JBR, PR and UMI

[Holdontoyourhat]

For the 99th time: cause of death, ligature strangulation with associated head trauma, according to the autopsy.

Headbash: no accident. That is your opinion that it was "no accident." My opinion is it very well could have been accidental, especially since one or more on-the-scene investigators believe it was accidental. My opinion is that, based on physics, her head struck an object, not vice versa.

OK you believe that JBR had an unplanned, unfortunate accident that resulted in a fractured skull ON THE SAME NIGHT somebody strangled her to death. Man, I don't know what to say. You're entitled to your opinion, I guess?

 

[BOESP]

OK you believe that JBR had an unplanned, unfortunate accident that resulted in a fractured skull ON THE SAME NIGHT somebody strangled her to death. Man, I don't know what to say. You're entitled to your opinion, I guess?

Yes, I'm entitled to my opinion. That opinion includes an accidental injury that appeared to be mortal that was followed by a clumsy attempt to cover up a child homicide by a desperate offender who didn't want to die in the pen and do without the lifestyle and family ties to which they had become accustomed.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Yes, I'm entitled to my opinion. That opinion includes an accidental injury that appeared to be mortal that was followed by a clumsy attempt to cover up a child homicide by a desperate offender who didn't want to die in the pen and do without the lifestyle and family ties to which they had become accustomed.

Since when is an accidental injury a child homicide?

..."a desperate offender who didn't want to die in the pen and do without the lifestyle and family ties to which they had become accustomed."

This diatribe could be applied to anybody. Its generic, almost filler. Is this propaganda, used only to sway public opinion?

 

[DeeDee249]

OK you believe that JBR had an unplanned, unfortunate accident that resulted in a fractured skull ON THE SAME NIGHT somebody strangled her to death. Man, I don't know what to say. You're entitled to your opinion, I guess?

Many people believe the head bash was accidental. And I am sure there are many people who believe it was deliberate. We do not know for a fact that she was strangled to death, as the autopsy lists both the ligature and the head bash as causes of death without stating which came first or whether one contributed more to her death than the other.

NO one believes she was accidentally bashed by the parents and while she lay unconscious an intruder broke in and strangled her after sexually assaulting her.

 

[DeeDee249]

Yeah, I think we are giving her lots of leeway, actually.

put your mom's name everywhere you see Patsy's.

Was her mother a suspect in a murder or under an "umbrella of suspicion" (LE's words, not mine)?

Didn't think so.

 

[BBB167893]

Since when is an accidental injury a child homicide?

That doesn't matter. What she THOUGHT they'd do to her is what matters.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Many people believe the head bash was accidental. And I am sure there are many people who believe it was deliberate. We do not know for a fact that she was strangled to death, as the autopsy lists both the ligature and the head bash as causes of death without stating which came first or whether one contributed more to her death than the other.

NO one believes she was accidentally bashed by the parents and while she lay unconscious an intruder broke in and strangled her after sexually assaulting her.

We do know for a fact she was strangled to death. All any reasonable person needs to know is petechial hemorrhaging and ligature furrow. Its all right there in the autopsy, but RDI understandably ignores that part because it blows chunks thru their theory.

 

[DeeDee249]

Lets just get this said once and for all. This is a crime forum. EVERYTHING said here is speculation because the crime is still unsolved. We have a limited amount of factual information that is confirmed and undisputed. We have to base our opinions on what we read. There will always be a variety of opinions on both sides of a case, even one that has been tried. If that isn't something you feel comfortable with then this type of forum isn't for you.

Speculating on Patsy's mental illness is not the same as saying she was mentally ill. It indicates a belief that she could have been. Whether the result of her treatments or prescriptions she was taking, these things are known to be a trigger in SOME people.
MANY drugs carry warnings about erratic, suicidal or aggressive behavior. Some sleep aids do too. Doesn't mean everyone will experience it, but the possibility has to be considered when there has been an event of this type.
All posters here seem to be intelligent people. You know very well what I am saying here. Twisting it and calling disgraceful the suggestion that there may have been some underlying cause for Patsy's behavior that was beyond her control is anything but disgraceful. It is realistic and IMO, indicates Patsy was a victim too.

 

[BOESP]

Since when is an accidental injury a child homicide?

..."a desperate offender who didn't want to die in the pen and do without the lifestyle and family ties to which they had become accustomed."

This diatribe could be applied to anybody. Its generic, almost filler. Is this propaganda, used only to sway public opinion?

Check out the definitions of "child" and "homicide" if my meaning isn't clear to you.

 

[OneLove]

We do know for a fact she was strangled to death. All any reasonable person needs to know is petechial hemorrhaging and ligature furrow. Its all right there in the autopsy, but RDI understandably ignores that part because it blows chunks thru their theory.

Is there some reason you cannot or do not read the posts that explain this from a RDI perspective? Because your statement is just blatantly untrue. Yet you persist in trying to convince *who?* of this?

 

[my_tee_mouse]

Lets just get this said once and for all. This is a crime forum. EVERYTHING said here is speculation because the crime is still unsolved. We have a limited amount of factual information that is confirmed and undisputed. We have to base our opinions on what we read. There will always be a variety of opinions on both sides of a case, even one that has been tried. If that isn't something you feel comfortable with then this type of forum isn't for you.

Speculating on Patsy's mental illness is not the same as saying she was mentally ill. It indicates a belief that she could have been. Whether the result of her treatments or prescriptions she was taking, these things are known to be a trigger in SOME people.
MANY drugs carry warnings about erratic, suicidal or aggressive behavior. Some sleep aids do too. Doesn't mean everyone will experience it, but the possibility has to be considered when there has been an event of this type.
All posters here seem to be intelligent people. You know very well what I am saying here. Twisting it and calling disgraceful the suggestion that there may have been some underlying cause for Patsy's behavior that was beyond her control is anything but disgraceful. It is realistic and IMO, indicates Patsy was a victim too.

Exactly. If anything, we are attempting to see her as something other than a cold-blooded, heartless, vicious killer.

 

[BBB167893]

Lets just get this said once and for all. This is a crime forum. EVERYTHING said here is speculation because the crime is still unsolved. We have a limited amount of factual information that is confirmed and undisputed. We have to base our opinions on what we read. There will always be a variety of opinions on both sides of a case, even one that has been tried. If that isn't something you feel comfortable with then this type of forum isn't for you.

Speculating on Patsy's mental illness is not the same as saying she was mentally ill. It indicates a belief that she could have been. Whether the result of her treatments or prescriptions she was taking, these things are known to be a trigger in SOME people.
MANY drugs carry warnings about erratic, suicidal or aggressive behavior. Some sleep aids do too. Doesn't mean everyone will experience it, but the possibility has to be considered when there has been an event of this type.
All posters here seem to be intelligent people. You know very well what I am saying here. Twisting it and calling disgraceful the suggestion that there may have been some underlying cause for Patsy's behavior that was beyond her control is anything but disgraceful. It is realistic and IMO, indicates Patsy was a victim too.

Exactly. If anything, we are attempting to see her as something other than a cold-blooded, heartless, vicious killer.

FINALLY! SOMEONE's got it right!

 

[joeskidbeck]

We do know for a fact she was strangled to death. All any reasonable person needs to know is petechial hemorrhaging and ligature furrow. Its all right there in the autopsy, but RDI understandably ignores that part because it blows chunks thru their theory.

It does not blow chunks thru my theory. You've probably never read my theory as it does not involve a 5th person in the house that night. I believe the stangulation was the cod and it was deliberate. I also believe that Patsy is NOT the person who did that.

I believe we can each have our own theories and opinions without trying to make others feel ignorant. If I have ever made anyone feel as though their opinion is not worthy to be posted, please accept my apology. It was not intenional.

When (and if) the Boulder PD and prosecutors office finally release all of the evidence, I probably will change my opinion. No way to tell for sure, though.

 

[OneLove]

It does not blow chunks thru my theory. You've probably never read my theory as it does not involve a 5th person in the house that night. I believe the stangulation was the cod and it was deliberate. I also believe that Patsy is NOT the person who did that.

JKB, can you elaborate on your theory, and if you do not want to, could you point me to a thread where I might read about it? I would love to read your thoughts on this. Thanks.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Is there some reason you cannot or do not read the posts that explain this from a RDI perspective? Because your statement is just blatantly untrue. Yet you persist in trying to convince *who?* of this?

Explaining that petechial hemorrhaging and ligature furrow are the result of accidental death, is a little bit like explaining how 2 equals 3. I just can't see the logic because there is none.

RDI is an emotional choice, not a rational one. Dont need DNA to know that there was intent to kill JBR.

 

[DeeDee249]

It does not blow chunks thru my theory. You've probably never read my theory as it does not involve a 5th person in the house that night. I believe the stangulation was the cod and it was deliberate. I also believe that Patsy is NOT the person who did that.

JKB, can you elaborate on your theory, and if you do not want to, could you point me to a thread where I might read about it? I would love to read your thoughts on this. Thanks.

There is a thread at the very top of the thread page marked "MEMBERS' THEORIES". Most of us have put our theories there. If JKB hasn't maybe she'd like to do it for you. If not, you can always send a PM request.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

It does not blow chunks thru my theory. You've probably never read my theory as it does not involve a 5th person in the house that night. I believe the stangulation was the cod and it was deliberate. I also believe that Patsy is NOT the person who did that.

I believe we can each have our own theories and opinions without trying to make others feel ignorant. If I have ever made anyone feel as though their opinion is not worthy to be posted, please accept my apology. It was not intenional.

When (and if) the Boulder PD and prosecutors office finally release all of the evidence, I probably will change my opinion. No way to tell for sure, though.

Right. Intent to kill. Now where's the motive?

 

[joeskidbeck]

It does not blow chunks thru my theory. You've probably never read my theory as it does not involve a 5th person in the house that night. I believe the stangulation was the cod and it was deliberate. I also believe that Patsy is NOT the person who did that.

JKB, can you elaborate on your theory, and if you do not want to, could you point me to a thread where I might read about it? I would love to read your thoughts on this. Thanks.

Thanks OL, to make a long theory short, it's my opinion that something happened that night (very soon after they arrived home) that sent Patsy over the edge. It doesn't have to be a toileting issue, but I feel like it probably was. I just saw the photos of JB's bathroom a few moments ago (going to post the link for you in another thread) and I feel like, in her rage, Patsy flung (or slung) JB into the bathroom and she hit her head on probably, the bathtub. Both the vanity and the tub have very sharp edges (looks like the tub may have a ceramic tile enclosure), but with enough momentum, I have no doubt that tub could have caused her head injury. JB had already eaten the pineapple. I think that she and Burke had a snack as soon as they got home and I don't think JB would have been allowed to have something to drink (Burke would have, hence the tea glass). When Patsy saw what the accident had done to JB, she probably started to scream uncontrollably, which brought JR and possibly BR to come running. At this point, BR was sent to bed and J & PR started trying to decide what to do. A brain injury as severe as the one JB had would surely have meant brain death (take a look at her skull in the autopsy photos, if you can). This, to me, made P & JR believe their little girl was dead so they started the staging for a cover up. A lot of other things went on but to make this shorter, I believe that John handled the strangulation in order for the cause of death to be obvious when she was found. Maybe he believed there would not be an autopsy or that they just would not find the head wound. At one time I kinda believed he knew that she was still alive when he strangled her (even if brain dead), but something SD said in one of his posts (sorry, can't remember which one right now) made me believe otherwise. So sorry for the long post! I made it as short as I could.
Becky

 

[joeskidbeck]

There is a thread at the very top of the thread page marked "MEMBERS' THEORIES". Most of us have put our theories there. If JKB hasn't maybe she'd like to do it for you. If not, you can always send a PM request.

Sorry, DeeDee. I had already posted my theory before I saw your reply. Mine is on there from awhile back and I changed it some since then.
Becky

 

[joeskidbeck]

Can the mods or anyone tell me if I can move my post above (theory) to the Member's Theories thread?
TIA
Joeskidbeck