Jodi Arias Murder Trial - the defense continues it's case in chief-*Weekend* #89

[minor4th]

Awesome!!! I thought so, but was still feeling a little nervous. I didn't think he'd throw both ideas out there like that if he wasn't sure about it!

I bet Nurmi is pizzed!! I'm sure JA is holding to her lie about returning the 3rd can, even to him, and he's getting blindsided! I bet she's regretting lying about this now! She was already admitting to 2 gas cans....

I can hear them now.... Just because they don't have a record of it being returned, doesn't mean it wasn't. JA will claim an employee made an error or the skaters did it!

I can't wait for rebuttal!!!! Solid evidence that she lied under oath and directly to the jury! Oh and about one of JM's premeditation points! Aaaahhhh!!! :rocker:



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I feel a teensy bit sorry for Nurmi because his client is obviously not telling him the truth or being forthcoming with him, and that causes this kind of "surprise" at trial. It is a very uncomfortable position for a lawyer to be in.

Oh well ...

 

[MeeBee]

Tanisha posted on the FB site that the "criminal record" issue was already discussed yesterday and it's cleared up. It won't come in. That one also read like the state was holding something back. Nice try Nurmi!!!

ITA about JM. He knows what he's doing and there's no way he'd do something that could cause problems.


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Thanks so much KB. They had to know it was a long shot!

 

[minor4th]

I didn't think that was something a prosecutor would do. And I don't think Juan is that stupid to blow his case. He only went after it after she lied about it. So it should be allowed in. The only ones playing games here is the DT.

Now about Travis' "record": this can't possibly be allowed in, right, since it's not even him? Will the judge disallow it or will she let it in and leave it up to Martinez to clear it up? I think I already know the answer but I'm just curious to know what you think? Thanks!

Someone posted that it will not be allowed, that the issue has already been decided. That is what I would have predicted, since it can be established that it was not Travis' criminal history.

Even if it was Travis', I don't think it would be allowed in.

 

[MeeBee]

I feel a teensy bit sorry for Nurmi because his client is obviously not telling him the truth or being forthcoming with him, and that causes this kind of "surprise" at trial. It is a very uncomfortable position for a lawyer to be in.

Oh well ...

I get the feeling he is telling her to please stop adding so many unnecessary details, etc. because you are opening too many windows to the other side and she just will not listen. She thinks she is so clever. He seems exasperated with her.

 

[tinkabella]

Awesome!!! I thought so, but was still feeling a little nervous. I didn't think he'd throw both ideas out there like that if he wasn't sure about it!

I bet Nurmi is pizzed!! I'm sure JA is holding to her lie about returning the 3rd can, even to him, and he's getting blindsided! I bet she's regretting lying about this now! She was already admitting to 2 gas cans....

I can hear them now.... Just because they don't have a record of it being returned, doesn't mean it wasn't. JA will claim an employee made an error or the skaters did it!

I can't wait for rebuttal!!!! Solid evidence that she lied under oath and directly to the jury! Oh and about one of JM's premeditation points! Aaaahhhh!!! :rocker:



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any lie that she feels cannot be disproven she holds onto. Just like her finger and the gun situation. all of it from the outside looks like a lie but to Jodi she has one up on everyone. She cannot see the forest for the trees. Once the information from the gas station comes in she will be once again be shown to be a liar to everyone including the jury. I read Nurmi's motion and he said that Jodi will "address the egregrious nature of the conduct that the state has chosen to engage in other pleadings" What does that mean? will she take the stand and "correct" her statements about the gas cans? "Now that the fog has lifted I remember having 3 gas cans" or something like that. I can't wait for the rebuttal.

 

[tinkabella]

Her feet look filthy, and why is she bare footed during a police interrogation?

Minor4th,

Do you think Jodi was going for the insanity defense in the interrogation video? Or just acting out for the cameras. Her behavior was so strange. The talking to herself, singing that crazy "here with me" song by dido (please watch the video for that song) digging through the trash, the handstand, the laughing....

Also Jodi claimed that after the bodyslam/struggle in the bathroom that her shoulder was hurt and would never heal but then we have her doing handstands in the interrogation room and yoga stretching..can this be used in rebuttal since the jury has not seen this version of the interrogation?

 

[Melly53]

I am not trying to be difficult or argumentative in any way, I am just not able to find the specific statements that I had bolded in any of the exchanged text messages between TA and JA. Yes, some of the statements are there, but those are not the ones that I bolded. Again, I am not trying to be difficult, I just cannot find where TA sent any messages saying:

"unless it`s an apology and a thank you for constantly having to take on your ever-ceasing problems. Not one freaking more.

I`m sick of your soap opera and your ways. You purposely try to ruin every day. It seems you`re getting good at it."

"It made me feel not good, I guess. It made me feel yucky."

"I’m sick of you playing stupid and dealing with your childish issues. Bitter feelings are brewing in me for you, and if it keeps up I fear I will have a genuine dislike for you before I have a revenge.

"You don't care about anything that doesn't involve you, and I'm sick of it, and I don't want to deal with any of it. It's wearing me out and if it continues, just like I have to give you motivation to tell me the truth I'll give you motivation to quit screwing with me."

Unless these are found in JA's journal or the messaging between Ryan Burns and JA, I do not see these statements. And if they are in her journals or in messages with RB, then they are not texts from TA.

This does appear in the link that you were given. These are all from the text messages that TA sent JA on 5/26/08 IIRC. TA sent multiple messages to her that day because he was limited by the phone as to how long one text message could be. The parts you are looking for appear towards the end of the messages for 5/26.

http://s1352.beta.photobucket.com/user/tabularasa6/media/cs73_zps99146eec.jpg.html?sort=3&o=55

Use this link and start at the very beginning of the photos. Then click the right arrow 16 times and you should be on the section that contains at least part of what you are looking for. Someone a few days ago managed to put together the entire exchange between JA and TA and posted it for us but I can't ell you which thread it was on. Do a WS search on the words : "Do not call me. And do not text me anything. " which was the beginning of the texts from TA and it should bring it up.

 

[KBisMe]

any lie that she feels cannot be disproven she holds onto. Just like her finger and the gun situation. all of it from the outside looks like a lie but to Jodi she has one up on everyone. She cannot see the forest for the trees. Once the information from the gas station comes in she will be once again be shown to be a liar to everyone including the jury. I read Nurmi's motion and he said that Jodi will "address the egregrious nature of the conduct that the state has chosen to engage in other pleadings" What does that mean? will she take the stand and "correct" her statements about the gas cans? "Now that the fog has lifted I remember having 3 gas cans" or something like that. I can't wait for the rebuttal.

I don't know how to bold from my phone, but re: the other pleadings...

I took it like they are pizzed, but are only asking for the evidence to be shared....for now. Maybe Nurmi will file a motion later to try and have it excluded... Or another accusation of prosecutorial misconduct... Or maybe she'll try to use it later in appeals.

Maybe it will depend on the details of the reports. The date on the Tesora email, when JM requested the reports, etc. Who knows.

Maybe Minor could give a better idea of what he means.


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[Melly53]

Minor4th,

Do you think Jodi was going for the insanity defense in the interrogation video? Or just acting out for the cameras. Her behavior was so strange. The talking to herself, singing that crazy "here with me" song by dido (please watch the video for that song) digging through the trash, the handstand, the laughing....

Also Jodi claimed that after the bodyslam/struggle in the bathroom that her shoulder was hurt and would never heal but then we have her doing handstands in the interrogation room and yoga stretching..can this be used in rebuttal since the jury has not seen this version of the interrogation?

I'm not Minor4th but I think she was trying to mimic Amanda Knox's strange behavior in the Italian police headquarters. I have seen shades of Casey Anthony and Amanda Knox in Jodi when she was on the stand.

 

[KBisMe]

I feel a teensy bit sorry for Nurmi because his client is obviously not telling him the truth or being forthcoming with him, and that causes this kind of "surprise" at trial. It is a very uncomfortable position for a lawyer to be in.

Oh well ...

Oh I'm sure. I'm definitely not a Nurmi fan, but I try to remind myself that he's doing his job to the best of his abilities with the evidence and psycho he's dealing with. JA has to be a nightmare of a client!


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[bsk]

Yes she did. I was surprised as it is a cheap disposable which does not go along (IMO) with old fashioned shaving. I thought she might be lying about that. Since Travis liked nice things, had his jackets tailored with his name on them, I don't see him using a Bic. I should go back and look at the pic of him shaving and see what type of razor he is using. Beside the point now, but probably another of her lies.

Maybe something like these: http://www.theartofshaving.com/razors/razors,default,sc.html

She probably meant "bic" in the generic sense, like bic pen, kleenex, tampax, band-aid, xerox, etc. - the kinds of things where people know that you mean that type of thing, not necessarily that particularly brand of it.

BTW in New Orleans (maybe all of the deep south), the word "coke" is used where others might use "soda" or "pop" or whatever. So a "normal" conversation at a food place could include:
"And I'll have a coke."
"What kind?"
"Do you have Dr Pepper?"

 

[claudicici]

I'm not Minor4th but I think she was trying to mimic Amanda Knox's strange behavior in the Italian police headquarters. I have seen shades of Casey Anthony and Amanda Knox in Jodi when she was on the stand.

In my opinion she was not trying to mimic Amanda Knox,I think they are very much alike actually.I'm not sure if Amanda is innocent either.

 

[katydid23]

Excerpt from the paper Dr. Samuels referenced (Amnesia and Crime):

Malingered Amnesia
Another interpretation of crime-related amnesia acknowledges the likelihood that some offenders intentionally fabricate memory loss to avoid punishment for a crime or for other personal gain. While an early study reported that 20 percent of the offenders claiming amnesia were fabricating the memory loss,73 it has been suggested that the rate of malingering is higher.116 The likelihood of malingered amnesia may be greater in offenders with antisocial personality disorder.31,84 Using polygraphy, Lynch and Bradford84 showed that offenders with antisocial personality disorder have a higher propensity to feign amnesia for crimes, compared with those with no personality disorder or other psychopathologic disorders. It has been suggested that offenders with antisocial personality disorder may be prone to malingering amnesia for crimes in part because of the tendencies of manipulation, habitual deceit, and a general poverty in major affective reactions that characterize this disorder.31,84 Other authors have noted the possible contribution of low intelligence and frontal executive dysfunction to the feigning of amnesia for crimes.3,117 However, as it is possible that highly intelligent malingerers are more adept at feigning amnesia for crimes and may thus evade detection and less frequently receive a diagnosis of malingering, further research may help to clarify a link between low intelligence/frontal executive dysfunction and feigned amnesia.

Furthermore, from the same study: In accepting evidence supporting the validity of amnesia claims, it seems clear that the important issue should be determining how to distinguish between genuine amnesia, whatever the cause, and malingered amnesia in cases raising an index of suspicion. Despite several attempts to solve this dilemma,2,11–13,84 there is still no clear answer.

If anyone is interested in reading more! http://www.jaapl.org/content/35/4/469.full


Are we going to see this in the rebuttal phase? :giggle::giggle::giggle::jail:

 

[minor4th]

I am not trying to be difficult or argumentative in any way, I am just not able to find the specific statements that I had bolded in any of the exchanged text messages between TA and JA. Yes, some of the statements are there, but those are not the ones that I bolded. Again, I am not trying to be difficult, I just cannot find where TA sent any messages saying:

"unless it`s an apology and a thank you for constantly having to take on your ever-ceasing problems. Not one freaking more.

I`m sick of your soap opera and your ways. You purposely try to ruin every day. It seems you`re getting good at it."

"It made me feel not good, I guess. It made me feel yucky."

"I’m sick of you playing stupid and dealing with your childish issues. Bitter feelings are brewing in me for you, and if it keeps up I fear I will have a genuine dislike for you before I have a revenge.

"You don't care about anything that doesn't involve you, and I'm sick of it, and I don't want to deal with any of it. It's wearing me out and if it continues, just like I have to give you motivation to tell me the truth I'll give you motivation to quit screwing with me."

Unless these are found in JA's journal or the messaging between Ryan Burns and JA, I do not see these statements. And if they are in her journals or in messages with RB, then they are not texts from TA.

These were text messages between Travis and Jodi - I saw them when they were shown in trial. Except this one: "It made me feel not good, I guess. It made me feel yucky." That is something Jodi said during her testimony.

You can see part of it here:

 

[KBisMe]

Excerpt from the paper Dr. Samuels referenced (Amnesia and Crime):

Malingered Amnesia
Another interpretation of crime-related amnesia acknowledges the likelihood that some offenders intentionally fabricate memory loss to avoid punishment for a crime or for other personal gain. While an early study reported that 20 percent of the offenders claiming amnesia were fabricating the memory loss,73 it has been suggested that the rate of malingering is higher.116 The likelihood of malingered amnesia may be greater in offenders with antisocial personality disorder.31,84 Using polygraphy, Lynch and Bradford84 showed that offenders with antisocial personality disorder have a higher propensity to feign amnesia for crimes, compared with those with no personality disorder or other psychopathologic disorders. It has been suggested that offenders with antisocial personality disorder may be prone to malingering amnesia for crimes in part because of the tendencies of manipulation, habitual deceit, and a general poverty in major affective reactions that characterize this disorder.31,84 Other authors have noted the possible contribution of low intelligence and frontal executive dysfunction to the feigning of amnesia for crimes.3,117 However, as it is possible that highly intelligent malingerers are more adept at feigning amnesia for crimes and may thus evade detection and less frequently receive a diagnosis of malingering, further research may help to clarify a link between low intelligence/frontal executive dysfunction and feigned amnesia.

Furthermore, from the same study: In accepting evidence supporting the validity of amnesia claims, it seems clear that the important issue should be determining how to distinguish between genuine amnesia, whatever the cause, and malingered amnesia in cases raising an index of suspicion. Despite several attempts to solve this dilemma,2,11–13,84 there is still no clear answer.

If anyone is interested in reading more! http://www.jaapl.org/content/35/4/469.full


Are we going to see this in the rebuttal phase? :giggle::giggle::giggle::jail:

Interesting, but not shocking at all!!! I'm guessing that this part of the article was not part of RS's slide? I couldn't bring myself to watch yesterday.

JM is going to jump all over this!!!

:great:

 

[bsk]

...
I took it like they are pizzed, but are only asking for the evidence to be shared....for now. Maybe Nurmi will file a motion later to try and have it excluded... Or another accusation of prosecutorial misconduct... Or maybe she'll try to use it later in appeals.

Maybe it will depend on the details of the reports. The date on the Tesora email, when JM requested the reports, etc. Who knows.
...

IANAL but it seems like if these receipts were part of discovery then JM met his obligation. If follow-ups resulted because JA lied about them on the stand, then that's Nurmi's tough luck because you don't know what impeachment evidence you need until the person actually tells the lies in court.

But as you said, the timing could be an issue unless this started after she lied about them in court.

 

[minor4th]

Minor4th,

Do you think Jodi was going for the insanity defense in the interrogation video? Or just acting out for the cameras. Her behavior was so strange. The talking to herself, singing that crazy "here with me" song by dido (please watch the video for that song) digging through the trash, the handstand, the laughing....

Also Jodi claimed that after the bodyslam/struggle in the bathroom that her shoulder was hurt and would never heal but then we have her doing handstands in the interrogation room and yoga stretching..can this be used in rebuttal since the jury has not seen this version of the interrogation?

Heck no, Jodi would never allow an insanity defense to be made on her behalf.

I think she's nuts, and that's how she was behaving in the video. She is completely unhinged -- but not in a legally insane way. That was just Jodi being Jodi and not giving a damn how she comes across or having no clue how the rest of the world perceives her.

 

[katydid23]

Interesting, but not shocking at all!!! I'm guessing that this part of the article was not part of RS's slide? I couldn't bring myself to watch yesterday.

JM is going to jump all over this!!!

:great:

I hope that Juan can do damage just by using the same 'research' that Dr Samuels brought over to trial himself. It basically says that there is a greater chance that Jodi is a malingerer than not, and either way, there is no way to determine if she is faking or not. :what:

I don't want him to be abrasive or harsh, like he is with Jodi. She is on trial, so it works for her. But the jury might not like it if he attacks everyone like that.

I hope he can RESPECTFULLY rip the good doctor a new one. :rocker:

 

[nawd68]

Question related to the new interrogation video. The jury has not seen it, correct? If not, why? They've seen portions of the video, including her stretching, right? Did the defense team object to showing the full video? TIA.

 

[nawd68]

Is there somewhere we can read text messages between JA & TA? I've read they exchanged over 82,000 emails. Does anyone know if this is true? That seems like an awful lot of emails.