Jaycee's Girls

[Stephens]

Let me make it clear (in case someone misreads my previous comment): my dad didn't think every girl who happened to cling to their dad was a child rape victim, but the context we're talking about here is behavior that already strikes most people as, at least, odd, if not troubling. Another woman, I believe, also made note of the younger daughter clinging to Garrido. The fact it was noted by others besides the UC Berkeley officers is what makes this behavior stand out.

 

[mysteriew]

We actually don't know what Jaycee is saying about this. There is this report that she denies he ever molested them. The report doesn't indicate what she says their exact sleeping arrangements were.

So because she hasn't addressed it, you will believe that it happened? Then take that one step futher and insist that therefore they had to have been molested also? Despite their mother's denial?

 

[jjenny]

So because she hasn't addressed it, you will believe that it happened? Then take that one step futher and insist that therefore they had to have been molested also? Despite their mother's denial?

Garrido has said the children slept in his arms every night since birth.
She has not addressed it. What do you expect me to believe? You've already said you don't believe what Garrido has said. I take things he is saying with a grain of salt. But what would be the reason for him to make this up?

 

[surelock]

If he said that he never kidnapped and raped any other children would you believe him? Do you trust his word? With him, I would verify everything. Jaycee hasn't said he slept with them in his arms every night. So as far as I know that didn't happen.

No I do not beleive everything that he has said, but I am not going to discount his assertion that he slept with the daughters just cause he said it.

Jaycee might very well be trying to protect her daughters and is limiting the info that she gives out. Really only a doctor,or the chilldren themselves can say what happened.

 

[mysteriew]

"And having those two children, those two girls, they have slept in my arms every single night from birth."

Garrido's words. We have established that his words are being believed because there is nothing being said to contradict them.

"I never touched them."


Also Garrido's words. Verified by Jaycee, and apparently backed up at the present by LE as no charges are filed for sexual abuse of any type against the girls.

I guess I am just not getting it. Either his words are believable or they aren't. And if they aren't, doesn't there have to be some proof of a crime? Unless or until one of those girls says abuse was perpetrated against her, then I don't see where it gains anything to assume there was abuse. As a matter of fact I think it is harmful to accuse the known victim of not telling the truth and trying to push victimization on two minor children, for which there is currently no evidence of sexual abuse. If there was abuse then it would be up to a) authorities b) the children c) the mother to make the accusations of sexual abuse.

http://www.kcra.com/news/20604335/detail.html

 

[gitana1]

I guess the bottom line is that reality may be better left unsaid when it comes to the girls. Many of us here on Websleuths try to understand as best as possible, the criminal mind, what makes them tick, what are their patterns. But, the interests of the girls in maintaining privacy and trying to come to terms with the horror of the life they lived (whether or not sexual abuse was involved) and the horror of who there father is, would surely be hampered by public discussion of all the ways they were victimized. I do believe it is possible garrido did not ause them in this way. Surely, we all hope that's the truth. But, I would rather never know than have anything happen that may further traumatize these kids. They must be in a very fragile place right now.

 

[RJA00]

god i hope he has not touched the girls

i know he is a sick man, but maybe he is not that sick to mess with his own kids
i pray

 

[Natal]

Let me make it clear (in case someone misreads my previous comment): my dad didn't think every girl who happened to cling to their dad was a child rape victim, but the context we're talking about here is behavior that already strikes most people as, at least, odd, if not troubling. Another woman, I believe, also made note of the younger daughter clinging to Garrido. The fact it was noted by others besides the UC Berkeley officers is what makes this behavior stand out.

You do realize that this girl had most likely seen very few people in her life and spoken to even less. Of course she was going to be extremely intimidated when she was brought into social situations with strangers. she didn't trust them. At some point in the last few years Garrido had decided that the girls needed to get out more, which is why he took them around with him (I bet that self help book they found at the home had something to do with that). It would have been less of an issue for the younger girl because she was younger (and therefore better able to learn these new skills).

I remember when I was growing up, my family pretty much kept to themselves and I was pretty shy, particularly in social settings with people I hadn't met before or didnt know well. In the case of Jaycees older daughter, it is not a sign of sexual abuse, it is a sign of social isolation.

 

[Natal]

Btw, ya'll realize that at some point these girls are going to research the defining moment of their lives and come and read all this stuff right?

I wonder if this board will still be around then, and what they would think? Interesting.

 

[Stephens]

One other thing: didn't Garrido just recently, as in 2006, give away that CD of disturbing songs? And then there's also the 2006 claim by neighbors that he tried to lure teen girls after a party and a few drinks.

In other words, if he hasn't been raping Dugard in years and he's obviously still drawn to harming girls, he has been raping others.

I know that some think that if he has raped his daughters then perhaps it's best that it not be made public. All that does is entrench the notion of shame for rape victims, particularly those by their own family members. Plus, these girls are totally hidden from the public eye and they will all but certainly have new identities so I don't understand the argument against it.

It's best to have it all out. I'll never forget the story I heard of a woman who was raped when she was 13 by the two men who robbed and killed her parents during a home invasion. The DA told her it was best not to report it because it would only harm her. Now, she says she feels as if the deep pain they caused her wasn't acknowledged. There's something that is to be said about hearing a jury say, "Guilty," when you're the victim of a violent crime. It's validating. Even if you're just a kid when it happens, it'll help you in the future.

 

[jjenny]

Btw, ya'll realize that at some point these girls are going to research the defining moment of their lives and come and read all this stuff right?

I wonder if this board will still be around then, and what they would think? Interesting.

This site is far from being the only discussion board about the case. Considering Jaycee has spend 18 years with Garrido and apparently has not tried to escape, people are going to be curious about the situation and what went on. Also, it is possible she and maybe even the children will have to testify at trial (if there is one). If that is the case, then a lot of information will come out, and I doubt our discussion will matter one way or the other. Garrido certainly seem to want a trial, at which he thinks a "heartwarming" story comes out, so it's not likely he would plead guilty to anything. I bet the police hope Jaycee and the children won't have to testify, but there might be no choice in the end, because unlike Devlin, I don't think Garrido would plead guilty.

 

[Stephens]

Damn it, my edit function isn't working:

Just to be clear, I realize the CD was of songs written several years ago, but the fact he felt so comfortable with releasing them without changing the content or context of the songs, says a lot about his mindset just a few years ago. And I also forgot to mention that neighbor who called the LE in '06 about the girls living in the yard and his supposed "psychotic sex addiction."

 

[Natal]

Plus, these girls are totally hidden from the public eye and they will all but certainly have new identities so I don't understand the argument against it.

I don't think so, in a few years no one will remember who they are. Probably even sooner than that. Once this property search is finished, and assuming they find nothing more, the story will fade until the trial (if there is one). After that it will dissappear from the public eye pretty quickly. There is a never ending stream of new tragic stories to capture attention.

 

[jjenny]

I don't think so, in a few years no one will remember who they are. Probably even sooner than that. Once this property search is finished, and assuming they find nothing more, the story will fade until the trial (if there is one). After that it will dissappear from the public eye pretty quickly. There is a never ending stream of new tragic stories to capture attention.

I don't think so. People are still talking about Patty Hearst. How many years have it been now?

 

[Natal]

This site is far from being the only discussion board about the case. Considering Jaycee has spend 18 years with Garrido and apparently has not tried to escape, people are going to be curious about the situation and what went on. Also, it is possible she and maybe even the children will have to testify at trial (if there is one). If that is the case, then a lot of information will come out, and I doubt our discussion will matter one way or the other. Garrido certainly seem to want a trial, at which he thinks a "heartwarming" story comes out, so it's not likely he would plead guilty to anything. I bet the police hope Jaycee and the children won't have to testify, but there might be no choice in the end, because unlike Devlin, I don't think Garrido would plead guilty.

I have my doubts that PG will stand trial, I think it is more likely that he will be treated the same way as Elizabeth Smart's kidnappers. In any event he is on parole, so there isnt really any need for a trial. Nancy may be different, since she obviously isnt on parole, they would need to convict her to lock her up. It is possible they might declare her incompetent as well I suppose, and just lock her up and throw the key away.

One advantage to being declared incompetent is that they would probably not be allowed to give interviews, which could mean that the details of the story would be buried forever.

 

[jjenny]

I have my doubts that PG will stand trial, I think it is more likely that he will be treated the same way as Elizabeth Smart's kidnappers. In any event he is on parole, so there isnt really any need for a trial. Nancy may be different, since she obviously isnt on parole, they would need to convict her to lock her up. It is possible they might declare her incompetent as well I suppose, and just lock her up and throw the key away.

One advantage to being declared incompetent is that they would probably not be allowed to give interviews, which could mean that the details of the story would be buried forever.

I have my doubts as well, but from what Garrido said, seems like he really wants a trial, so his "heartwarming" story can come out. That, I think makes him different from other known cases.
Can they declare Garrido "incompetent" if he demands a trial? Since he is on parole, can they conclude he violated his parole without a trial, and have him spend the rest of his original sentence behind bars? In any case, like you said, Nancy isn't on parole so what will the authorities do about her? They might have no choice but put her on trial, unless they give her some sort of a deal, which she accepts?

 

[Natal]

I don't think so. People are still talking about Patty Hearst. How many years have it been now?

Only because she robbed a bank, was rich and got sent to prison. Protesting that she was a victim is what kept her in the limelight well beyond her 15 minutes. I don't think she has been the topic of discussion for a very long time now. Which is not to say that her name doesnt come up on occasion, but people who bump into her on the street won't know who she is.

I think it will be sort of like the infamous "child star", who has their moment in the sun and then slips into oblivion.

 

[Natal]

I have my doubts as well, but from what Garrido said, seems like he really wants a trial, so his "heartwarming" story can come out. That, I think makes him different from Elizabeth Smart's kidnapper.
Can they declare Garrido "incompetent" if he demands a trial? Since he is on parole, can they conclude he violated his parole without a trial, and have him spend the rest of his original sentence behind bars? In any case, like you said, Nancy isn't on parole so what will the authorities do about her? They might have no choice but put her on trial, unless they give her some sort of a deal?

I don't think they can really give her a deal, because she doesnt have anything of value to give them (unless she can implicate PG in other capital crimes). If they offer her a plea with anything less than life and get nothing in return there will be a howl of outrage. When it comes to getting re-elected, Jaycee and her kids mental health will be less important than the perception of justice being done.

 

[LillyRush]

I am willing to take Jaycee's word on this right now. Certainly though, it's reasonable for most if not all of us to be a little wary of accepting that as fact considering Phillip's history. That is not at all suggesting Jaycee is a liar, but it's just that she was not really with them all of the time. We already know that he was the one taking them around the neighborhood by himself and who knows whether the claims about them sleeping in the same bed are true. So, she might not even really know for sure and/or she may be in denial. I suppose that if anything did go on that it will come up during further counseling. I would not necessarily expect that to be shared with the general public, if it came out later during therapy sessions.

 

[MBK]

Starlite and Angel, the two daughters Jaycee Lee Dugard had with her accused kidnapper, Phillip Garrido, were "starved of information," have never watched TV, have never heard of the U.S. President, and are undergoing "de-brainwashing" therapy, according to investigators Wednesday.
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...ychiatric-report-jaycee-lee-dugards-kidnapper
Dugard, 29, Starlite, 15, and Angel, 11, were all undergoing therapy in the Bay Area, where they are residing at a safe house with Jaycee's mother, Terry Probyn, and their aunt, Tina Dugard.
See the photos of the inside of the structures where Jaycee was held
"They are both intelligent kids but they are very naive about the real world," a Contra Costa Sheriff's Department officer told the UK Sun. The girls "have no concept of math, geography and history or anything outside their town of Antioch."
QUOTE]

Plenty of kids have actually be IN school, and they don't know that stuff either. Well, they may know who Obama is on a superficial level, but that's about it. Geography? History? Pffffft. PUH-LEASE.

I have no doubt that with intensive tutoring and self-driven study, the girls can become culturally literate and even far surpass many students their own age.