation and distance from their country’s political and social foundations played a role in this rise of juvenile violence, which gained nationwide attention questioning public safety and how to best address the issue with each case brutal or horrifying case that stumped and scared the public.

Japan's declining youth crime? - Asian Studies Association of Australia

Contrary to popular belief, the number of juvenile offenders and cases in Japan has decreased significantly in recent years. In an interview with Ms Yoshiko Ohmachi, a Family Court probation officer for the Supreme Court of Japan, Stacey Steele explores the reasons behind the decline. SS...

asaa.asn.au

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0190740923002104

Rising Crime, Fear of Crime and Prison Population in Japan: The Press, Police Scandals and Public Opinion, Preliminary Version | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

Youth violence has Japan struggling for answers

 

[SteveL]

Could the bathroom screen have been removed strictly for peeping or scouting purposes? Maybe the killer had no intention of entering via the bathroom, but removed the screen for other purposes.