JBR, PR and UMI

  • #321
This is a vague generalization with zero statistical basis. I suppose that conducting a poll on this forum, you probably find most believe RDI. However the 'not many seem to actually believe IDI' is incorrect as far as those closest to the investigation. Your generalization is not valid with respect to those who are important to the case, those who are informed, those who matter most.

I guess who matters most is a subjective thing.

I would say who matters most are the people with genuine love for JonBenet, those who actually want her killer/s brought to justice. There are systems/agencies that have more vested interest in that NOT happening.

Those who did NOT consider JonBenet sport for either the depraved or mentally ill, who did NOT consider JonBenet a manipulative tool, who did NOT consider JonBenet a sexually-arousing plaything, who did NOT consider JonBenet as merely another child sent back to dust and ashes so that more and more and more little girls could continually take her place in someone's sick twisted mind, THOSE are the people who REALLY MATTER.

The people who want this killer and this crime brought to light of day so it can be understood and so it might never be perpetrated on any other little girl ever ever again, THOSE are the people who matter.

Everyone else can shuffle papers and draw paychecks all they want; I don't care. Over the long period of time, it has become VERY APPARENT who really WANTS this crime solved. Those who don't, shut up and move to the back of the bus. Your oxygen supply is about to run out.
 
  • #322
I guess who matters most is a subjective thing.

I would say who matters most are the people with genuine love for JonBenet, those who most want her killer/s brought to justice. There are systems/agencies that have more vested interest in that NOT happening.

Those who did NOT consider JonBenet sport for either the depraved or mentally ill, who did NOT consider JonBenet a manipulative tool, who did NOT consider JonBenet a sexually-arousing plaything, who did NOT consider JonBenet as merely another child sent back to dust and ashes so that more and more and more little girls could continually take her place in someone's sick twisted mind, THOSE are the people who REALLY MATTER.

The people who want this killer and this crime brought to light of day so it can be understood and so it might never be perpetrated on any other little girl ever ever again, THOSE are the people who matter.

Everyone else can shuffle papers and draw paychecks all they want; I don't care. Over the long period of time, it has become VERY APPARENT who really WANTS this crime solved. Those who don't, shut up and move to the back of the bus. Your oxygen supply is about to run out.



From where I sit, most here are pretty much over-the-edge RDI. When evidence that on the face of it favors IDI, it is quickly spun into something else. Sometimes in a matter of minutes.

I think there should be more acknowlegement that on first glance, one item or another pretty much supports one argument or the other. As it is now, the items that don't belong to somebody's theory are simply met with ad hominem or ignored.

Further, sincerity means all options on the table. Interesting that many of those who claim to be so interested in solving this crime have mentally tossed this idea. A truly sincere person would know political events from that period, since actual contemporary political ideologies were presented by the RN.
 
  • #323
From where I sit, most here are pretty much over-the-edge RDI. When evidence that on the face of it favors IDI, it is quickly spun into something else. Sometimes in a matter of minutes.

I think there should be more acknowlegement that on first glance, one item or another pretty much supports one argument or the other. As it is now, the items that don't belong to somebody's theory are simply met with ad hominem or ignored.

Further, sincerity means all options on the table. Interesting that many of those who claim to be so interested in solving this crime have mentally tossed this idea. A truly sincere person would know political events from that period, since actual contemporary political ideologies were presented by the RN.

First, I am one of those who still has all options on the table. I am not completely sold on RDI OR IDI. I keep in mind that what happened happened. THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH. Until it is proven one way or another, whatever I think is most likely to have happened doesn't mean a thing.

On the RN having political ideologies, my opinion is that the presentation of those in the RN are one of the best indicators that the RN copycatted political ideologies for the sake of trying to look authentic. It comes off, to me anyway, as a cheap and narcissistic version lacking any real sincerety. "Factions" with a point to make just do not have a history of this kind of ransom note, nowhere close. And the time it took near the beginning of a long-winded note to point out that the "faction" RESPECTED JR's business but not our nation is so self-promoting it is laughable, especially considering that JB's dead body was still in the basement where it could easily be found and wouldn't be netting any ransom money at all. It's the greatest absurdity of the whole murder scenario.

Just my opinion.
 
  • #324
From where I sit, most here are pretty much over-the-edge RDI. When evidence that on the face of it favors IDI, it is quickly spun into something else. Sometimes in a matter of minutes.

I think there should be more acknowlegement that on first glance, one item or another pretty much supports one argument or the other.[/B] As it is now, the items that don't belong to somebody's theory are simply met with ad hominem or ignored.

Further, sincerity means all options on the table. Interesting that many of those who claim to be so interested in solving this crime have mentally tossed this idea. A truly sincere person would know political events from that period, since actual contemporary political ideologies were presented by the RN.


I like your post and find much here to respond to with reason and consideration. I see that you believe that certain items support EITHER one camp OR the other. I tend to look at those same items and ask myself how they could reasonably fit into BOTH scenarios.

The best attorneys are those who carefully consider how the OTHER side will spin "certain items" and then work from there backwards to unravel the other side's argument. :)
 
  • #325
Explaining that petechial hemorrhaging and ligature furrow are the result of accidental death, is a little bit like explaining how 2 equals 3.

Personally, I think Werner Spitz and Norm Early did an excellent job of doing so.

I just can't see the logic because there is none.

Well, you're half-right!

RDI is an emotional choice, not a rational one.

?????
 
  • #326
Oh my gosh, I'm glad for you that you have lived to this age with such sweet naivette.

Yeah, I can only WISH that real life was as easy as HOTYH makes it out to be.

Among the parents with abuse so serious as to merit removing the children from their homes, almost NONE had prior convictions or arrests. SOME had parents that were leaders in their churches or were well known in civic endeavors.

The CAPACITY to be abusive is not especially saved for the most derelict criminals. But wouldn't it be grand if it were?

OL, I get the feeling your insights will be valuable.
 
  • #327
So, if "all the elements" of this crime are there - plain as day...why are we still going round and round all these years later? If this was the way an intruder TRULY left the crime scene, all these things would be considered fact as to how it happened -- just without the "who." Does that make sense? On the surface, it looks like something that could have happened, but it's funny that with so many "easy" clues left behind, not many seem to actually believe it. Wonder why?

:clap: :clap: :clap:
 
  • #328
A truly sincere person would know political events from that period, since actual contemporary political ideologies were presented by the RN.

On the RN having political ideologies, my opinion is that the presentation of those in the RN are one of the best indicators that the RN copycatted political ideologies for the sake of trying to look authentic.

Case in point. Evidence that on the face of it supports IDI is rationalized into RDI, and as a result a naivety in politics is exposed. When discussing political events from 1996 with over-the-edge RDI, we get to Osama and thats about it.
 
  • #329
Case in point. Evidence that on the face of it supports IDI is rationalized into RDI, and as a result a naivety in politics is exposed. When discussing political events from 1996 with over-the-edge RDI, we get to Osama and thats about it.

The only political naivete is in the RN, HOTYH. OneLove is right. The person who wrote the RN was clearly trying to play on popular fears.
 
  • #330
The only political naivete is in the RN, HOTYH. OneLove is right. The person who wrote the RN was clearly trying to play on popular fears.

Wrong. You've said you can hit any pitch. At least I know you'll take a swing!

Beheading kidnap victims, fat cats, and having disrespect for countries weren't popular fears. The violence threatened in the RN was unusual and remote. Nice try, though.
 
  • #331
You've said you can hit any pitch. At least I know you'll take a swing!

It's what I do!

Beheading kidnap victims, fat cats, and having disrespect for countries weren't popular fears.

Kidnapping and terrorism were and are. And the note hits all of them.

The violence threatened in the RN was unusual and remote.

Sorry, HOTYH, but even back then, people knew that the behead people in the Middle East.

Nice try, though.

Nice try, yourself.
 
  • #332
Yeah, I can only WISH that real life was as easy as HOTYH makes it out to be.

OL, I get the feeling your insights will be valuable.



I am still waiting to find out what it is I don't understand about my own questions and what books I am supposed to read to educate myself. Because, it is, after all, obvious I do not know that of which I speak, according to our resident expert.
 
  • #333
In your theory, JBK, how do you feel Patsy's jacket fibers got entwined in the knot of the cord and on the inside of the tape. To me, her fibers in those 2 places put her there when the garrote and tape were applied. If JR did this alone, how could Patsy's fibers in those places have transferred from JR's clothing and not any from JR's clothing? His shirt fibers were found inside the panty crotch, we know, but I haven't seen them noted as having been found anywhere else.
As odious as it is, I feel PR had to be there at the time.[/QUOTE]

Good point!

Some people, especially 2 who post here, just cannot fathom how a mother who otherwise showed love, compassion, and nurturing behaviors could do such a thing.

It reminds me of several decades ago when I worked for a social service agency advocating for at-risk youth. You simply cannot imagine the horrors I saw, the things that 'loving' family can do to family members. When I ran an emergency shelter for teenage girls, many of them were sexually abused by fathers who were in esteemed positions, such as pastors or civic leaders and who knew that their daughters would never be believed over them. I sometimes had to have police escorts to get these girls to the courthouse safely for their hearings when the "perpetrators" realized the gig really was up and it was about to "go public". Talk about homicidal anger and panic!

I had eventually had two children myself and had to give up this work because it wasn't healthy for my own children. I will say that I learned something unexpected: I once took a popular over-the-counter diet aid. ONCE. It made me so short-tempered that in those few hours alone I was afraid if one of my kids aggravated me, Icould hurt him. It thankfully passed, and I never took one again. But after that, in my social work, I always looked for possibility of diet-pill use, along with the illegal drugs that were so rampant.

Certain drugs AND stress can affect adrenaline. Anger also causes a flush of adrenaline. People with adrenaline flowing can often lift a car or heavy tree branch off a person who is pinned, etc. It is the same way with a person in a fit of anger. A push or shove in anger or a swing of he flashlight IN ANGER can be something entirely different than under other circumstances. People are OFTEN horrified at the things they did IN ANGER or UNDER THE INFLUENCE of drugs that they would never have done otherwise.

I don't find it too hard to believe that either PR or JR did something that night that they would never have done if not in anger, panic, or stress

has nothing to do with this case
 
  • #334
has nothing to do with this case


So you must mean the possibility of drugs and/or stress playing a part and obviously anyone putting PR at the scene would think that it does have something to do with it and anyone thinking she had no part in it would not, so your comment is only relevant to those who share your theories.
Because any fibers found on a dead body have to do with the case until they are proven NOT to.
 
  • #335
Kidnapping and terrorism were and are. And the note hits all of them.

Its no better, SD. Beheading a small child wasn't a popular fear. Executing a child wasn't a popular fear. Kidnapping for ransom was no more or less popular at that time. That the RN author wanted to appear to play on popular fears can't be substantiated. Maybe it would help you to list some popular fears, and then decide if the ransom note had any.

Do you really believe the RN author thought the RN would appear as terrorism?
 
  • #336
I know, and it wasn't appreciated. Look, IF I'm right (and that's one big if), we don't know what kind of treatment she underwent later on or what stimuli she weaned herself off from. Not to mention that JR was around a whole lot more. (Don't ANYBODY take that the wrong way!)



No one, but that seems to be the implication. That was a big point of me starting this thread: the mentally disturbed aren't as easy to spot as we think.

But that is an assumption, too.

If Joni hadn't been murdered, what evidence would you point to that Patsy had UMI?

Mentally ill people do not have a greater risk of committing violent crimes.


Fang, you watch her interviews and tell me it's just my opinion that she was heavily medicated. And as for what it means if she was medicated, maybe nothing. But maybe it was her way of keeping under control.

May be she was in excruciating pain over the tragic death of her only daughter.



Your humor eludes me.

No humor. I would appreciate the input of any parents who have experienced the indescribable brutality that we, that I, pontificate on without a hint what it was really like.
 
  • #337
Its no better, SD. Beheading a small child wasn't a popular fear. Executing a child wasn't a popular fear. Kidnapping for ransom was no more or less popular at that time. That the RN author wanted to appear to play on popular fears can't be substantiated. Maybe it would help you to list some popular fears, and then decide if the ransom note had any.

Do you really believe the RN author thought the RN would appear as terrorism?

I would think kidnapping a child is always a fear for any parents. It need not be in "vogue" or a popular fear. I just think the beheading part was intended to make people believe it WAS a foreigner. Too bad nothing else in the note sounded foreign.
 
  • #338
No humor. I would appreciate the input of any parents who have experienced the indescribable brutality that we, that I, pontificate on without a hint what it was really like.

...frantically hoping the phone would ring. Those hopes finally dashed when...
 
  • #339
I would think kidnapping a child is always a fear for any parents. It need not be in "vogue" or a popular fear. I just think the beheading part was intended to make people believe it WAS a foreigner. Too bad nothing else in the note sounded foreign.

Re: SD unsubstantial claim that the RN author 'played on popular fears'. I suggest making a list of fears that were popular at the time, and then reading the ransom note to see if it has any.
 
  • #340

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