Jaycee's Girls

[jjenny]

Forgive me for not considering his words credible. Criminals say all kinds of things to minimize their crimes. It's what they do.

This was posted in response to your question to MBK, "And you know these things as a fact because...?,"

 

[LinasK]

No one has called Jaycee a liar. But there have been a lot of speculation she might suffer from Stockholm syndrome, and her behavior seem to fit.

Exactly, when Jaycee's current story that he didn't touch them is confirmed by psychologists and doctors who have examined them, then I'll believe it.

 

[Natal]

No one has called Jaycee a liar. But there have been a lot of speculation she might suffer from Stockholm syndrome, and her behavior seem to fit.

People who have Stockholm syndrome make excuses of their captors behaviour, and defend them. They generally don't lie about the facts however.

 

[jjenny]

People who have Stockholm syndrome make excuses of their captors behaviour, and defend them. They generally don't lie about the facts however.

I can name two cases in which kidnapped persons have reportedly denied who they were in response to questioning by either police or neighbors. That said, I hope Jaycee's daughters have not been molested.

 

[songline]

Here are Garridos' own words:"He also insisted he had not abused his two daughters, whom he kept captive along with their mother their entire lives, never permitting them to see a doctor or to go to school. ''They slept in my arms every single night from birth. I never touched them,'' he said, crying."
http://www.watoday.com.au/world/kidnap-suspect-boasts-story-will-impress-20090830-f3na.html

What Garridos says is strange, He is known as the creepy man
His views are warped, His mind is warped, His life is warped;
SO he said it.
IT IS STILL NOT LOVE.
It is a warped mind doing warped things and
knowing fully that it is against the law.
He hid them - he knew.

 

[songline]

People who have Stockholm syndrome make excuses of their captors behaviour, and defend them. They generally don't lie about the facts however.

You are mistaken, Stockholm includes acting on automatic, defending their captor. it very much includes lies.

 

[mysteriew]

No one has called Jaycee a liar. But there have been a lot of speculation she might suffer from Stockholm syndrome, and her behavior seem to fit.

She has made a statement. But there is still speculation that she isn't telling the truth. That is lying. Let's just kinda go for the long shot and say that she was telling the truth. Wouldn't you say that it might be kinda victimizing her again to say "well but Stockholm Syndorome made her lie?"

And if she didn't know or couldn't face that one of her children (or both) was being abused, wouldn't it be best for her to face that within therapy, in a safe place?

Should she feel that people are speculating about how long that her abuse occurred, whether or not her daughters were abused, even after she has made a statement about that? Wouldn't that be prolonging the road to her ever feeling safe and comfortable out in public? Knowing that people are looking at her and saying that she didn't know what she was saying or that she was protecting her abuser?

 

[txsvicki]

Exactly, when Jaycee's current story that he didn't touch them is confirmed by psychologists and doctors who have examined them, then I'll believe it.

I agree. Jaycee can't know exactly what went on when she wasn't around and PG took the girls around with him places without her along. I can't see him telling the truth if she specifically asked him either. He's a pedophile and deranged and not to be trusted. Hopefully she didn't have to resort to asking the kids, plus there might not have been physical evidence that she would have noticed even if he ordered them to say nothing. To me, a more reasonable answer would have been that she doesn't think he ever harmed the girls, but can't be positive.

 

[jjenny]

She has made a statement. But there is still speculation that she isn't telling the truth. That is lying. Let's just kinda go for the long shot and say that she was telling the truth. Wouldn't you say that it might be kinda victimizing her again to say "well but Stockholm Syndorome made her lie?"

And if she didn't know or couldn't face that one of her children (or both) was being abused, wouldn't it be best for her to face that within therapy, in a safe place?

Should she feel that people are speculating about how long that her abuse occurred, whether or not her daughters were abused, even after she has made a statement about that? Wouldn't that be prolonging the road to her ever feeling safe and comfortable out in public? Knowing that people are looking at her and saying that she didn't know what she was saying or that she was protecting her abuser?

I am not sure what it is that you expect me to say? Should we stop all discussion? Is that what you are suggesting?

 

[Natal]

I can name two cases in which kidnapped persons have reportedly denied who they were in response to questioning by either police or neighbors. That said, I hope Jaycee's daughters have not been molested.

Three weeks after being in police custody? I think not.

 

[jjenny]

Three weeks after being in police custody? I think not.

Not three weeks in police custody. But that is neither here nor there, because your statement was that Stockholm's victims always tell the truth. Yet when asked by, let's say a neighbor, if the victim were who the victim were, the victim might deny it even if abductor was nowhere near at the time.
As a result the victim would not get the help the victim needed to escape.

 

[surelock]

Jaycee would have been more alert to her children because of her history. And she would have been quick to recognize changes in her daughters. So if she says her girls were not molested, then personally I believe it. I wasn't there, there is no evidence showing any different, and there are no charges indicating that the girls were raped. So unless one of the girls themselves say something different, then I see no reason to call Jaycee a liar.

The story is bad enough with what has happened, there is no need to sensationalize it by adding details that the victim denys.

He slept with his daughters in his arms every night. Was that out in the tent area where JC could vouch for what was going on? Who watched him sleep with them? Who would really know other than maybe a doctor or a therapist?

Why give him the benefit of the doubt now?

Maybe he did turn over a new leaf and got religion after the birth of his youngest and never abused again. But wait he got religion the last time, after his last rape, before grabbing JC off of the street!

My heart goes out to JC but she may not be the best source for everything that happened on that property.

 

[Natal]

You are mistaken, Stockholm includes acting on automatic, defending their captor. it very much includes lies.

Ok, provide an example!

 

[jjenny]

If Jaycee said she considered PB a father figure I would take that as a fact. I have not seen a report of her making such a statement. A statement from someone who has - even today - said he has not yet seen Jaycee is hearsay at least once removed. And the statements of a criminal tell me nothing - if PB said "Good Morning" I'd find a window to check for the sun.

That was not the MBK question you were responding to.

 

[Natal]

Not three weeks in police custody. But that is neither here nor there, because your statement was that Stockholm's victims always tell the truth.

Well, we are talking about Jaycee here, so that is the reference point. When she first arrived at the parole office it took a while to get the truth out of her, THAT was Stockholm syndrome. That has passed now. Do you think she is now with her family, sitting off sullenly in some corner pining for PG? That is obviously not happening from all reports we are recieving, so what reason could she have to lie about this?

 

[jjenny]

Well, we are talking about Jaycee here, so that is the reference point. When she first arrived at the parole office it took a while to get the truth out of her, THAT was Stockholm syndrome. That has passed now. Do you think she is now with her family, sitting off sullenly in some corner pining for PG? That is obviously not happening from all reports we are recieving, so what reason could she have to lie about this?

I have absolutely no idea what she is feeling toward Garrido. Her step-father has claimed she has strong feelings for Garrido and viewed it almost like a marriage. I have no idea how long would it take for her to overcome these kind of feelings if indeed she has them.

 

[Stephens]

MBK, I agree with you. Particularly on the clingy behavior. My father is a retired detective and he always considered that, a girl clinging to a father, as a tell-tale sign of child rape. He noted the difference between children who are being battered or witnessing domestic violence as this: those children certainly do not stray far from the father, but they generally don't cling, hold onto their fathers. They tend to look down or sullen, but these girls, and even Dugard, noticeably looked at Garrido as if he were God-like (If you noticed, Nancy Garrido didn't look at Phillip Garrido that way, if at all, during their times together in court so far). A man doesn't do that to women and girls--making them entirely dependent on him--unless he intends to exploit them thoroughly (think: David Karesh). Child rapists seek out to exploit religion to justify their behavior, not stop it. For crying out loud, this man saw himself as God! Once you believe you are inherently moral superior to others you will commit unspeakable evil. It's not a possibility, but an inevitability! As has been said throughout history: power corrupts; absolute power corrupts--absolutely.

But let's assume Dugard is telling the truth--as she knows it. Remember, she was a child when she was taken so I doubt she understood what pedophiles were like, that they rape child after child, never stopping, and they are beyond ruthless in their ability to manipulate. She would not know what signs to even look for and as a thoroughly dependent captive she would blindly trust Garrido, which he would exploit easily (Again, you don't make yourself all-powerful and not abuse).

There were several moments where Garrido was alone with the girls, as he himself mentioned that the girls "slept" in his arms every night, he lies as easily as he abuses--continuing to tell neighbors that a disgruntled ex-girlfriend lied about him in 1976--and Dugard herself mentioned he stopped raping her years ago. Who was he raping then after he stopped with Dugard? Garrido sees rape, particularly the raping of young girls, as not only his ultimate sexual fantasy but the only--only--way he can be sexually satisfied. Why would he turn that down ever, let alone every day for the past several years? He wouldn't.

Honestly, if you think he's been celibate all this time and not abused during his reign as "God," I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[surelock]

Well, we are talking about Jaycee here, so that is the reference point. When she first arrived at the parole office it took a while to get the truth out of her, THAT was Stockholm syndrome. That has passed now. Do you think she is now with her family, sitting off sullenly in some corner pining for PG? That is obviously not happening from all reports we are recieving, so what reason could she have to lie about this?

Wow the Stockholm system has passed after only 2 months of freedom following 29 years of being a sex slave. Ain't modern medicine grand?

 

[mysteriew]

He slept with his daughters in his arms every night. Was that out in the tent area where JC could vouch for what was going on? Who watched him sleep with them? Who would really know other than maybe a doctor or a therapist?

Why give him the benefit of the doubt now?

Maybe he did turn over a new leaf and got religion after the birth of his youngest and never abused again. But wait he got religion the last time, after his last rape, before grabbing JC off of the street!

My heart goes out to JC but she may not be the best source for everything that happened on that property.

If he said that he never kidnapped and raped any other children would you believe him? Do you trust his word? With him, I would verify everything. Jaycee hasn't said he slept with them in his arms every night. So as far as I know that didn't happen.

 

[jjenny]

If he said that he never kidnapped and raped any other children would you believe him? Do you trust his word? With him, I would verify everything. Jaycee hasn't said he slept with them in his arms every night. So as far as I know that didn't happen.

We actually don't know what Jaycee is saying about this. There is this report that she denies he ever molested them. The report doesn't indicate what she says their exact sleeping arrangements were.