Jian Ghomeshi, well known, well respected radio host fired for Sexual Assault

[Ardy]

http://canadalandshow.com/article/why-did-jian-ghomeshi-keep-lucy-decouteres-letter

Interesting link. The information should be passed to the Crown.

 

[bluesneakers]

Fwiw, JG kept those letters and pics for his own protection imo. He knew what he was doing was wrong and that it might bite him some day. Jmo.

I think he also kept them if for whatever reason he wanted to threaten, frighten, coerce, etc., one of his victims, not necessarily in a court of law.

 

[matou]

If you read the Canadaland article, Jian texts a woman back telling her she consented and to reread her texts. He keeps a trail to use against the women who dare to confront him.

 

[matou]

Is he sitting in court with Big Ears or is the rumour true that he threw out his stuffy after the allegations became public?

 

[Ardy]

According to the Huffington Post there were 26 allegations against Ghomeshi.

Of those, the Crown narrowed it down to taking 6 to trial.

2 of those were withdrawn for lack of a reasonable prospect of conviction, 2 of the witnesses in this trial have been thoroughly discredited and only 1 is left in this trial and 1 in a later trial.

Out of 26 allegations, Ghomeshi is down to defending against the 2 left and one of those may be embroiled in a discovery problem.

One wonders if further charges could be brought forward, or would the Crown be reluctant to go down this path again if they lose ?

 

[otto]

According to the Huffington Post there were 26 allegations against Ghomeshi.

Of those, the Crown narrowed it down to taking 6 to trial.

2 of those were withdrawn for lack of a reasonable prospect of conviction, 2 of the witnesses in this trial have been thoroughly discredited and only 1 is left in this trial and 1 in a later trial.

Out of 26 allegations, Ghomeshi is down to defending against the 2 left and one of those may be embroiled in a discovery problem.

One wonders if further charges could be brought forward, or would the Crown be reluctant to go down this path again if they lose ?

I suspect that if the first two witnesses had been more forthcoming about the facts, they would not be part of the case against Ghomeshi either.

 

[Woodland]

According to the Huffington Post there were 26 allegations against Ghomeshi.

Of those, the Crown narrowed it down to taking 6 to trial.

2 of those were withdrawn for lack of a reasonable prospect of conviction, 2 of the witnesses in this trial have been thoroughly discredited and only 1 is left in this trial and 1 in a later trial.

Out of 26 allegations, Ghomeshi is down to defending against the 2 left and one of those may be embroiled in a discovery problem.

One wonders if further charges could be brought forward, or would the Crown be reluctant to go down this path again if they lose ?

Whether it's 26 different women making allegations or 26 different allegations - is that something one could expect at some point in ones life? As in stuff happens?

What's more than a little interesting to me is, how difficult the allegations are to prove - like he knew at what point he should stop - until the pics that got him fired which I don't think are public or that they ever will be - and that he kept all the correspondence he had with the women making allegations.

 

[Crosby87]

I’d like to know how Jian Ghomeshi responded to the letters and gifts Lucy DeCoutere sent him.
I read he stopped seeing her and didn’t contact her but they did go on a date together so where are the messages (texts and/or phone calls) Jian sent Lucy? Did Jian call and thank Lucy for the flowers? Did he send her any gifts? Did he reply to Lucy’s email in which she asks him to spend time with her in Banff? They must have exchanged messages so where are Jian’s? He has more information imo. Did he stop seeing Lucy so he could seek out women that would consent to having rough sex with him?

If Jian’s and his partners discussed having rough sex together, wouldn’t he tell them they could physically assault him and do what he did to them? Where is the equality? Was he fair?

 

[otto]

I’d like to know how Jian Ghomeshi responded to the letters and gifts Lucy DeCoutere sent him.
I read he stopped seeing her and didn’t contact her but they did go on a date together so where are the messages (texts and/or phone calls) Jian sent Lucy? Did Jian call and thank Lucy for the flowers? Did he send her any gifts? Did he reply to Lucy’s email in which she asks him to spend time with her in Banff? They must have exchanged messages so where are Jian’s? He has more information imo. Did he stop seeing Lucy so he could seek out women that would consent to having rough sex with him?

If Jian’s and his partners discussed having rough sex together, wouldn’t he tell them they could physically assault him and do what he did to them? Where is the equality? Was he fair?

I too have wondered where Ghomeshi's texts and emails are. We know that the crown did not have any information about the post-assault correspondence last week, and the defence has no obligation to disclose, so perhaps there is no independent record of the email and text. I suspect that the Crown has been scrambling all weekend to track down the complete conversations so they have something to offer to bolster Lucy's credibility.

Regarding equity in sadism/masochism, not that I know anything about it, isn't it a role play where people have a preferred role of either sadist or masochist? Ghomeshi is the sadist, and it seems that he groomed women to try the masochist role. Some have suggested that although he discussed "rough sex" with women, he did not have a "safe" word. I'm not convinced that the absence of a safe word means that the women did not, in one form or another, consent. I'm getting the impression that although they did consent to try rough sex, none of them were comfortable with their decision once they understood it meant being choked or hit in the head, but at the same time they didn't know how to get around their agreement to try the rough sex.

I would be surprised if the defence introduced email statements where Ghomeshi extracts, perhaps by coercion and manipulation, an agreement to try rough sex, as the coercion probably does look like 'grooming'.

 

[RandomName479]

In Jian's case, I believe the women were prepared to give him a second chance because his violent behavior was in direct contrast to his on-air, on-screen persona.
I was a Jian fan, I'll admit it. We (and I think I speak for most Canadians and many overseas) felt like we knew the guy. He was sensitive and charismatic and he stood up to the bullying Billy Bob Thornton with such graceful aplomb. He was gentle and seemed genuine. With his on-air guests, he asked the questions we all wanted to ask. We thought we knew him and the kind of guy he was, and we liked him.

When the first accusation against him came out years ago by a wannabe journalist, well, it just smacked of attention-seeking sensationalism and the possible financial gain of hush-money. Even in her account she seemed to encourage him after she sensed something "off". It is a real shame that this account fell on deaf ears because of its 'teen fiction' quality. Of course, later the flood gates opened and her voice was one of many.
Disbelief and heartbreak.

So no, I don't think the victims do believe that they can change the abuser's behavior... - I think they see the behavior as an aberration to the norm -'Jian, the good guy'.

Of course this is just my take on the mindset of the victims (personally I would have run a mile at the first not-so-gentle tug of my hair).

This.....exactly....

 

[Crosby87]

Closed-door hearing at Ghomeshi Trial to Deal with New Evidence Disclosed Friday

TORONTO - The judge in the sexual assault trial of Jian Ghomeshi is holding a closed-door hearing to deal with new evidence that came to light over the weekend.

The in-camera hearing was requested by Ghomeshi's lawyer, who said the third complainant expected to testify against the disgraced broadcaster gave a statement to police on Friday that was not fully disclosed to the defence until Sunday.

Marie Henein said the complainant, who cannot be named, gave the statement after hearing media reports about the trial, which she wasn't supposed to do.

Read more at: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/ghomeshi-back-court-second-week-trial-090035994.html

 

[Crosby87]

Ghomeshi emails reveal growing importance of 'digital debris' to Trials

<copied)

While 13 years is a bit further back than most people's saved correspondence stretches, Fraser said it's increasingly common to hang on to emails forever, given that web-based clients like Gmail, Yahoo Mail and Hotmail have practically unlimited storage space.

"It's a whole lot easier to keep it than it is to make the effort to decide what to delete," he said.

Only a few lines of Ghomeshi's replies have been read out by the defence and the Crown has not indicated that it has digital dirt on the former CBC Radio host. It may not be too late for the Crown to seek a search warrant for Ghomeshi's emails, if it hasn't already, Fraser said.

He said it's common sense in 2016 for lawyers to ask themselves if there's a likelihood that there's relevant electronic evidence &#8212; be it emails, text messages, social media posts, Yelp reviews or Foursquare check-ins.

"In our day-to-day lives we leave so much digital debris that some of that could be relevant in a criminal case or a civil trial."

An entire industry called e-discovery or digital forensics has sprung up to assist lawyers in cases where deeper online digging is needed.

Richard Morochove runs a company called Morochove & Associates that does computer forensics investigation. He said emails are the most common digital documents that he's asked to search for or scrutinize.

"It's usually quite simple. Usually, the email is saved by somebody somewhere," he said. "Sometimes, even when someone thinks they've deleted an email from their computer, it's not deleted.

"We have various forensic tools we can use to go in and un-delete emails, to be able to look at things that appear to be gone but are actually still there."

Ronald Cenfetelli, chair in management information systems at the University of British Columbia's Sauder School of Business, said many corporations keep back-ups of email data for years.

Many email clients require users to manually delete items from a "Trash" folder, and of course, there's nothing to stop a recipient from forwarding an email to five other people, he said.

"You can create a million perfect copies of an email that would be pretty cumbersome to do with a piece of paper," he said. "With emails, there can be ghosts or shadows that sort of reverberate out there."

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/ghomeshi-...portance-digital-debris-trials-181508911.html

 

[Crosby87]

I wonder if Jian sought out men to have rough sex with? If not, why did he always choose women over men?

 

[RandomName479]

I wonder if Jian sought out men to have rough sex with? If not, why did he always choose women over men?

not trying to be cheeky.....do we know that Jian was bisexual?

 

[dotr]

The woman, who can not be identified, says they had been previously introduced &#8220;in passing&#8221;, but she didn&#8217;t really know him until the festival.

She says he approached her from behind, rested his arms on her shoulders, and when asked by someone how they knew each other, Ghomeshi said &#8220;We&#8217;re engaged.&#8221;

The woman says she went out with him for dinner one night during the festival, and later met him in an isolated part of a nearby park where she says they made out.

She says that at some point, while he was kissing her, she felt his hand and his teeth on her shoulder before his hands moved around her neck.

The complainant says she felt like a switch had happened and Ghomeshi was no longer the same person. When she tried to free herself from his hold, she says he put his hand on her mouth, &#8220;sort of smothering&#8221; her.

No words were exchanged and the woman says she left the park, got on a cab and went home.

After the alleged incident, the woman says she met Ghomeshi again for dinner and drinks and then they went back to her place for &#8220;romantic&#8221; interactions.

http://www.citynews.ca/2016/02/08/third-woman-testifies-ghomeshi-put-hands-around-neck-kissing/

 

[dotr]

I wonder if Jian sought out men to have rough sex with? If not, why did he always choose women over men?

The Star reports a male former student at York University came forward with allegations against Ghomeshi from over 25 years ago. Jim Hounslow told the paper Ghomeshi &#8220;grabbed my genitals and fondled them&#8221; when the ex-CBC host was president of the student federation.

http://www.citynews.ca/2016/02/08/third-woman-testifies-ghomeshi-put-hands-around-neck-kissing/




Reposting 2014 article..
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/j...-away-with-it/

Men saw Ghomeshi as a &#8220;douchebag&#8221; with an incredible ego, says a male student who knew him at the time: &#8220;Maybe we despised him because he figured out how to use feminism to f&#8211;k women. It was obvious to many of us that he was strategically using that kind of sensitive, new-age guy, feminist guy. He was playing the role. He really, really needed a lot of attention.&#8221;

Student politics can be vicious, and some of his critics joked about creating a mock poster featuring a photograph of Ghomeshi hugging a woman with a smile on his face, Lawson recalls: &#8220;The wording on it was going to be, &#8216;Ever think about sleeping with men?&#8217; &#8221; And at the bottom, it was going to say: &#8216;Think again.&#8217; &#8221;

 

[Crosby87]

I too have wondered where Ghomeshi's texts and emails are. We know that the crown did not have any information about the post-assault correspondence last week, and the defence has no obligation to disclose, so perhaps there is no independent record of the email and text. I suspect that the Crown has been scrambling all weekend to track down the complete conversations so they have something to offer to bolster Lucy's credibility.

Regarding equity in sadism/masochism, not that I know anything about it, isn't it a role play where people have a preferred role of either sadist or masochist? Ghomeshi is the sadist, and it seems that he groomed women to try the masochist role. Some have suggested that although he discussed "rough sex" with women, he did not have a "safe" word. I'm not convinced that the absence of a safe word means that the women did not, in one form or another, consent. I'm getting the impression that although they did consent to try rough sex, none of them were comfortable with their decision once they understood it meant being choked or hit in the head, but at the same time they didn't know how to get around their agreement to try the rough sex.

I would be surprised if the defence introduced email statements where Ghomeshi extracts, perhaps by coercion and manipulation, an agreement to try rough sex, as the coercion probably does look like 'grooming'.

People who engage in sadism/masochism behaviors openly discuss what will take place and reach an agreement before they meet. They identify the role(s) they each want to play, what they are allowed to do, and where the best place to meet is.

JG does play the role of a sadist but the women who testified didn’t know he likes to rough house women so Jian didn't warn them in advance or tell them to expect this type of behavior from him. By not doing so, it seems to me Jian was acting irresponsible and endangering the lives of others.

 

[Crosby87]

All three witnesses told the Court Jian attacked them while he was kissing them.

<snipped>

Before DeCoutere's testimony, the trial heard from the first complainant in the case who alleged Ghomeshi suddenly yanked on her hair while they were kissing in his car, and on another night, pulled her hair and punched her in the head while they were kissing in his living room.

DeCoutere testified that Ghomeshi suddenly started choking and slapping her while they were kissing in his bedroom in the summer of 2003 and the third witness said while Jian was kissing her, she felt his hand and his teeth on her shoulder before his hands moved around her neck.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ghomeshi+back+court+second+week+trial/11704861/story.html

 

[Ardy]

For the second time while the trial was in progress, the complainants have issued a new statement to the police just before they testify.

This gives the defense no chance to properly investigate the new information. Marie Henein says she feels like it is the "twilight zone".

The new witness stated that she and Lucy DeCoutere discussed the case together before the trial and heard a media report on previous testimony.

Witnesses are not allowed to listen to media reports and discuss their testimony with other witnesses.

The trial carried on after a closed door hearing with the Judge regarding all this and I suspect (speculation based on events in other trials) the defense was given the option of applying for a mistrial, which would have been granted or continuing with the trial and filing for an appeal if Ghomeshi is convicted.

If the defense believe they have a solid case so far, they would continue with the trial, confident in the likely success of an appeal if necessary.

Marie Henein is considered the top defense lawyer in Canada and is also an expert appeal lawyer. She thoroughly knows what she is doing.

At this point, the Crown is stuck between a rock and hard place. They can withdraw all charges or continue with the trial and hope to win the trial and a subsequent appeal.

It looks like Ghomeshi will now either...........win the trial or wait for the appeal some months or years in the future.

Unfortunately Ghomeshi's guilt or innocence verdict has been sidetracked in this trial by the conduct of the complainants.

 

[Ardy]

Personally, I agree that Ghomeshi stalked women for rough sex, and then enticed them into emails and correspondence that made it appear they were consenting to the behavour in case he needed to defend himself at a later date. There were 26 complaints against him and who knows how many more women didn't step forward. The Crown selected these cases as their strongest for conviction, and they were bushwhacked by poor conduct from the complainants that wasn't divulged to the Crown until the middle of the trial.

Knowing his sexual appetite was walking a tight line, Ghomeshi was thinking ahead. That doesn't alleviate the fact that his mind set was twisted by his desire.

But.........this trial isn't going to punish Ghomeshi. It is a textbook case of everything that you DON'T do in a sexual assault case if you want to win it in court.

Perhaps there will be more in the future. Time will tell........but for now Ghomeshi walks free either with not guilty verdict or a pending appeal.