Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

[snakefinger]

suppose this would assume that Rei had woken up and seen him. The only thing we really know about this murder is that he was face-down. But this could still easily have gone down the way you suggest. It definitely makes sense.

I could imagine something along the line of the following:
Perp enters bathroom window, making some amount of noise. Possibly not at a level to fully alert father downstairs, but enough to wake the boy. The boy rises from bed, and encounters the perp. Perp overpowers and holds him face-down while strangling him. At this point, there is the matter of the "military" type pacing back and forth. If this was audible downstairs, and certainly could have been given the size and construction of the house, this may well have fully engaged the father's attention and brought him up the stairs. Perp would most likely have heard the father's ascent. Subsequent events proceeding from that point forward.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

In some ways this makes me thing of Issei Sagawa, cannibal son of wealthy Japanese who worked the international justice system to avoid prison and became a celebrity in Japan.

Issei Sagawa - Wikipedia

Such a bizarre and fascinating case. Though google categorises him as an 'orator'... hmmm.

Also "Niina" strikes me as an affectionate nickname more than a given name. It's a small thing and just speculation but the more I think about this case and the more Japanese language reporting I read on this case it all seems to have a very strange tone to it that sits wrong with me.

Pretty sure her name was Niina, not a nickname.

And could you expand on what you meant by the tone of the reporting being strange? Interested to hear your thoughts on that.

 

[evilwise]

Such a bizarre and fascinating case. Though google categorises him as an 'orator'... hmmm.

Pretty sure her name was Niina, not a nickname.

And could you expand on what you meant by the tone of the reporting being strange? Interested to hear your thoughts on that.

It's just that Niina isn't a Japanese name it's a Finnish name or how they transliterate the western name Nina so they may have been Anglophiles.

As far as the reporting, in addition to being sensationalized (understandable given how rare such a crime is there), it really reads like a narrative is being pushed that it couldn't possibly be a local based on somewhat circumstantial and even conflicting shreds of evidence but always always with the tone of "this must have been a foreigner". I really have to wonder if that information about many of the articles of clothing not having been available for purchase in Japan would have held up to scrutiny at the time.

 

[StarrChance]

My own feeling is Yasuko was the main target. I think he was a student of hers and he may have acted inappropriately in some way that was reported to his parents, sparking the rage against her. The defecation on their personal property reads to me as “you sh*t on me, I’ll sh*t on you”.
Of course the problem is all her students must have been looked into, so did the family flee Japan or someone is being protected?

 

[Ravenmoon]

I don’t disagree but I’m open minded
I would also like to point out the European clothing and shoes that had English labels ? How would that fit with Japanese clothing and shoes?

Re DNA- has any genealogy been done at all
The DNA identification attributed to the mother is likely to be mitochondrial dna from the defecation as that will only give you the mother’s DNA origin
What about his own DNA
I would like to know if this has been run against all the DNA storage across the world wether it be via CODIS or otherwise

As to the shoes:

I found this article stating that the shoes were actually made by a South Korean shoemaker.:

The print matches that of a shoe made by a South Korean company under an exclusive manufacturing contract with British shoemaker Slazenger.

Killer's footprint clue leads to Korea

AMOO

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Hi! I’m so looking forward to listening to your podcast when it comes out, I read about this case a while ago and it has always baffled me!

I was wondering, how do we know that the perp spoke Japanese? He went through documents and used the computer, but is there something in particular that makes investigators believe that he knew japanese? He could’ve just gone through documents without reading, and and seems like in the computer he could’ve just clicked on the shortcuts. Maybe creating the folder was an accident? Or if he meant to, maybe he was just looking at the symbols. If he couldn’t read maybe that would explain why he was there for only 5 minutes. I’m sure they have thought of that already but I’m just wondering!

Thank you, Smkd! I will be sure to post info about the podcast when I have a release date. It'll be this summer, most likely

As for how we know the killer spoke Japanese, I think this is primarily based on the fact that he logged on to the computer / was going through the family documents / *possibly* clicked on the favourites bar and may or may not have attempted to book tickets.

The only thing I can 100% confirm through Japanese sources is that he logged on and created a new folder. While you do see the rest of those actions such as going to the theatre group website etc. mentioned in news outlets, these tend to be foreign news and I just can't say for sure.

Furthermore, I would wonder if Mikio's keyboards didn't have the English alphabet on them as well?

In short, beyond the fact he was going through the documents and logged on, I'm not wholly sure!

 

[FacelessPodcast]

So Rei was not treated as …unkindly… as the others.

Killer chooses to carry out the compulsive-like pacing in Rei’s room. [Or is that the only option with enough clear space?]

I’m working up a notion that the murderer himself, perhaps, has a “learning development” difficulty of his own.

That Lei was a mercy mission to be relieved of the problems the murderer identifies as being from his family.

If the murderer is a dependent because of an even minor disability he could come off as a Mama’s boy.

Maybe he covered Mrs. Miyazawa face while he was prowling so “Mama” isn’t watching.

Cognitive differences could account for the organized/disorganized nature of the crime.

The disconnect from the horror, the lack of the injury being debilitating or scary, the casualness displayed all could be a lack of comprehending the gravity and subsequent urgency of escape.

He could have attended a special needs school.

It could have been comorbid with a mental illness that progresses like schizophrenia and the perp has gone on to a life that doesn’t present for getting caught at another offense.


Such an intimate, particular intrusion into the the wallet and pocket book then the contents going into the toilet as trash with the empty ice cream cups and feces it offers a view to erasure of the parents.

The house keys in the toilet too representing the disrespect for the home, the perceived quality of family life in the home or affirmation of the finality of the murders?


What were the various “documents” in the toilet?

Was the drawer brought to the bathroom and dumped in the tub full of a particular kind of paperwork? Marriage certificate? Birth Certificates?

The drawer dumped then the pertinent papers selected and consigned to the toilet with the rest of the trash?

It strikes me as important that Niina, a little child too, is not spared her face or neck.

Could a sibling of a person with a psychiatric illness/ learning disability be resented for their ease of life in the face of the perp’s struggles? More on the level of the parents not like the perp?

Just because he is a Mama’s boy doesn’t mean he was happy with being destined to that role and how it was handled by the family.

He buys what is obviously to anyone a very sharp knife because he’s affluent and just buys whatever. He’s naïve that is too thin and delicate for the task.

Japanese wrap items commonly so is it that distinctive to have wrapped the knife?

Furoshiki (風呂敷) is a traditional Japanese technique for folding a fabric used to transport clothing, gifts, bento, etc.​

Japanese handkerchief, FUJI, Violet wisteria


Japanese travel maybe he and his family visited The Air Force Flight Test Museum at Edwards AFB.

Air Force Test Center - Wikipedia



All conjecture and imo.

Great post, thank you, Jade

The kids' bedroom is actually one of the larger spaces in the house. This video shows it quite well:

So, it seems as if he spends the most time in the kids' bedroom but then it's strange because he also eats and hangs out on the couch in the living room/dining area. How the police could know he spent *more* time in the kids' room, I'm not sure. It's also possible as there were no blood pools there, he simply wanted to stay out of the mess.

And that's an interesting theory about this being connected to Rei's learning development issue. I suppose it's possible that if Mikio and Yasuko were taking Rei to a clinic or some kind of facility for this reason, the killer might have even encountered them there.

The mama's boy thing, as I understand it, is based on the food he ate and the ironing of his handkerchiefs. I suppose his age could factor, too. The police explicitly say he's between 15-2o years of age. But it doesn't seem like a hugely solid basis to call him that. (I suppose we would also need to establish what that would tell LE, that he lives with her? That he's dependent on his mother?).

From the images, I'm not sure that he does cover Yasuko's face, it's hard to tell from the images. In the first one it seems as if her face is showing, in the second it's unclear:

Cognitive differences is also something I'm interested. And other people have questioned his mental capacities / grip on reality. Then again, he's able to purchase a knife the day before, patches himself up at the scene so clearly demonstrates self-preservation, leaves the scene to evade capture and doesn't hand himself in. So, likely that he understands there will be consequences to all these actions.

As you say, there are such seemingly 'contradictory' actions. He covers Yasuko with a jacket but also stabs her face beyond recognition? He's someone that wears French aftershave, uses ironed handkerchiefs, and folds up his items on the couch, but is also putting house keys and family items in the toilet to be found with his excrement?

As for what the documents were exactly in the toilet, we don't know. But he took a whole drawerful from the storage unit by the family PC (and next to Mikio was found) and dumped them into the bath tub:

My eyesight is terrible but does that central document perhaps resemble an ID? Is that a photo in the top-right corner? I don't know. I also don't know if he fills the tub with any water.

And I very much agree that it's notable that he stabs Niina in the face and neck. It seems as if he begins doing this the minute he gets into the attic.

As for the wrapping of the knife, the one thing the TMPD mention is a fish factory in China where the workers used handkerchiefs to keep their knives in a similar 'sheath' too.

And as for the visit to the museum at Edwards, that's very much a possibility. As I understand it, you have to give your details and ID in order to join that tour. I'm not sure if this was open prior to December 2000. In any case, the museum itself is about 30 miles away from the actual air force base.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

It's just that Niina isn't a Japanese name it's a Finnish name or how they transliterate the western name Nina so they may have been Anglophiles.

As far as the reporting, in addition to being sensationalized (understandable given how rare such a crime is there), it really reads like a narrative is being pushed that it couldn't possibly be a local based on somewhat circumstantial and even conflicting shreds of evidence but always always with the tone of "this must have been a foreigner". I really have to wonder if that information about many of the articles of clothing not having been available for purchase in Japan would have held up to scrutiny at the time.

RE: Anglophiles, I know that Yasuko's sister lived in the UK, as it happens. But, from a quick search, it seems as if Niina is a Japanese name:

Niina- Japanese Girl Name Meaning | Popular Baby Name

Nina (niina) in Japanese Katakana

https://japanese-names.info/first_name/niina-2/

And as for the press coverage, I see what you're saying, yes. It does seem as if a great deal was made of the fact that his shoes were not available in Japan. As if, somehow, this would mean it were impossible for a local to buy shoes abroad. As they were manufactured in Korea, then it seems as if he's suddenly a Korean himself. Conversely, the sand from the US, for whatever reason did not translate into immediate American suspect?

And as for the DNA, it's only ever said that his contains markers that are most commonly found in 1 in 4 Koreans. Still, 1 in 13 Japanese people. So with terrible quick maths, that's still 9 million+ people? (Or 4.5 million males).

 

[FacelessPodcast]

My own feeling is Yasuko was the main target. I think he was a student of hers and he may have acted inappropriately in some way that was reported to his parents, sparking the rage against her. The defecation on their personal property reads to me as “you **** on me, I’ll **** on you”.
Of course the problem is all her students must have been looked into, so did the family flee Japan or someone is being protected?

I think it's quite possible you're on to something there, StarrChance.

It just doesn't make any sense that the TMPD wouldn't look at the students time and time again. So, either there is a suspect that declined a DNA sample that they've always suspected but for whatever reason not been able to go further with.

Or he's in amongst the list of persons of interest hiding in plain sight.

Or he left soon after the crime.

Or he died.

The alternative is, he's a Jason Bourne-type figure who manages to just walk out of that house and off the face of the earth at the age of 15-20.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

As to the shoes:

I found this article stating that the shoes were actually made by a South Korean shoemaker.:

The print matches that of a shoe made by a South Korean company under an exclusive manufacturing contract with British shoemaker Slazenger.

Killer's footprint clue leads to Korea

AMOO

So, the police interviewed the manufacturer of a Slazenger shoe. Does that imply that they had just borrowed the brand name? Not really sure how this works in terms of IP. When is a Slazenger shoe not a Slazenger shoe!?

These are the ones that he wore:

Do you take that to mean they were manufactured in Korea and only ever sold in Korea too? Because that would change things.

Though that can't quite be strictly the case because these shoes were also on sale in Japan. (Although never in a size as large as the killer's). We know that 4,530 pairs were ever produced costing some ¥4000

 

[Angleterre]

As to the shoes:

I found this article stating that the shoes were actually made by a South Korean shoemaker.:

The print matches that of a shoe made by a South Korean company under an exclusive manufacturing contract with British shoemaker Slazenger.

Killer's footprint clue leads to Korea

AMOO

Wow well done you
That’s fantastic
I’m sure @FacelessPodcast will be glad to hear that

 

[Angleterre]

So, the police interviewed the manufacturer of a Slazenger shoe. Does that imply that they had just borrowed the brand name? Not really sure how this works in terms of IP. When is a Slazenger shoe not a Slazenger shoe!?

These are the ones that he wore:

Do you take that to mean they were manufactured in Korea and only ever sold in Korea too? Because that would change things.

Though that can't quite be strictly the case because these shoes were also on sale in Japan. (Although never in a size as large as the killer's). We know that 4,530 pairs were ever produced costing some ¥4000

@FacelessPodcast
The article states that the metropolitan police went to the Far East in this article dated Feb 2001 in relation to this case and the Slazenger shoes so call new Scotland Yard and ask to be put through to the major crime unit and make enquiries as to who went, which officers, and see if you can get their details to talk with them.

 

[Angleterre]

I think it's quite possible you're on to something there, StarrChance.

It just doesn't make any sense that the TMPD wouldn't look at the students time and time again. So, either there is a suspect that declined a DNA sample that they've always suspected but for whatever reason not been able to go further with.

Or he's in amongst the list of persons of interest hiding in plain sight.

Or he left soon after the crime.

Or he died.

The alternative is, he's a Jason Bourne-type figure who manages to just walk out of that house and off the face of the earth at the age of 15-20.

Certainly one of my theories up there with skateboarding

 

[Angleterre]

So, the police interviewed the manufacturer of a Slazenger shoe. Does that imply that they had just borrowed the brand name? Not really sure how this works in terms of IP. When is a Slazenger shoe not a Slazenger shoe!?

These are the ones that he wore:

Do you take that to mean they were manufactured in Korea and only ever sold in Korea too? Because that would change things.

Though that can't quite be strictly the case because these shoes were also on sale in Japan. (Although never in a size as large as the killer's). We know that 4,530 pairs were ever produced costing some ¥4000

It would have been a collaboration collection Re the manufactured shoe for Korea only
A bit like H&M collaborating on a shoe with Jimmy Choo so it becomes a Jimmy Choo shoe in collaboration with H & M

 

[Angleterre]

RE: Anglophiles, I know that Yasuko's sister lived in the UK, as it happens. But, from a quick search, it seems as if Niina is a Japanese name:

Niina- Japanese Girl Name Meaning | Popular Baby Name

Nina (niina) in Japanese Katakana

https://japanese-names.info/first_name/niina-2/

And as for the press coverage, I see what you're saying, yes. It does seem as if a great deal was made of the fact that his shoes were not available in Japan. As if, somehow, this would mean it were impossible for a local to buy shoes abroad. As they were manufactured in Korea, then it seems as if he's suddenly a Korean himself. Conversely, the sand from the US, for whatever reason did not translate into immediate American suspect?

And as for the DNA, it's only ever said that his contains markers that are most commonly found in 1 in 4 Koreans. Still, 1 in 13 Japanese people. So with terrible quick maths, that's still 9 million+ people? (Or 4.5 million males).

Re the DNA
Was that his DNA @evilwise ? I thought that was the DNA from the defecation tested for mitochondrial dna from mother therefore giving breakdown of this ? I could be wrong as I’ve read that much now but normal dna has around 19 pointers , much less with mitochondrial dna

 

[Smkd]

Thank you, Smkd! I will be sure to post info about the podcast when I have a release date. It'll be this summer, most likely

As for how we know the killer spoke Japanese, I think this is primarily based on the fact that he logged on to the computer / was going through the family documents / *possibly* clicked on the favourites bar and may or may not have attempted to book tickets.

The only thing I can 100% confirm through Japanese sources is that he logged on and created a new folder. While you do see the rest of those actions such as going to the theatre group website etc. mentioned in news outlets, these tend to be foreign news and I just can't say for sure.

Furthermore, I would wonder if Mikio's keyboards didn't have the English alphabet on them as well?

In short, beyond the fact he was going through the documents and logged on, I'm not wholly sure!

Hm, interesting! I wonder if they have something else that makes them think that he spoke Japanese. With what we know I’m honestly not convinced! Creating a folder sounds like something weird and pointless, something one may even accidentally do if you don’t know your way around a foreign computer. Do we know if the folder was named or had anything in it?

I honestly don’t have a theory either way, everything just seems to point to a different direction. I’m not sold on the military theory either, but I was just thinking: if military bases have curfews, maybe the perp was waiting around until he was able to come back in the morning. If he stayed in the house for a while that is.

 

[Angleterre]

Hm, interesting! I wonder if they have something else that makes them think that he spoke Japanese. With what we know I’m honestly not convinced! Creating a folder sounds like something weird and pointless, something one may even accidentally do if you don’t know your way around a foreign computer. Do we know if the folder was named or had anything in it?

I honestly don’t have a theory either way, everything just seems to point to a different direction. I’m not sold on the military theory either, but I was just thinking: if military bases have curfews, maybe the perp was waiting around until he was able to come back in the morning. If he stayed in the house for a while that is.

I understand what you mean @Smkd but I believe if you read what @FacelessPodcast and numerous MSM articles have said about the investigation and also googled the Family name and looked a bit deeper into some of the articles ( which you may have already done so and yet still arrive at the conclusion you have about speaking Japanese and if so I apologise for trying to teach you to suck eggs as the saying goes lol ), then it’s mentioned in various outlets that it would appear that the offender was looking for something specific in amongst the paperwork at the home of the Miyazawa family and that a lot of the documents were in traditional Japanese which is more difficult to understand than more current everyday Japanese and there’s a belief that he therefore was able to read/speak it . I cannot say this as fact , I am merely regurgitating the dozens of articles and MSM pages and Wikipedia articles that I have read combined with @FacelessPodcast ’s post

 

[Angleterre]

Can I ask without having to trawl back through all the posts @FacelessPodcast if the DNA that they have of the offender is a mix of touch DNA and nuclear DNA as opposed to the mitochondrial dna ( obtained from him defecating ) which identifies his mothers line of ancestry?
And do we know /are we sure from what’s been reported that 100% accuracy of the DNA obtained at the scene is that of a male person and not a female? Thank you

 

[Ravenmoon]

So, the police interviewed the manufacturer of a Slazenger shoe. Does that imply that they had just borrowed the brand name? Not really sure how this works in terms of IP. When is a Slazenger shoe not a Slazenger shoe!?

These are the ones that he wore:

Do you take that to mean they were manufactured in Korea and only ever sold in Korea too? Because that would change things.

Though that can't quite be strictly the case because these shoes were also on sale in Japan. (Although never in a size as large as the killer's). We know that 4,530 pairs were ever produced costing some ¥4000

I t does appear that the they were sold and marketed specifically in Korea. . (At least that is how I read it).

The size would be the difference between where the shoes were actually purchased..at least, again- that it how this reads to me.

That could be one of those "little" details that somehow take a back seat but maybe end up being an important piece of the puzzle.

AMOO MOO JMO

 

[Smkd]

I understand what you mean @Smkd but I believe if you read what @FacelessPodcast and numerous MSM articles have said about the investigation and also googled the Family name and looked a bit deeper into some of the articles ( which you may have already done so and yet still arrive at the conclusion you have about speaking Japanese and if so I apologise for trying to teach you to suck eggs as the saying goes lol ), then it’s mentioned in various outlets that it would appear that the offender was looking for something specific in amongst the paperwork at the home of the Miyazawa family and that a lot of the documents were in traditional Japanese which is more difficult to understand than more current everyday Japanese and there’s a belief that he therefore was able to read/speak it . I cannot say this as fact , I am merely regurgitating the dozens of articles and MSM pages and Wikipedia articles that I have read combined with @FacelessPodcast ’s post

Oh yeah, I did mention that on my first post, I’m just thinking he may have been just flicking through things and taking things out of places and (based on what we know at least) there would be no way of knowing if he actually read it. Did he take out documents only about a particular thing? Are the ones he put in the toilet some specific ones, like for example only the ones belonging to one member of the family? That would heavily imply he could read them, as well as give some more information about motive. That may actually be the case, who knows. Either way, who would want to go through their documents and what was he looking for?

Idk, it just seems like he did a lot of things without rhyme or reason, so it’s hard for me to understand what is a clue and what isn’t. He could’ve also been a native Japanese speaker and still just messed with the papers without looking at them! To make things more confusing, a lot of the reporting on the case seems to vary from source to source too. For now I’m leaning towards “he just enjoyed leaving stuff all over the gaff and I have no idea who could it be anyway”.