Jaycee's Girls

[songline]

Well, we are talking about Jaycee here, so that is the reference point. When she first arrived at the parole office it took a while to get the truth out of her, THAT was Stockholm syndrome. That has passed now. Do you think she is now with her family, sitting off sullenly in some corner pining for PG? That is obviously not happening from all reports we are recieving, so what reason could she have to lie about this?

First I would recommend that you find out what brain washing does to someone, how long it effects you till you get deprogrammed and how long it may take to become deprogrammed.

It becomes an inherent behavior, and lies are part of survival.
Many books have been written about this topic.

 

[songline]

Ok, provide an example!

Brainwashing is a huge topic. This is a very special case.
I think it would be a good Idea that you understand how brainwashing works.
I cant create a scenario in my head right now.
But Brain washed people will talk in the direction they were trained to think.
Protecting their abuser is key.

 

[oh_gal]

Jaycee would have been more alert to her children because of her history. And she would have been quick to recognize changes in her daughters. So if she says her girls were not molested, then personally I believe it. I wasn't there, there is no evidence showing any different, and there are no charges indicating that the girls were raped. So unless one of the girls themselves say something different, then I see no reason to call Jaycee a liar.

The story is bad enough with what has happened, there is no need to sensationalize it by adding details that the victim denys.

I would believe it too, if she weren't physically and mentally abused and conditioned to think and act a certain way for the past 18 years.

I was physically, verbally, emotionally, sexually and mentally abused for much of my first marriage (for approximately 12 years). Oh, not to the same extent as Jaycee -- not even close, don't get me wrong.. But I lived in a house, way back in the woods, isolated from everyone. It had no indoor plumbing, no running water, and no heat source (except for an 80 year old wood stove -- no duct work, no furnace). I didn't have a car to drive, and we had no friends, because my husband (now ex) told me that if anyone knew how we lived, they'd call the police and we'd have our son taken away from us.

During that time, I doubted many things about myself, as well as the world and people around me. My world became so small and closed -- what you see as reality, and real, change.

When I left, it took me a while to get past a lot of things, and some things still pop up from time to time that I have to deal with, much to the frustration of my current husband (although he's too sweet to ever phrase it quite like that). But I have trust issues.

So, again, if it weren't for what she went through, and my own first hand knowledge of what relationships like this can do to you (to the extent that I experienced it), I'd agree with you. But I'll give it some time for the truth to come out. But I hope it's true, that he didn't touch those girls.

 

[kbl8201]

i dont know if jaycee can 'find a man' in a year or two. thats simply because in many ways she's still the 11 year old girl that was stolen in 1991. she never had a chance to fully mature do to what those two monsters did to her for 18 years.......
that being said, jaycee did as good a job educating her daughters with what limited schooling she had. and it must have been very painful for her to play the whole 'older sister sharade'.

 

[Natal]

Brainwashing is a huge topic. This is a very special case.
I think it would be a good Idea that you understand how brainwashing works.
I cant create a scenario in my head right now.
But Brain washed people will talk in the direction they were trained to think.
Protecting their abuser is key.

There is no evidence that she is protecting him, or that she has been "brainwashed". By all accounts she has integrated well back into her family other than except her first few hours of freedom. So, that suggests that there isn't any "brainwashing".

I'm still waiting for my example btw

 

[kbl8201]

i agree with natal. she does seem to have intergrated back into her family well, and she sure didnt protect garrido at all. she obviously told them everything he did to her. i find it inconcievable that if she would do that, she would then lie about what he did/did not do to her girls. but then again it's possible she doesnt know........

 

[Natal]

I am willing to take Jaycee's word on this right now. Certainly though, it's reasonable for most if not all of us to be a little wary of accepting that as fact considering Phillip's history. That is not at all suggesting Jaycee is a liar, but it's just that she was not really with them all of the time. We already know that he was the one taking them around the neighborhood by himself and who knows whether the claims about them sleeping in the same bed are true. So, she might not even really know for sure and/or she may be in denial. I suppose that if anything did go on that it will come up during further counseling. I would not necessarily expect that to be shared with the general public, if it came out later during therapy sessions.

Oh, those girls probably know every minute detail of each others day to day lives, I doubt much would happen that the others wouldn't find out about. They wouldnt be like normal families. I think part of the problem here is that you folks are looking at their world through your eyes and interpreting things that way. I could believe that they might see nothing wrong with those sorts of activities, but not know? Doubtful.

 

[Missizzy]

Let's hope to high heaven that the little girls were never touched. I'm certain we all agree on this. That said, I wanted to share my perspective.

When our eight children were raped, the rapes went on for over 18 months. The children continued to visit the rapist (a neighbor) and even begged to go play with him. They covered up the evidence. They threw away soiled underclothes and other things I'd rather not mention. The rapist had them so convinced that they were "part" of the game. He also threatened them with raping older family members and with a shotgun which he showed them. Then, he really made the trauma sink in by killing one of our cats and cutting another's tail off in front of them.

When the first disclosure came in from our 12 year old, none of the others spoke out immediately. They had to each check and double check that the rapist was truly locked up before their sad stories started to trickle out. They were also terrified of getting one another in trouble--and they were only 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, and 12. One by one, over the course of two weeks, each child disclosed to the police and therapists what had been done to them. Then other, unrelated children started coming forward. They all knew about the others' abuse too. We, as parents, felt so guilty and betrayed--not only by the monster but that our young children would not ask us for help and tell us what was happening. They really went to great lengths to protect their rapist and repeatedly expressed concern for him when he went to jail.

Both my husband and I were home with these children every day and are extremely over-protective but the rapist still got by us. We are very experienced parents and my background is in child development. The rapist's mother was a respected teacher, his father was a doctor, and and our children begged to play. Our children went to a wonderful elementary school and were surrounded by helpful and caring special ed teachers and therapists. Two of our kids were actually raped in the school restroom as was another child not related to us. Why did they not cry out for help? Because the rapist had totally confused their little minds. Children do not always disclose right away, even when there are many many safe people to disclose to. Sometimes, as we all know, it takes time.

I pray that Jaycee was with those girls all the time and knows for certain that there was no abuse but I doubt that to be true. Jaycee and her girls were no doubt continuously and purposefully prevented from knowing right from wrong and up from down. PG took the girls alone to Berkeley and probably to many other places without Jaycee. Abuse only takes seconds as I learned the hard way. Many offenders really get off on abusing children right in front of their parents, teachers, or others. The risk factor turns them on.

I have a vision burned in my memory. It's of the rapist waving and smiling at me from the top of our children's play structure which had an enclosed fort. It came out at trial that while he was waving at me, my 6 year old was being forced to perform oral sex on him as several other children looked on. The child described it in detail in court and even turned to me from the witness stand and said, "Don't you remember, Mommy, he was laughing and waving at you and I thought you could see what he wanted me to do." Those words will haunt me forever.

I want to hold out hope, however, I'm a realist.

 

[kbl8201]

thanks for sharing missizzy. i know how difficult that was to do. im so sorry that happened to your kids. i hope the animal got life.........
as i said i dont think jaycee is lying to protetc garrido. she hasnt protected him from what he did to her, why would she protect him if she knew he hurt her girls? if the girls were abused it is very possible she doesnt know.....

 

[oh_gal]

Do we actually know for a fact that Jaycee is doing as well as has been hinted at here? (Before you jump all over me, I have not been as up to date as many of you obviously are regarding news and interviews and such.) As far as I know, she has not done an interview, and I've seen a few comments from her Aunt, but that's about it. All I heard from the Aunt was how glad they were to have her home, and how she's getting to know her mom again...and letting her mom get to know her and the girls. While those are nice statements, they don't really tell us how she's "doing." And if I were her family, I doubt I'd get on national tv and say, "She's really having a difficult time..there was a lot of mental abuse going on." I'd want to keep that private. Anyway, I really find it hard to believe that this girl has gone from 18 years of abuse to living back at home, and everything's great. She might be supressing stuff.

 

[LinasK]

Btw, ya'll realize that at some point these girls are going to research the defining moment of their lives and come and read all this stuff right?

I wonder if this board will still be around then, and what they would think? Interesting.

So you think we shouldn't be discussing it for fear, years later they might read it??? You have no way of knowing whether they will or not, and by then they'll have gotten lots of therapy to deal with what's happened to them. Besides, I highly doubt reading Websleuths to see what's been said about them is a priority for them right now...

 

[LinasK]

Brainwashing is a huge topic. This is a very special case.
I think it would be a good Idea that you understand how brainwashing works.
I cant create a scenario in my head right now.
But Brain washed people will talk in the direction they were trained to think.
Protecting their abuser is key.

Exactly! Noone on this board has ever suggested Jaycee was a purposeful liar. Jaycee however has had 18 years of brainwashing and trained to defend her abductor and fear him!

 

[kbl8201]

Do we actually know for a fact that Jaycee is doing as well as has been hinted at here? (Before you jump all over me, I have not been as up to date as many of you obviously are regarding news and interviews and such.) As far as I know, she has not done an interview, and I've seen a few comments from her Aunt, but that's about it. All I heard from the Aunt was how glad they were to have her home, and how she's getting to know her mom again...and letting her mom get to know her and the girls. While those are nice statements, they don't really tell us how she's "doing." And if I were her family, I doubt I'd get on national tv and say, "She's really having a difficult time..there was a lot of mental abuse going on." I'd want to keep that private. Anyway, I really find it hard to believe that this girl has gone from 18 years of abuse to living back at home, and everything's great. She might be supressing stuff.

solid points oh gal. in fact the aunt tina said that there were some issues...of course there are. to survive the hell jaycee has she could not possibly have come out of this in perfect shape. she will need years of therapy and so will the girls. (the girls probably more so since they think garrdio is some great dad). but what i was trying to say is they are off to a good start.......

 

[MBK]

Oh, those girls probably know every minute detail of each others day to day lives, I doubt much would happen that the others wouldn't find out about. They wouldnt be like normal families. I think part of the problem here is that you folks are looking at their world through your eyes and interpreting things that way. I could believe that they might see nothing wrong with those sorts of activities, but not know? Doubtful.

But we really don't know how much time they even spent together. After all, if the girls slept in PG's arms every night, maybe they were sequestered from Jaycee most of the day, too. PG took the daughters out and about, but seemingly not Jaycee. Where they all lived, exactly, and in which structures, is unknown to us at this point.

They didn't know every minute detail of each others' lives - - they didn't know that their "sister" wasn't their sister at all . . . and not to be crude, but the oldest one didn't know that "Daddy" was having sex with her big sister, did she? Then big sis had a baby - - do you think her little sister even KNEW she was pregnant, by PG?

So, no, I don't think there was total transparency at that house! It was an intricate web of lies and secrecy.

And NO, I know that doesn't mean that the daughters were molested. Hope to god they weren't. But if you read the definition in the California Penal Code . . .

 

[kbl8201]

with him shuffling them off to the tents and sheds he probably kept the older girl unware of jaycee's pregnency

 

[songline]

Btw, ya'll realize that at some point these girls are going to research the defining moment of their lives and come and read all this stuff right?

I wonder if this board will still be around then, and what they would think? Interesting.

This forum will be in the Archives like other old forums, by the time they are ready to know.
but they will be able to research enough, the internet has lots of data.
They are still a long way off form that time, they have to be emotionally ready to read about that SOB.
so far as they know he is Dad. Reading all this Chit about your father, one has to be really ready.
How does one ever get ready to learn all this horrible truth? I am not very sure....

But I once knew a woman who was sexually abused by her father and it took many years of work
to come to a place where she felt whole again.
When she heard that he was old and may not live much longer, she went to make peace for her own self.
The man that greeted her at the door as she recalls it now; was a broken down shell -
She told him she wished him well, had a cup of tea with him and told him she felt sorry for him and
thinks he is a coward for what he had done to her, and that she pities him, she said we may never
meet again, but I hope you find peace with it too. After leaving there she had a good cry and felt
that she had healed her last peice.
She is in a relationship finally tha works; she had a revolving list of relationships that did not till
she heald her past.

Some people do come out stronger. Some align with that parent, and that is not so good.

 

[songline]

So you think we shouldn't be discussing it for fear, years later they might read it??? You have no way of knowing whether they will or not, and by then they'll have gotten lots of therapy to deal with what's happened to them. Besides, I highly doubt reading Websleuths to see what's been said about them is a priority for them right now...

Not to worry, this entire file will be where other old files are: ARCHIVED.

 

[Missizzy]

"And NO, I know that doesn't mean that the daughters were molested. Hope to god they weren't. But if you read the definition in the California Penal Code . . ."

MBK--I'm curious about what you are referring to. Can you explain or give us a link. Thanks. And ITA about the absolute lack of transparency in that house. Offenders depend on others not talking or sharing. Appalling how often they get their wish!!

 

[songline]

WE WILL NEVER KNOW IF THEY WERE OR WERE NOT MOLESTED.
IT is best to keep their lives privet.
This thread is becoming a fantasy thread. :crazy:

I do not believe any thing PG or NG will say.
And until JC gets programmed I will not take into account all that she says either. By the time she is deprogrammed she will also know about healthy boundaries.

That will include telling us to mind our own business.:blushing:

This thread has been rehashed to the moon and back.

 

[kbl8201]

WE WILL NEVER KNOW IF THEY WERE OR WERE NOT MOLESTED.
IT is best to keep their lives privet.
This thread is becoming a fantasy thread. :crazy:

I do not believe any thing PG or NG will say.
And until JC gets programmed I will not take into account all that she says either. By the time she is deprogrammed she will also know about healthy boundaries.

That will include telling us to mind our own business.:blushing:

This thread has been rehashed to the moon and back.

to me the issue is jaycee is free and open with everything garrido did to HER. why would she cover his behind if she knew he was hurting her girls? yeah she "bonded with him", i know. that didnt stop her from telling the police what he did to her.........