Jason Young to get new trial #2

[MyBelle]

Thanks. So there is testimony that the child had blood on her pyjamas, meaning that she was most likely wearing the same pyjamas she had on when she left the blood smears on the interior of the bathroom door ... unless she stepped, or sat, in the blood twice ... once before and once after she was changed. The simplest explanation is that she wore one pair of pyjamas on the night of the murder.

If she didn't change clothes, the whole theory about being taken away to be washed and given clean clothes just doesn't fit with the timeline or the evidence. What is the basis for the theory that the child was taken away from the house ... Meredith's keys on the car, the child's bloody pyjamas? Are there photos of the child's feet? Are there samples from nails, hands, and feet of child? We've been told that the child's feet were clean ... so where are the photos and where is the evidence. Surely that was documented ... given that it's a point of contention.

I think the basis of the theory the child was removed from the house is because she was found shockingly clean. The evidence points to her pj's being washed and placed back on her because Agent Holley's analysis showed blood that had soaked through on the seat but wasn't visible.

imo, there is no way she could have remained shockingly clean if she was left totally alone with her mother's bloody body in the same room.

The evidence shows either the child was removed from the entire scene or she remained in the home with someone preventing her from being near her mother's body.

I don't believe any toddler would place a doll next to her mom's silent body and then totally ignore her mother from that point on. Any parent who has wanted to sleep in on a Saturday morning knows a toddler's focus is on trying to get Mommy and or Daddy to wake-up until they either get up or let toddler crawl into bed with them.

I also don't believe CY witnessed the murder. She went to bed and from Shelly's testimony, she was finally asleep before Shelly left the house that night. So CY was used to her parents having other people in the house AND yet her parents maintained a routine for her and their guests were a comfortable part of that routine. Jason most definitely knew his child's routine.

If Jason had been the killer, the first thing he would have done when he went upstairs would be to close the door to CY's bedroom. And after Michelle hit the floor would be to check on CY to see if she was still asleep. If she had awakened--he would have returned her to her own bed. If she had become bloody herself, he would have carried her into the bathroom, cleaned her and placed her into her own bed. Placing her on his side of the bed when neither he or her mother was in it was not part of her routine.

If Jason was the killer, the last thing JY would have allowed would be for his daughter to walk around the bloody corpse to place a doll there because he would know there was no way he could later prevent CY from mentioning this fact when speaking with LE or from telling LE what she witnessed.

Jason wasn't present when Michelle and CY were found. Jason had absolutely no control over whether LE would interview CY or what evidence would be collected.

I just can't get to a conclusion of guilty in this case.

 

[MyBelle]

Also, is there any logical reason that JY would have put her in that bed in that room with the body? No way. The only way JY is involved is if he opts not to confine her safely in her room for no known reason so that she is free to roam and then she herself chooses to sleep there or hide there or whatever. (assuming she can even climb up on that bed) Wouldn't one expect to find her in the play area or her bedroom or getting into Halloween candy in the kitchen? The story about her being found in the master bed is very odd, imo.

BBM. ITA. My 2 1/2-year-old grandson sometimes naps in his mommy & daddy's bed but only if one of them lies there with him until he falls asleep. But that's only nap time. If they did that at night, he'd never want to sleep in his own bed.

There is no logic in the argument CY washed off herself in the bathroom. It would be impossible for her to do that at the sink and then leave the bathroom without walking and smearing the bloody footprints she had just left on the ceramic floor.

JMO

 

[otto]

BBM. ITA. My 2 1/2-year-old grandson sometimes naps in his mommy & daddy's bed but only if one of them lies there with him until he falls asleep. But that's only nap time. If they did that at night, he'd never want to sleep in his own bed.

There is no logic in the argument CY washed off herself in the bathroom. It would be impossible for her to do that at the sink and then leave the bathroom without walking and smearing the bloody footprints she had just left on the ceramic floor.

JMO

I was thinking that she had blood on her feet and that she tried to wash off the blood. That made the blood watery, which is why the blood is smeared on the door, and then the remaining watery blood wore off as she walked on the carpet.

 

[MyBelle]

I was thinking that she had blood on her feet and that she tried to wash off the blood. That made the blood watery, which is why the blood is smeared on the door, and then the remaining watery blood wore off as she walked on the carpet.

A toddler would make a huge mess if they were trying to wash off their feet. They can barely reach into a sink with their hands while standing on a step-stool. I doubt any of the footprints on that bathroom floor would have remained so distinctive if the element of water had been introduced by a toddler.

Plus, there would have been signs of prints going out of the bathroom. All of them point inward. It almost seems to have been staged.

I'm also trying to figure out how Meredith even saw those prints on the bathroom floor as she climbed the stairs. It was an interior bath so no windows. I don't believe there was testimony that the bathroom light was left on. To see prints on a floor would require both light and the person being above the level of the floor.

 

[sunshine05]

Once again, if JY did leave his room , he lucked out again. No one noticed his door ajar, even though the night clerk/auditor went to his room twice. Good thing there was no fire or any kind of emergency evacuation or any kind of incoming calls coming to his room.

Yes, and good thing the door didn't get bumped shut by the night clerk when he put the newspaper on the door knob. The alibi would have been ruined if he was unable to sneak back into his hotel room that morning.

 

[JusticeFever]

An additional reason LE thought CY could have been taken from her home, is because of the description of the car Cindy Beaver saw at the end of the Young's driveway around 5:30 am with 2 people in it.
The car could have been Michelle's Lexus.

 

[JusticeFever]

Yes, and good thing the door didn't get bumped shut by the night clerk when he put the newspaper on the door knob. The alibi would have been ruined if he was unable to sneak back into his hotel room that morning.

I never thought of that!! How in the world would JY have got back into his room!! It would have been all over.

 

[sunshine05]

I never thought of that!! How in the world would JY have got back into his room!! It would have been all over.

Exactly. What poor planning. Is it at all feasible to plan a horrendous crime and to ensure one will never be a suspect, to set up a perfect alibi --- one that consists of being 100% dependent on ---

A hotel room door remaining ajar all night long --- if anything happens, it gets nudged shut -- alibi is ruined --- plan is a failure.

A hotel exterior door remaining propped open all night long. What are the odds of a door remaining propped open? Would anyone truly expect that to remain with so many people coming and going?

A camera remaining unplugged all night long --- as if the clerk wouldn't notice it and simply plug it back in. Plus the fact that he has to pass 3-4 or more additional cameras to get back to his hotel room.

Hoping no car trouble occurs or a speeding ticket or running out of fuel. (The State would have you believe that this almost occurred had it not been for 4 Brothers being open at 5:30AM). Let's create a scene there to be sure someone remembers me.

Hoping he's not captured on any cameras entering the hotel as he would certainly be wearing different clothing. If he's caught, alibi is ruined.

Ability to stay awake for 42 straight hours and visit with customers after driving around all night, committing a crime, hiding evidence, etc.

 

[JusticeFever]

^^^^Jason was a member of the Hilton HHonors Rewards so he knew the customs of having the hotel receipt placed under his door in the middle of the night and a newspaper on the doorknob, I don't understand how Keith Hicks could go there 2 times and not notice his door ajar and unlocked.
And, many things could have happened on this roundtrip back to Raleigh, a ticket, construction delays, a flat tire, so. again he was lucky,
And, as for the alleged stop in King, North Carolina, I don't have to tell you how much I think that never happened. Counting back 45 miles or 45 minutes as they canvassed the Interstate and lucked out with Gracie.
And, no I don't think she lied, and no I don't think LE did anything wrong other than to not show her a photo lineup.
I also have to hear the testimony about 4 Bros, were there cameras there at all, or just not working that am?

 

[tarheellvr]

Also, is there any logical reason that JY would have put her in that bed in that room with the body? No way. The only way JY is involved is if he opts not to confine her safely in her room for no known reason so that she is free to roam and then she herself chooses to sleep there or hide there or whatever. (assuming she can even climb up on that bed) Wouldn't one expect to find her in the play area or her bedroom or getting into Halloween candy in the kitchen? The story about her being found in the master bed is very odd, imo.

How can anyone ascertain whether JY put her in her room or not? It's obvious she was in the bathroom for a while. "Staging" of her footprints in the bathroom took time and why on God's green earth would a random killer do this?? He wouldn't.

As for Michelle's bed, my children could easily climb in our bed at 2 and we had a high bed at that, one requiring a 18" bed skirt and even that not completely touching the floor. I have taught children, I have been around my own and many other children and most of them are like "little monkeys" and can climb places we never thought possible. To assume she was put in bed is IMO to assume she couldn't get there herself....just not true.

As to the stairs, my children were taught stairs are dangerous and were taught not to go downstairs until we got up. My children and others I've been around would prefer to be on the same floor as their parents when they get up anyway. My children would get up before us and play for periods of time in their rooms or their bathrooms AND climb into bed with us bringing their "stuff" with them.

Also a favorite place to play WAS our bed......many, many, many Barbies, dolls, trucks, cars, Fisher Price Little People, videos, dvds, shoes,, clothes etc were usually in our bed.

As far as Cassidy's pajamas, it's always easier to buy 2-3 pairs of the same pajamas. I quickly learned that either the top or bottoms could get wet, food on them, etc and having matching pieces of the same kind was easiest and also looked the best. IMO Mama's buying pajamas do this all the time.

I think JY was only concerned with keeping Cassidy out of the way. After all he slaughtered her Mother and brother and left her there for HOURS with her Mother's body. I guess he did care some as he was very anxious for Meredith to go over to the house and discover Michelle's body. I think he thought he could quietly enter the house, knowing Mr G wouldn't bark at him, and quickly kill Michelle with Cassidy never waking up. His plan changed however and he was faced with dealing with an awake little girl.

 

[Boodles]

How can anyone ascertain whether JY put her in her room or not? It's obvious she was in the bathroom for a while. "Staging" of her footprints in the bathroom took time and why on God's green earth would a random killer do this?? He wouldn't.

As for Michelle's bed, my children could easily climb in our bed at 2 and we had a high bed at that, one requiring a 18" bed skirt and even that not completely touching the floor. I have taught children, I have been around my own and many other children and most of them are like "little monkeys" and can climb places we never thought possible. To assume she was put in bed is IMO to assume she couldn't get there herself....just not true.

As to the stairs, my children were taught stairs are dangerous and were taught not to go downstairs until we got up. My children and others I've been around would prefer to be on the same floor as their parents when they get up anyway. My children would get up before us and play for periods of time in their rooms or their bathrooms AND climb into bed with us bringing their "stuff" with them.

Also a favorite place to play WAS our bed......many, many, many Barbies, dolls, trucks, cars, Fisher Price Little People, videos, dvds, shoes,, clothes etc were usually in our bed.

As far as Cassidy's pajamas, it's always easier to buy 2-3 pairs of the same pajamas. I quickly learned that either the top or bottoms could get wet, food on them, etc and having matching pieces of the same kind was easiest and also looked the best. IMO Mama's buying pajamas do this all the time.

I think JY was only concerned with keeping Cassidy out of the way. After all he slaughtered her Mother and brother and left her there for HOURS with her Mother's body. I guess he did care some as he was very anxious for Meredith to go over to the house and discover Michelle's body. I think he thought he could quietly enter the house, knowing Mr G wouldn't bark at him, and quickly kill Michelle with Cassidy never waking up. His plan changed however and he was faced with dealing with an awake little girl.

:goodpost:

bbm. And a wife he was intent on murdering while having an "alibi" of being almost but not quite too far away to have committed the murder, who so inconveniently woke up to being beaten to death. Inconvenient because it took more effort to slaughter her, and she made noise and woke the child up. How dare she! That just made him hate her even more. IMO :seeya:

 

[MyBelle]

I never thought of that!! How in the world would JY have got back into his room!! It would have been all over.

Exactly. At a minimum, the clerk would have noticed the ajar door and would have testified about it.

It is yet another in quite a long list of factors over which Jason had no direct control.

JMO

 

[JusticeFever]

Exactly. At a minimum, the clerk would have noticed the ajar door and would have testified about it.

It is yet another in quite a long list of factors over which Jason had no direct control.

JMO

Exactly, and the plan gets dumber and dumber as it goes along!! We are to believe either CY woke up, did not wake up, was drugged, and/or taken from the home! You can not leave a 2 year old child alone for all that time, she would be hysterical by the time anyone found her. And, why didn't she have some comfort items in the bed with her to keep her busy, such as a book or a game!! Why in the world did she have her shoes, of all things?

 

[otto]

Exactly. At a minimum, the clerk would have noticed the ajar door and would have testified about it.

It is yet another in quite a long list of factors over which Jason had no direct control.

JMO

I always wondered how prosecutors could argue that the hotel room door was open (automatic lock when closed) through the night and that it did not pop open when the newspaper was placed on the door handle, or the receipt was placed under the door. It was suggested that Jason may have rigged the door by placing something between the lock and the door frame. I wonder if investigators tried rigging the door during their investigation and what they discovered.

 

[oenophile]

How can anyone ascertain whether JY put her in her room or not? It's obvious she was in the bathroom for a while. "Staging" of her footprints in the bathroom took time and why on God's green earth would a random killer do this?? He wouldn't.

As for Michelle's bed, my children could easily climb in our bed at 2 and we had a high bed at that, one requiring a 18" bed skirt and even that not completely touching the floor. I have taught children, I have been around my own and many other children and most of them are like "little monkeys" and can climb places we never thought possible. To assume she was put in bed is IMO to assume she couldn't get there herself....just not true.

As to the stairs, my children were taught stairs are dangerous and were taught not to go downstairs until we got up. My children and others I've been around would prefer to be on the same floor as their parents when they get up anyway. My children would get up before us and play for periods of time in their rooms or their bathrooms AND climb into bed with us bringing their "stuff" with them.

Also a favorite place to play WAS our bed......many, many, many Barbies, dolls, trucks, cars, Fisher Price Little People, videos, dvds, shoes,, clothes etc were usually in our bed.

As far as Cassidy's pajamas, it's always easier to buy 2-3 pairs of the same pajamas. I quickly learned that either the top or bottoms could get wet, food on them, etc and having matching pieces of the same kind was easiest and also looked the best. IMO Mama's buying pajamas do this all the time.

I agree with all of this, and it simply doesn't make sense that she was cleaned up at all. It is much more reasonable that she slept through the entire thing, and only discovered the body later upon waking up. And that the blood evidence is consistent with her actions of the morning. Specifically, there was evidence of blood on her feet, blood in her shoes, blood on her PJ's. etc.

I think JY was only concerned with keeping Cassidy out of the way. After all he slaughtered her Mother and brother and left her there for HOURS with her Mother's body. I guess he did care some as he was very anxious for Meredith to go over to the house and discover Michelle's body. I think he thought he could quietly enter the house, knowing Mr G wouldn't bark at him, and quickly kill Michelle with Cassidy never waking up. His plan changed however and he was faced with dealing with an awake little girl.

What doesn't follow is the conclusion that JY did this. The rest of this assumes that JY committed the crime. But the hypothesis in the rest of the post doesn't lead to JY, nor does it necessarily lead it away from JY. It must be assumed that he did it first, then attempt to fit the evidence into that narrative. Thus this last part is invalidated if you haven't already decided his guilt (which granted you already did in a previous post).

 

[oenophile]

:goodpost:

bbm. And a wife he was intent on murdering while having an "alibi" of being almost but not quite too far away to have committed the murder, who so inconveniently woke up to being beaten to death. Inconvenient because it took more effort to slaughter her, and she made noise and woke the child up. How dare she! That just made him hate her even more. IMO :seeya:

Again, this assumes that he is guilty. If you assume that he is innocent until proven guilty, then it is rather moot.

 

[otto]

Again, this assumes that he is guilty. If you assume that he is innocent until proven guilty, then it is rather moot.

I think that is the problem with the entire investigation. Investigators assumed that Jason was guilty, and then looked for anything that they could use to bolster that theory. For example, a lot of people have left a hose dripping after cutting the grass, but in this case, the dripping hose is not just a dripping hose, it's an outdoor shower for use in the middle of the night in November ... and that's why the hose was dripping. Nevermind that Jason lived at the house and that blood from Michelle in the drain means nothing ... Jason showered outside in the dark in November after committing murder. Nevermind that there was no evidence of blood near the dripping hose, the blood simply seeped into the dirt and became undetectable.

The fact that there were two interactions with the hotel room door during the night, and the door remained locked (did not open), doesn't deter investigators from their tunnel vision. They simply conclude that the eye-witness to the locked door is wrong. Conversely, they conclude that the gas station attendant, a woman with life long brain trauma and documented memory problems, is a good witness because she confirmed that the man in the picture (Jason) is 5 feet tall.

 

[sunshine05]

I agree with all of this, and it simply doesn't make sense that she was cleaned up at all. It is much more reasonable that she slept through the entire thing, and only discovered the body later upon waking up. And that the blood evidence is consistent with her actions of the morning. Specifically, there was evidence of blood on her feet, blood in her shoes, blood on her PJ's. etc.

The reason this doesn't work is because there is NO trail of bloody footprints. There are none of her footprints from the body TO the bathroom so she couldn't have woken up, found her mother, stepped in the blood and then went into the bathroom. She had to be carried. Does that make sense?

 

[otto]

The reason this doesn't work is because there is NO trail of bloody footprints. There are none of her footprints from the body TO the bathroom so she couldn't have woken up, found her mother, stepped in the blood and then went into the bathroom. She had to be carried. Does that make sense?

I'm pretty sure that there was testimony about blood on the carpet between the master bedroom and the bathroom. That stood out for me because it refuted all the claims about there being no blood on the hallway carpet.

 

[sunshine05]

How can anyone ascertain whether JY put her in her room or not? It's obvious she was in the bathroom for a while. "Staging" of her footprints in the bathroom took time and why on God's green earth would a random killer do this?? He wouldn't.

As for Michelle's bed, my children could easily climb in our bed at 2 and we had a high bed at that, one requiring a 18" bed skirt and even that not completely touching the floor. I have taught children, I have been around my own and many other children and most of them are like "little monkeys" and can climb places we never thought possible. To assume she was put in bed is IMO to assume she couldn't get there herself....just not true.

As to the stairs, my children were taught stairs are dangerous and were taught not to go downstairs until we got up. My children and others I've been around would prefer to be on the same floor as their parents when they get up anyway. My children would get up before us and play for periods of time in their rooms or their bathrooms AND climb into bed with us bringing their "stuff" with them.

Also a favorite place to play WAS our bed......many, many, many Barbies, dolls, trucks, cars, Fisher Price Little People, videos, dvds, shoes,, clothes etc were usually in our bed.

As far as Cassidy's pajamas, it's always easier to buy 2-3 pairs of the same pajamas. I quickly learned that either the top or bottoms could get wet, food on them, etc and having matching pieces of the same kind was easiest and also looked the best. IMO Mama's buying pajamas do this all the time.

I think JY was only concerned with keeping Cassidy out of the way. After all he slaughtered her Mother and brother and left her there for HOURS with her Mother's body. I guess he did care some as he was very anxious for Meredith to go over to the house and discover Michelle's body. I think he thought he could quietly enter the house, knowing Mr G wouldn't bark at him, and quickly kill Michelle with Cassidy never waking up. His plan changed however and he was faced with dealing with an awake little girl.

Re: staging --- I don't think anyone random staged the prints. [modsnip] . She was sure to mention them in the 911 call even though it does nothing to help her sister. Could she even have seen them walking up the stairwell as she claims? There are no windows in that bathroom so unless the light was on, it would have probably been too dark to see them.

Based on the photos of the master bedroom, it does not look like they encouraged C. to play in there. No toys are present.

I believe they had the child-proof doorknob on her door to avoid her going downstairs when she woke up - meaning she wasn't trained to stay upstairs. Why JY would leave that door wide open is a huge mystery that simply makes no sense when he could have securely contained her in her bedroom.

re: several pairs of pajamas the same --- that doesn't explain the fact that blood soaked through the pajamas as it was found on the inside and outside of the fabric. I'm going to review that testimony again. It is puzzling because no one observed blood on her pajamas.

If Mr. G was in the house, why is there no evidence to support that? Where did the dog go when MF walked out of the house? She just let him wander away without containing him in the fenced yard? None of the responders saw the dog. No bloody paw prints anywhere in the house. I think that means the odds of him being in the house are slim to none.