Jason Young to get new trial #4

[sunshine05]

Totally agree. So the Youngs made a preemptive strike. They grabbed CY and took her to Brevard. Away from her aunt and grandmother who she had spent more time with her. The best thing for CY after losing her mother. Just whisk her away and take her to the mountains. Ummm, okay.

What was JY supposed to do? He had nowhere to live in the Raleigh area. Of course he's going to stay with his family in Brevard. Who wouldn't under circumstances like this?

Add to that the accusations against him from LF and it makes no sense for him to stay around.

 

[Glenn101]

The X factor? I've never seen or read about him being convicted due to his indiscretions. Did I miss this?

Nor have I seen where he was convicted because he is unlikeable.

His infidelities are relevant because it points to his state of mind prior to his wife's murder. He sent an email to GC , just 2 months shy of his wife's murder, declaring his undying love for her. He chastised her for "visiting" him in his dreams and causing him to lie awake for the rest of the night. One would assume he was lying awake next to his pregnant wife with his toddler in the next room. But he wanted to stay married and he loved his wife? Really? We are to believe that he was a solid husband and yearning to make his marriage work?

I honestly knew nothing about the shoeshine kit. Just picked up on that when reviewing JY's testimony. Was curious about the chain of custody, that's all. JY's DNA was found on the wall outside of his closet. Everyone said that was old and not in blood. Let's apply that standard to the DNA on the shoeshine box and the jewelry box. Neither were in blood right? Who knows how old that DNA is? Yes it is unknown but it could be anyone in the past.

The same applies to the cig butts. No way to know how long they had been there. Does not in any way infer that this person was there that night.

MOO.

No one would ever admit that they convicted anyone because they did not like them. However, just reading comments on this board (and others I have visited) is eye opening about how many people view Jason's guilt or innocence and the reasons they give.

I actually agree with you about the DNA on the cigarette butts, the shoeshine kit, and the jewelry box. We do not know when it was deposited. However, it was male DNA if I recall correctly, which would eliminate Michelle. So, the question remains, what was male DNA unrelated to Jason doing on a shoeshine kit in his closet and on Michelle's jewelry box. The cigarette butts raise a question because one was found in the garage and another found in the doorway that leads from the garage into the kitchen. One would think that friends of Michelle and Jason would have enough respect to discard their cigarette butts in the trash or other more suitable disposal medium. However, that is not a given.

The DNA results of the hair that was clutched in Michelle's hand has not been given much consideration that I have been able to read. You did not address that at all. There is should be no doubt when that hair was introduced onto the scene. Normally, if there was a suspect in a murder case and DNA from a hair that was retrieved from the victim's hand did not match the suspect, that suspect would usually be considered as at least very doubtful if not exonerated of that crime. I would think that people would really want to be looking for the "donor" of that particular hair.

Here is one place I found information about the cigarette butts and the hair.
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/story/9732796/

On the eyewitness testimony of Gracie Dahms. She said that she remembered Jason because he cursed at her. However, I do not find that reasoning to be compelling. There already has been other posters who have noted that there are documented cases of people being falsely convicted based upon mistaken eyewitness testimony. I would add to this a note that even a case as traumatic as rape where one would think that the suspects features would be emblazoned in a persons mind would be an indicator that the victim would be able to render a reliable eyewitness account. But such is not always the case. For instance, there is the case of Henry James who spent 30 years in prison because of eyewitness testimony from the victim, only to be exonerated by DNA evidence.
The information can be found at http://www.ip-no.org/mistaken-eyewitness-identification.

And another case of mistaken eyewitness testimony:http://www.afterinnocence.net/jenstory.html

I try really hard not to become emotionally invested in a case one way or the other and try to maintain an open mind. I still am open, to further evidence. But, under the "presumed innocent" doctrine that I strive to follow rigorously, I have not been able to any evidence, singly or in totality, circumstantial or direct, that would lead me to the conclusion that Jason committed that crime.

Glenn

 

[sunshine05]

Glenn - The hair in her hand was her own. The only unidentified hair at the scene was found on the wedding picture frame. It had been forcibly removed and it was male and it didn't match any of the profiles it was compared with from people who were known to have been in the home.

The DNA in the closet and on the jewelry box didn't belong there and indicates to me that it likely belongs to the killer. The one thing that has never been answered - does the DNA from the medicine dropper in CY's room, the DNA from the jewelry box and the DNA from the closet match? Are all profiles from the same source?

 

[citygirl]

I've stated before that I thought CY should be with her father and I don't blame him for moving to his home town. What transpired after that was the problem. It's clear that the Fishers had spent many days with CY. In fact, that was one of the defendant's beefs. She was accustomed to seeing them. MOO.

ETA. This is in response to Sunshines post above.

 

[sunshine05]

I've stated before that I thought CY should be with her father and I don't blame him for moving to his home town. What transpired after that was the problem. It's clear that the Fishers had spent many days with CY. In fact, that was one of the defendant's beefs. She was accustomed to seeing them. MOO.

ETA. This is in response to Sunshines post above.

LF lived in NY so she didn't see CY that much. MF was working full time so she wasn't seeing her as often anymore either. I don't believe it was damaging to move away from them. She was surrounded by JY's family who loved her and she was with her father.

 

[citygirl]

LF lived in NY so she didn't see CY that much. MF was working full time so she wasn't seeing her as often anymore either. I don't believe it was damaging to move away from them. She was surrounded by JY's family who loved her and she was with her father.

When LF came she stayed for weeks at a time. Read the emails and listen to LF's testimony. [modsnip] I have no doubt that the defendant's family didn't love CY and I am sure she got tender, loving care. But she didn't see them as often as the Fishers. The defendant's mother wasn't staying at the house for extended visits. And the defendant couldn't stand his MIL. I understand all that. It is what it is. I don't believe that CY was kept away from the Fishers to protect CY. It was to protect the defendant. MOO.

 

[citygirl]

Glenn - The hair in her hand was her own. The only unidentified hair at the scene was found on the wedding picture frame. It had been forcibly removed and it was male and it didn't match any of the profiles it was compared with from people who were known to have been in the home.

The DNA in the closet and on the jewelry box didn't belong there and indicates to me that it likely belongs to the killer. The one thing that has never been answered - does the DNA from the medicine dropper in CY's room, the DNA from the jewelry box and the DNA from the closet match? Are all profiles from the same source?

What was the chain of custody on the wedding picture frame and the cigarette butts?

 

[citygirl]

I'm pretty sure she said he was just teasing in the second trial. A bunch of people were spreading rumors earlier in the case that she had to change her flight to wait for it to pass, but they were wrong.

Oddly enough that came out in testimony from Shelly Schaad. MY came to the airport to pick up Shelly and her husband after their honeymoon. Well, well, lo and behold , it wasn't rumor after all. MY told SS they were waiting for the rings to pass. It's up to you whether to believe Shelly under oath OR the defendant. MOO.

 

[Glenn101]

Glenn - The hair in her hand was her own. The only unidentified hair at the scene was found on the wedding picture frame. It had been forcibly removed and it was male and it didn't match any of the profiles it was compared with from people who were known to have been in the home.

The DNA in the closet and on the jewelry box didn't belong there and indicates to me that it likely belongs to the killer. The one thing that has never been answered - does the DNA from the medicine dropper in CY's room, the DNA from the jewelry box and the DNA from the closet match? Are all profiles from the same source?

Sunshine05, can you provide me with a link to that information. I have been listening to the testimony of Michelle Hannon detailing the DNA profiles that she obtained from different hair roots. It was my impression that they all came from the same group of hairs that were found in Michelle Young's hand. It was state exhibit 47E, which contained a mixture. The predominant DNA profile was not from any of the standards that Michelle was given in regards to this case.This information comes beginning around the 14 minute mark of her testimony. It can be found at http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/video/9733453/

Update: I found the information in Jennifer Remy's testimony. She is an expert on hair and fiber analysis. I stand corrected on that point. Thanks.

I have been wondering if any of those profiles from the cigarette butts, the shoeshine kit, and the jewelry box were ever compared, myself, and if they were, what were the results.

Thanks,
Glenn

 

[JusticeFever]

Sunshine05, can you provide me with a link to that information. I have been listening to the testimony of Michelle Hannon detailing the DNA profiles that she obtained from different hair roots. It was my impression that they all came from the same group of hairs that were found in Michelle Young's hand. It was state exhibit 47E, which contained a mixture. The predominant DNA profile was not from any of the standards that Michelle was given in regards to this case.This information comes beginning around the 14 minute mark of her testimony. It can be found at http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/video/9733453/

Update: I found the information in Jennifer Remy's testimony. She is an expert on hair and fiber analysis. I stand corrected on that point. Thanks.

I have been wondering if any of those profiles from the cigarette butts, the shoeshine kit, and the jewelry box were ever compared, myself, and if they were, what were the results.

Thanks,
Glenn

Did you find what you were looking for?
I am going to finish and post the list of discrepancies in the gas station attendant's testimony from Trial 1 and Trial 2 sometime this week.
We should hear something about the state's plans this month or next....

 

[Glenn101]

Did you find what you were looking for?
I am going to finish and post the list of discrepancies in the gas station attendant's testimony from Trial 1 and Trial 2 sometime this week.
We should hear something about the state's plans this month or next....

Yes, I found that the hair sample that did not match Jason Young did indeed come from the picture, and that it indeed had been forcibly removed from the donor's head. It is not the almost positive evidence that I thought it was, but still evidence of someone other than Jason or Michelle being in that room, although the time or the donor has yet to be determined.

I went back and listened to Detective Spivey's testimony and learned that the Four Brothers receipts showed a gas purchase and a cash purchase at 5:19, a cash (no gas) purchase at 5:26, a gas purchase at 5:27, two cash purchases at 5:28, and two cash purchases at 5:31. It seems that the receipts did not print the seconds. But it does seem that Gracie would have been pretty busy right about the time Jason would have finished drawing his gas and getting back on the road. A person at a moderately paced pump can draw seven gallons of gas in less than forty-five seconds (personal experience). I assume that the receipt is printed when the transaction is completed. That would put the driver leaving right about the time that Gracie was waiting on two other customers.

After listening to detective Spivey's testimony, there is something that puzzles me a bit. There were several gas and no gas purchases made during that period of time. The defense attorney went over the purchases with detective Spivey and gave the dollars and cents of those purchases. The defense attorney noted that there was a gas purchase at 5:19 for ten dollars. He did not note any cents. He also noted the purchase at 5:27 for fifteen dollars. Again, he did not mention any cents. This would lead me to believe that in both cases, the pump was set to cut off at those numbers.
I think that we have all experienced paying cash for gasoline and having it gush in until it gets close to the amount paid for then slowing to an agonizingly slow crawl until it gets to the exact amount. No overruns. It does not make sense that anyone would pay twenty dollars for gas then take the time to put in exactly fifteen dollars worth of gas. I really wish that copies of those receipts were available for us to look at.

Glenn

 

[sunshine05]

I went back and listened to Detective Spivey's testimony and learned that the Four Brothers receipts showed a gas purchase and a cash purchase at 5:19, a cash (no gas) purchase at 5:26, a gas purchase at 5:27, two cash purchases at 5:28, and two cash purchases at 5:31. It seems that the receipts did not print the seconds. But it does seem that Gracie would have been pretty busy right about the time Jason would have finished drawing his gas and getting back on the road. A person at a moderately paced pump can draw seven gallons of gas in less than forty-five seconds (personal experience). I assume that the receipt is printed when the transaction is completed. That would put the driver leaving right about the time that Gracie was waiting on two other customers.

After listening to detective Spivey's testimony, there is something that puzzles me a bit. There were several gas and no gas purchases made during that period of time. The defense attorney went over the purchases with detective Spivey and gave the dollars and cents of those purchases. The defense attorney noted that there was a gas purchase at 5:19 for ten dollars. He did not note any cents. He also noted the purchase at 5:27 for fifteen dollars. Again, he did not mention any cents. This would lead me to believe that in both cases, the pump was set to cut off at those numbers.
I think that we have all experienced paying cash for gasoline and having it gush in until it gets close to the amount paid for then slowing to an agonizingly slow crawl until it gets to the exact amount. No overruns. It does not make sense that anyone would pay twenty dollars for gas then take the time to put in exactly fifteen dollars worth of gas. I really wish that copies of those receipts were available for us to look at.

Glenn

Excellent observation. That makes a lot of sense! If a person is in a big hurry, why are they going to slow the pump down to get $15 of gas to the exact penny when they just gave the cashier a $20? Not logical at all!

 

[SStarr33]

Excellent observation. That makes a lot of sense! If a person is in a big hurry, why are they going to slow the pump down to get $15 of gas to the exact penny when they just gave the cashier a $20? Not logical at all!

It WAS a great observation. Another mark against Gracie. SMH.

 

[JusticeFever]

The most important thing to remember about Gracie's "identification" of JY, is that she was shown 2 photos, one right after the other, one of the white SUV, and then one of Jason.
Sher never volunteered any information on her own, and she never said he was driving a white SUV until they asked her.

 

[JusticeFever]

I plan on doing the same with the 3 witnesses from Raleigh.

 

[SteelerGirl43]

Yes, I found that the hair sample that did not match Jason Young did indeed come from the picture, and that it indeed had been forcibly removed from the donor's head. It is not the almost positive evidence that I thought it was, but still evidence of someone other than Jason or Michelle being in that room, although the time or the donor has yet to be determined.

I went back and listened to Detective Spivey's testimony and learned that the Four Brothers receipts showed a gas purchase and a cash purchase at 5:19, a cash (no gas) purchase at 5:26, a gas purchase at 5:27, two cash purchases at 5:28, and two cash purchases at 5:31. It seems that the receipts did not print the seconds. But it does seem that Gracie would have been pretty busy right about the time Jason would have finished drawing his gas and getting back on the road. A person at a moderately paced pump can draw seven gallons of gas in less than forty-five seconds (personal experience). I assume that the receipt is printed when the transaction is completed. That would put the driver leaving right about the time that Gracie was waiting on two other customers.

After listening to detective Spivey's testimony, there is something that puzzles me a bit. There were several gas and no gas purchases made during that period of time. The defense attorney went over the purchases with detective Spivey and gave the dollars and cents of those purchases. The defense attorney noted that there was a gas purchase at 5:19 for ten dollars. He did not note any cents. He also noted the purchase at 5:27 for fifteen dollars. Again, he did not mention any cents. This would lead me to believe that in both cases, the pump was set to cut off at those numbers.
I think that we have all experienced paying cash for gasoline and having it gush in until it gets close to the amount paid for then slowing to an agonizingly slow crawl until it gets to the exact amount. No overruns. It does not make sense that anyone would pay twenty dollars for gas then take the time to put in exactly fifteen dollars worth of gas. I really wish that copies of those receipts were available for us to look at.

Glenn

And none of these people saw JY show his behind in the store..... WOW!!!! Justice Fever wasnt it you who said Gracie claimed no cars were there at that time???? So all those people were there but no cars?? How did they get there?? Im sorry with all those people in the store or at the store someone should have seen him..... Yet no one has come fwd.....

 

[JusticeFever]

And none of these people saw JY show his behind in the store..... WOW!!!! Justice Fever wasnt it you who said Gracie claimed no cars were there at that time???? So all those people were there but no cars?? How did they get there?? Im sorry with all those people in the store or at the store someone should have seen him..... Yet no one has come fwd.....

Yes, she was really mixed up on this one, because she said that there were no other cars there, and even if that just meant at the pumps, we know that it is not true......it can't be.
And, I agree with you about no one else in the store that am, coming forward and I have asked that question many times. Even if just one of those purchases had been a credit card, didn't LE try to
find that person and ask them some questions? This was a MURDER case....
To me, this has the same amount reasoning of making surveillance videos to find the mystery customer but never showing them to Gracie. The amount of reasoning is none and then you have to ask yourself, why???

 

[SteelerGirl43]

Yea I just don't believe Gracie at all......

 

[MyBelle]

What was the chain of custody on the wedding picture frame and the cigarette butts?

Did the prosecution try to prove the chain of custody was broken?

 

[MyBelle]

When LF came she stayed for weeks at a time. Read the emails and listen to LF's testimony. It was a huge problem. I have no doubt that the defendant's family didn't love CY and I am sure she got tender, loving care. But she didn't see them as often as the Fishers. The defendant's mother wasn't staying at the house for extended visits. And the defendant couldn't stand his MIL. I understand all that. It is what it is. I don't believe that CY was kept away from the Fishers to protect CY. It was to protect the defendant. MOO.

[modsnip]

I'm not sure why you think keeping CY away from the Fishers would "protect" Jason when, in fact, Meredith Fisher had care and custody of CY for hours prior to JY's return to Raleigh. He had no control over CY during that period as to what she would tell LE. If Jason later kept CY from the Fishers, he certainly had the parental right to do so as does any parent.

JMO