Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

[FacelessPodcast]

@FacelessPodcast
The article states that the metropolitan police went to the Far East in this article dated Feb 2001 in relation to this case and the Slazenger shoes so call new Scotland Yard and ask to be put through to the major crime unit and make enquiries as to who went, which officers, and see if you can get their details to talk with them.

Unfortunately, the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department don't have a set up where I could just ring up and ask them for details. If only!

We know that 4,530 pairs were manufactured in Korea. And the article says an exclusive contract. So that almost sounds like they were only available in Korea? Problem is, we also know that same shoe was on sale in Japan (although not in the size shoe the killer wore). So, then I wonder if it was on sale anywhere else.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Hm, interesting! I wonder if they have something else that makes them think that he spoke Japanese. With what we know I’m honestly not convinced! Creating a folder sounds like something weird and pointless, something one may even accidentally do if you don’t know your way around a foreign computer. Do we know if the folder was named or had anything in it?

I honestly don’t have a theory either way, everything just seems to point to a different direction. I’m not sold on the military theory either, but I was just thinking: if military bases have curfews, maybe the perp was waiting around until he was able to come back in the morning. If he stayed in the house for a while that is.

Interesting post, Smkd. Thank you!

N0, we just know that he created a folder. That's the one thing, other than logging on, that we know for certain he did on the computer. In terms of him searching through documents, I know that early articles in the days after the murders, suggest he might have been looking for something specific. However, now we know that except for some money and the father's clothes, it seems as if he took nothing (how the police / relatives would know *exactly* what was in the house and whether he did in fact take something or not, I'm not sure).

I mean it's reasonable to conclude he probably did speak Japanese, at least on some level --even if he just had a limited amount, that wouldn't stop him looking at documents in the house-- I just don't think there's anything definitive that confirms it.

But I suppose the point remains, if you spoke NO Japanese, why would you even bother looking at these documents?

As for the military theory, it's not something I'm certain about either. But there are various connections which haven't been explained away. For one, if he has no connection whatsoever, we're left with the problem of him having sand from a US air base (closed to the general public). Curfew could well explain why he'd stay in the house when most other people would flee the scene!

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Re the DNA
Was that his DNA @evilwise ? I thought that was the DNA from the defecation tested for mitochondrial dna from mother therefore giving breakdown of this ? I could be wrong as I’ve read that much now but normal dna has around 19 pointers , much less with mitochondrial dna

Angleterre, I think they discerned his heritage via his blood. This is what ABC Australia say about it:

They have his blood, which revealed the killer was male and potentially mixed-race, most likely of Korean or Chinese heritage.

(Though why they leave out the word Japanese, I don't know -- the genetic markers were found common in 1 in 4 Korean, 1 in 10 Chinese versus 1 in 13 Japanese doesn't seem a HUGELY different number).

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Can I ask without having to trawl back through all the posts @FacelessPodcast if the DNA that they have of the offender is a mix of touch DNA and nuclear DNA as opposed to the mitochondrial dna ( obtained from him defecating ) which identifies his mothers line of ancestry?
And do we know /are we sure from what’s been reported that 100% accuracy of the DNA obtained at the scene is that of a male person and not a female? Thank you

I'm afraid I can't tell you, Angleterre. The methods they used are unclear. But I can tell you that the TMPD do confirm that the killer is male.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Oh yeah, I did mention that on my first post, I’m just thinking he may have been just flicking through things and taking things out of places and (based on what we know at least) there would be no way of knowing if he actually read it. Did he take out documents only about a particular thing? Are the ones he put in the toilet some specific ones, like for example only the ones belonging to one member of the family? That would heavily imply he could read them, as well as give some more information about motive. That may actually be the case, who knows. Either way, who would want to go through their documents and what was he looking for?

Idk, it just seems like he did a lot of things without rhyme or reason, so it’s hard for me to understand what is a clue and what isn’t. He could’ve also been a native Japanese speaker and still just messed with the papers without looking at them! To make things more confusing, a lot of the reporting on the case seems to vary from source to source too. For now I’m leaning towards “he just enjoyed leaving stuff all over the gaff and I have no idea who could it be anyway”.

Having been into this case for a decade, I feel totally the same way -- sometimes I lean towards one idea, but then I'll see 5 things that seem to counter it. From the few images I've seen of where the killer is searching, it doesn't necessarily seem as if he's doing this in a targeted, methodical way. I know, for example, professional burglars, will open drawers from the bottom upwards to save time. This seems far more like a fishing expedition. He leaves drawers where they fall etc.

 

[Smkd]

Having been into this case for a decade, I feel totally the same way -- sometimes I lean towards one idea, but then I'll see 5 things that seem to counter it. From the few images I've seen of where the killer is searching, it doesn't necessarily seem as if he's doing this in a targeted, methodical way. I know, for example, professional burglars, will open drawers from the bottom upwards to save time. This seems far more like a fishing expedition. He leaves drawers where they fall etc.

Woah, looking at that picture he truly went through most of what could be open. Do we know if the drawers had his blood on them? Perhaps part of it was him trying to find things to patch himself up too

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Woah, looking at that picture he truly went through most of what could be open. Do we know if the drawers had his blood on them? Perhaps part of it was him trying to find things to patch himself up too

It's quite possible that there was blood on them. As I understand it, patching himself up is one of the first things that he does after everyone is dead.

From these photos, it seems as if they're taken in such a way to eliminate gore from them (if you see the one of Mikio's body, for example, it doesn't seem like there's any blood around him but we know that can't be possible). So yeah, it's quite possible there were blood stains around the drawers. Especially as it's his hand that's injured. One of the things that he throws in the bath tub or the toilet is a bloody towel (his blood). So, it's quite possible that despite patching up, he also bled after (or he just used it in the process of patching up). In any case, I agree with you.

While it's possible that he was looking for something specific, it's also quite possible that he was just acting on impulse or curiosity.

 

[StarrChance]

Could he have been looking for tutoring papers to destroy, same for any computer records to delete?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Could he have been looking for tutoring papers to destroy, same for any computer records to delete?

A very interesting idea! That might well explain his search...

 

[Angleterre]

I'm afraid I can't tell you, Angleterre. The methods they used are unclear. But I can tell you that the TMPD do confirm that the killer is male.

Thank you @FacelessPodcast
Because of how quickly science In the field of DNA has evolved since the mid 90’s, the loci markers for DNA evidential and forensic proof has increased. 13 markers were set as sufficient proof beyond reasonable doubt and the U.K. and USA FBI and many other countries agreed on this . Then it was increased to 15 loci markers to ensure that the match was more than for example 1 in 100 million ( this taking it further away from LCN (low copy number) dna which is not as accurate and brings much more pooling /mix of sample matches - this is seen in mitochondrial dna and dna where there is insufficient to get a full sample. Then it went to 19 and now currently stands at 20 loci markers to state that it is beyond all reasonable doubt that the dna has been matched at 99.999% for example and I in 500 million on match - these are not accurate figs that I’m quoting, it’s just to give you an idea as to how accurate dna matches are with the more loci markers present. Generally speaking only multiple birth children who are identical twins/triplets etc and originate from one egg which splits and divides into however many offspring of the same sex , kept together in their only amniotic sac and sharing the placenta as opposed to fraternal whereby it’s just two eggs fertilised at the same time with their own placenta and amniotic sac. For identical twins, the DNA is the only time whereby the match is in most cases, exact , although as they grow , environmental factors etc may slightly add to DNA changes but overall the identical multiple births from the one split egg/fertilised embryo , will have virtually identical DNA.

 

[Angleterre]

Angleterre, I think they discerned his heritage via his blood. This is what ABC Australia say about it:

They have his blood, which revealed the killer was male and potentially mixed-race, most likely of Korean or Chinese heritage.

(Though why they leave out the word Japanese, I don't know -- the genetic markers were found common in 1 in 4 Korean, 1 in 10 Chinese versus 1 in 13 Japanese doesn't seem a HUGELY different number).

But you can’t determine heritage and ancestry from blood, that is determined from nuclear dna and more specifically mitochondrial dna. I will stand corrected if I am over simplifying and this is now feasible but it wasn’t in 2008 when I was involved with the forensic department and dna .

 

[Angleterre]

It's quite possible that there was blood on them. As I understand it, patching himself up is one of the first things that he does after everyone is dead.

From these photos, it seems as if they're taken in such a way to eliminate gore from them (if you see the one of Mikio's body, for example, it doesn't seem like there's any blood around him but we know that can't be possible). So yeah, it's quite possible there were blood stains around the drawers. Especially as it's his hand that's injured. One of the things that he throws in the bath tub or the toilet is a bloody towel (his blood). So, it's quite possible that despite patching up, he also bled after (or he just used it in the process of patching up). In any case, I agree with you.

While it's possible that he was looking for something specific, it's also quite possible that he was just acting on impulse or curiosity.

Potentially adding to the theory of being young chaotic immature?

 

[Angleterre]

Unfortunately, the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department don't have a set up where I could just ring up and ask them for details. If only!

We know that 4,530 pairs were manufactured in Korea. And the article says an exclusive contract. So that almost sounds like they were only available in Korea? Problem is, we also know that same shoe was on sale in Japan (although not in the size shoe the killer wore). So, then I wonder if it was on sale anywhere else.

I’m not talking about TMPD
I am talking about the British Metropolitan Police at Scotland Yard
They were sent out there to liaise with the Japanese over the footwear according to the article so call Scotland Yard and see if they are able to assist you

 

[Angleterre]

Oh yeah, I did mention that on my first post, I’m just thinking he may have been just flicking through things and taking things out of places and (based on what we know at least) there would be no way of knowing if he actually read it. Did he take out documents only about a particular thing? Are the ones he put in the toilet some specific ones, like for example only the ones belonging to one member of the family? That would heavily imply he could read them, as well as give some more information about motive. That may actually be the case, who knows. Either way, who would want to go through their documents and what was he looking for?

Idk, it just seems like he did a lot of things without rhyme or reason, so it’s hard for me to understand what is a clue and what isn’t. He could’ve also been a native Japanese speaker and still just messed with the papers without looking at them! To make things more confusing, a lot of the reporting on the case seems to vary from source to source too. For now I’m leaning towards “he just enjoyed leaving stuff all over the gaff and I have no idea who could it be anyway”.

Yes I agree with what you say and in particular about the varying sources and subsequent different reports that fall out of it

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I’m not talking about TMPD
I am talking about the British Metropolitan Police at Scotland Yard
They were sent out there to liaise with the Japanese over the footwear according to the article so call Scotland Yard and see if they are able to assist you

Are they? Where did you see that, when did this happen?

Wait, are you going off the article about the shoe? Because the Japanese newspaper would have been referring to the Toyko Metropolitan Police. Forgive me if I've gotten the wrong end of the stick here, Angleterre.

 

[Angleterre]

Are they? Where did you see that, when did this happen?

Wait, are you going off the article about the shoe? Because the Japanese newspaper would have been referring to the Toyko Metropolitan Police. Forgive me if I've gotten the wrong end of the stick here, Angleterre.

Ah my bad
Yes I was going off the article and another one I found that was similar which mentions the shoe being from the British brand Slazenger and the Metropolitan police were going out to liaise - but I thought it literally meant the Met as in London because of the British link
I didn’t realise that the Metropolitan police is another name for the Tokyo Police
My apologies

 

[evilwise]

But you can’t determine heritage and ancestry from blood, that is determined from nuclear dna and more specifically mitochondrial dna. I will stand corrected if I am over simplifying and this is now feasible but it wasn’t in 2008 when I was involved with the forensic department and dna .

Pretty sure blood has DNA in it

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Ah my bad
Yes I was going off the article and another one I found that was similar which mentions the shoe being from the British brand Slazenger and the Metropolitan police were going out to liaise - but I thought it literally meant the Met as in London because of the British link
I didn’t realise that the Metropolitan police is another name for the Tokyo Police
My apologies

No worries at all, Angleterre. That would have been very exciting for me!

 

[FacelessPodcast]

But you can’t determine heritage and ancestry from blood, that is determined from nuclear dna and more specifically mitochondrial dna. I will stand corrected if I am over simplifying and this is now feasible but it wasn’t in 2008 when I was involved with the forensic department and dna .

I am a dunce when it comes to science -- don't they also use saliva to determine ancestry? 23andMe etc.

Because there would have been saliva in the house as well as faeces, blood, and hair.

 

[Charlot123]

Dear @FacelessPodcast,

Thank you very much for this wealth of knowledge about Miyazawa’s murders. I found out about the case about a week ago, it is very tragic. I have a question, I linked a part of your post. Excuse me for cutting the part I needed for brevity; it is about “witnesses”.

Lastly, and perhaps most significantly. A man with a wounded hand or arm was spotted in
Tōbu-Nikkō Station (outside of Tokyo, around 2–3 hours north of Setagaya). He was patched up at the station but apparently the wound was so serious the bone was visible in his hand or arm. From what I’ve heard, this man was reluctant to seek medical attention at a hospital and station workers found it suspicious—they phoned the police. For whatever reason, I don’t think an officer was sent out immediately to intercept this man. Other versions of this sighting suggest it was at 5:25am and he himself actually went into the station seeking medical attention. Other versions say it was 5:26pm and the man was travelling on one of the trains. His bone were visible in this version too.

Here is my question. If, and it seems so, Tokyo police considered this episode most significantly related to the murder case, surely the station workers who helped the injured man could tell if he was a native Japanese speaker? He refused to go to the hospital, he should have said enough.

It would rule out some questions regarding the assailant having cursory knowledge of Japanese, or even being fluent, but non-native, speaker, as opposed to Japanese being his mother tongue.