Jodi Arias TAKES THE STAND #37 *may contain graphic and adult content*

[Cailin Rua]

In this case wikipedia is accurate; there is no psychological diagnosis of psychopathy.
If this is not correct, I would love to read about it from a reputable source.

The Hare checklist is used in criminal justice and it should be noted that
Robert Hare himself has expressed grave concerns regarding the use of his checklist in criminal justice.
http://www.npr.org/2011/05/26/136619689/can-a-test-really-tell-whos-a-psychopath

Correct. If you are doing the five axis diagnosis you can diagnose someone with antisocial personality disorder on Axis II but "psychopathy" is not in the DSM. It is one of the axes that's measured on the MMPI I believe but that's separate from the diagnosis protocol that mental health professionals are expected to follow right now in the US.

The DSM V will change that significantly but I don't recall any mention of "psychopathy" being included as a diagnosis in that edition.

 

[lil_buddy]

From the FBI re. psychopathy:

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/p...portant-forensic-concept-for-the-21st-century
"Psychopathy is not a diagnosis. About one-third of individuals in prison deemed “antisocial personality disordered,” the current official Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) diagnosis for the chronically antisocial, will meet the criteria for severe psychopathy. In DSM’s upcoming fifth edition, psychopathy will become one of five dimensions for describing a personality disorder, receiving the official diagnostic blessing of American psychiatry after approximately one-half century of research."


http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/july-2012/perspective
"Psychopaths’ stalking behaviors tend to be predatory or instrumental in nature. The victim is viewed more as a possession or target for control, retribution, or revenge, rather than as the object of a pathologically based fantasy, obsession, or infatuation.2 Further, psychopaths tend to become bored rather quickly and are thought to engage in short-term stalking with financial goals or those related to power and control."

 

[princesspjs]

I don't think it was speculation on Dr. Horn's part as he stated it as fact.

It has to be speculation because Dr Horn did not have any evidence to inspect besides that badly lit photograph.

If he stated it as fact, I do not believe that portion of his "evidence" because for me...it can only be speculation unless you can see it for yourself, which he did not.

ETA: Since some like to play semantics I thought i should clarify. Yes, Dr Horn's testimony is evidence no matter how he reached his conclusion. I choose to not believe this piece of his testimony because, literally...there is NO WAY for him to be certain if the blood came from his head, neck, chest, foot, whatever...without being able to see it for himself.

 

[princesspjs]

Gravity causes the blood to drip backwards

Thanks!

 

[StephanieHartPI]

She makes errors of "tense" often. Here you see her about to say "I was stern" (with Travis during the assault) stops, corrects herself...


(Detective: seems like from what you are telling me she was the aggressor? and he was the more passive)

Jodi:
I guess so. Ya I mean there was definitely aggression, as far as I mean I don't know what you define as aggression by, its like, I was, there was a sternness

 

[sourgrapes]

If he sat in the shower it was because Jodi was holding a gun. I can see her telling him to sit so she could safely give him a short lecture which included
"'No man treats me this way!!!! No man!!!"

Something else to consider is his supposed 'posing' in the shower, as JA described in one of the interrogation interviews. Since it seems that we agree that JA tells bits of truth in her lies, I'd like to expand on this.

Now, let's go back to her interrogation tape with Flores. She talks about taking photos of Travis in the shower. In summary, she mentioned kneeling near the tub and his posing in the shower like a "Calvin Klein" ad, before the 'ninjas' walked in. She didn't notice them at first, as she was acting as a photographer and giving instructions on how to stand, when to turn, etc; when she was caught off-guard by their presence.

Since we now know that it did not happen the way she says it did; however, many of us want to believe that he did not know she was there taking pictures, until the 'face-shot'. (This, among a few other theories that are similar in his not knowing, or her surprising him while in the shower.)

Okay, back to my original point. Which makes more sense? JA sneaking up on him and her entire statement about taking photos of him being false; or, (knowing what we know now in that there is some truth in her lies) that perhaps he did actually know she was there? Like, perhaps that part of her statement is true in that she was telling him how to stand, when to turn, etc. Like (as minor brought up before about victims made to wash up after crimes, etc), she was instructing him on what to do in that shower, while holding him at gunpoint?

(I hate this theory, btw, as I'd rather think he didn't know what was coming.)

Thoughts?

 

[StephanieHartPI]

Something else to consider is his supposed 'posing' in the shower, as JA described in one of the interrogation interviews. We all seem to agree with JA telling half truths.

Given this knowledge, think about her interrogation tape with Flores; when describing taking photos of Travis in the shower. In summary, she mentioned kneeling near the tub and his posing in the shower like a "Calvin Klein" ad, before the 'ninjas' walked in. She didn't notice them at first, as she was acting as a photographer and giving instructions on how to stand, when to turn, etc; when she was caught off-guard by their presence.

Since we now know that it did not happen the way she says it did; however, many of us want to believe that he did not know she was there, taking pictures, until the 'face-shot'. (This, among a few other theories that are similar in his not knowing, or her surprising him while in the shower.)

Okay, back to my original point. Which what makes more sense? JA sneaking up on him and her entire statement about taking photos of him being false; or, (knowing what we know now in that there is some truth in her lies) that perhaps he did actually know she was there? Like, perhaps that part of her statement is true in that she was telling him how to stand, when to turn, etc. Like (as minor brought up before about victims made to wash up after crimes, etc), she was instructing him on what to do in that shower, while holding him at gunpoint?

(I hate this theory, btw, as I'd rather think he didn't know what was coming.)

Thoughts?

I think he knew she was there and was allowing a few photos to be taken, however I think this is when she caught him off guard, he knelt, or looked down, or crouched for whatever reason. She pulled the gun out and shot.

And I believe he was screaming like she describes (and holding his head) making his way to his knees.

 

[Tracey4AU]

Thanks for posting them. It make my thoughts of the sequence of what happened cleared in my head. I have always thought the picture of Travis sitting on the floor of the shower was taken after she shot him...she thought the shot would kill him, it didn't and Travis was able to get up and make his way to the sink and that's when she stabbed him in the back and she turned and went to the bedroom...he managed to turn around and make it bleeding down the hall going after her or trying to get to a phone....she saw him and then started stabbing him in the front....he went down and she slit his throat....I still have no idea why she put him in the shower. I am probably wrong....but......will we ever really know the truth?

I agree. But you're right, the only person alive to tell is a walking LIE. So, even if she told us a version... could we believe it?

 

[seguek9]

Jodi cut the arteries of his neck. The wound to his neck was cut back almost in line with his ear. Blood would have be gushing out of that wound running down either side of his neck because he was not sitting up. You can see it in the pictures because she is pulling him back towards the bathroom and he is on his back. jmo

IF he was still alive when throat was slit .... blood does not spurt after the heart stops ( I am way behind....I'm sure someone else said this ....:blushing:

ETA: I'm new....of course someone prolly mentioned this...sorry....I'm pages behind...

 

[Sulamith]

Well, your options of actually marrying one of the "wealthy" ones are limited to letting them get to know you, and STILL wanting to marry you.
Her history of dating UP the chain of stable, financially responsible men was evident.
In fact, Wilmont even mentions it in her opening that she was looking for financial security - not love - financial security.

Yet another thing I missed. If I can drag myself away from Netflix, I might re-watch the opening. Is it not unwise to mention your defendant is looking for financial security? I would think so but obviously I am not a lawyer.

 

[getReal]

Ok she does not go into how he got stabbed.

-------------

End of Video 1 Detective is asking her if it makes sense to her they left her alive. She says no it doesn't make any sense. He is confronting her about her cut. He said this is the most far fetched story he has ever heard.

Detective: There is a reason you did this and you refuse to tell me. Maybe its just because you are cold and calculated.

He is asking her where the gun is she said she doesn't have it. He said thats what people say when they "had" it..you used it, I know you have. You touched it.

Jodi: I don't think i've ever fired a gun, I'd done bows and arrows and squirt guns

Detective: So you are going to continue to tell me you didn't do this.

Jodi: I did not kill Travis. I'm not the brightest person. If I was going to hurt Travis I don't think I could stab him, i'd have to shoot him. Continuously until he was dead. I'm not too worried about prints. I wouldn't stab him.

IF IF i had it in me, the least I would have done was make it quick. He was still alive

Detective: Yes he was, he was alive for a while. and I knew that he'd was shot first and possibly tried to get away and fight back.

Jodi: I think he was in shock. He was here, outside the shower.

Detective: then he was here, you pulled him this way and tried to get away and he could not go any further.

Jodi: he said he couldn't move, he said he could not feel his legs.

(at one point she is pointing from maybe the shower to out of the bathroom toward where the big blood puddle is and says something like "it's not really that far")

Detective: this doesn't make any sense

Jodi: ((making arm movements to say he was still conscious up here)) (waving arms) I'm trying to think... he wasn't standing up. He wasn't on his legs on his feet on his knees, he wasn't walking. I'm trying to think .. he could sort of use his legs but he couldn't stand up.

Detective: Just crawling?

Jodi: ya

Detective: You are going to continue with that story

(chit chat between them)

Jodi: I'd still like to say something to his family. Maybe i could write them a letter

Detective: I don't know. I'm not going to provide you with that address. They know where you are and where you're going to be. Next time i see you you'll be in Phoenix, that cool? Well you're going there regardless.

BBM

Thanks for transcribing that, Stephanie.

When Jodi said that she would shoot Travis, and then added "continuously until he was dead", I recall the first time I heard that, I would expect that one would stop after saying that she would shoot him.

One would expect one shot (especially to the head) would complete the deed instantly. BOOM! Deed complete. Maybe rinse the body or leave the water running and leave. Whoever discovers the body would speculate that it was execution style, and nobody would expect JA.

But by adding "continuously until he was dead" is an inadvertent admission that the gun jammed after the one shot and Travis managed to stumble out of the shower to bleed into the sink before attempting to escape from her continued assault with the knife as the back-up weapon.

 

[StephanieHartPI]

thank you for your patience and hard work on this!

reBBM... this part, when viewed, is SO telling! she indicates the knife was in her left hand.. she's left-handed.. then she realizes she has to reverse it to keep up the ruse that it is a different, right-handed, female... when i first saw that i thought 'she's reliving her action'... i am absolutely chomping at the bit for JM to cross her.

YES YES! You see that clearly when he asks her to repeat that or something. She is left handed...so she does a couple about faces to match.

Um what a darn coincidence the female assailant you don't know is also left handed. Small world. So she wants to do a back up and start over, her mind is not working fast, then she does not answer.. probably looking down to see if her shoes have RT and LT on them to help her out with that difficult question

 

[Arishia]

I don't think that any professional out there can testify to what injury caused the blood down his back. The only person who knows for sure is Jodi because she washed Travis off before she left. Any testimony as to where that exact bit of blood came from is speculation no matter how many degrees one has earned.

It's all just speculation at this point where all that is left is a badly lit photograph.

The ME is a court expert in these matters. His opinion that there was not significant bleeding around the entrance wound, and that the resultant incapacitation would be inconsistent with the other trauma, should be given more weight. At least that's what I think. Also, I look at that picture and immediately think neck wound. Retired paramedic, for what that's worth. I've seen lots of head and neck trauma in my day. :cat:

 

[magpie]

If he sat in the shower it was because Jodi was holding a gun. I can see her telling him to sit so she could safely give him a short lecture which included
"'No man treats me this way!!!! No man!!!"

I've always felt that in the last picture, this picture with the closeup of his face, there is such a sad look in his eyes. I've never thought that it was meant to be a sexy gaze into the camera. It was pure fear and sadness. IMHO.

 

[StephanieHartPI]

BBM

Thanks for transcribing that, Stephanie.

When Jodi said that she would shoot Travis, and then added "continuously until he was dead", I recall the first time I heard that, I would expect that one would stop after just saying that she would shooting him.

One would expect one shot (especially to the head) would complete the deed instantly.

But by adding "continuously until he was dead" is an inadvertent admission that the gun jammed after the one shot and Travis managed to stumble out of the shower to bleed into the sink before attempting to escape from her continued assault with the knife as the back-up weapon.

BBM - VERY good point!!!

 

[StephanieHartPI]

I guess if I were here attorney the first thing I would say is

"sista, you talk too much"

How did she get this much blabbing out. Was this during her "act as my own attorney phase?"

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I've always felt that in the last picture, this picture with the closeup of his face, there is such a sad look in his eyes. I've never thought that it was meant to be a sexy gaze into the camera. It was pure fear and sadness. IMHO.

I agree with you ... Is there any evidence he knew she was coming before she arrived because I am thinking she snuck in and held him captive now.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

If I'd seen those pics and the genders were reversed that's what I'd be thinking so why not ... Just because the perp is female and the victim male?

 

[LambChop]

It has to be speculation because Dr Horn did not have any evidence to inspect besides that badly lit photograph.

If he stated it as fact, I do not believe that portion of his "evidence" because for me...it can only be speculation unless you can see it for yourself, which he did not.

ETA: Since some like to play semantics I thought i should clarify. Yes, Dr Horn's testimony is evidence no matter how he reached his conclusion. I choose to not believe this piece of his testimony because, literally...there is NO WAY for him to be certain if the blood came from his head, neck, chest, foot, whatever...without being able to see it for himself.

He's an ME and the only person who looked at all the evidence from the crime scene to come to the conclusions he did in his report. He was not challenged on this by defense. Since he is an expert I think it is highly likely he would know what he was talking about. If your nose bleeds it will run down your face, if your arteries in the side of your neck are severed to the point where Travis was almost decapitated I think we can trust the doctor on this one. Dr. Horn also stated there was no blood from the bullet wound which was another reason he determined the shot came after Travis' neck was severed. Dr. Horn described the neck wound as blood gushing out through the wound (which went clear across his neck) so gravity would find the closest path which would be down the side of his neck because he was on his back. Not saying some of the blood could have also been from him coughing up blood from the chest wound also but the majority of what we see was from his neck. What a mess she must have been. jmo

 

[StephanieHartPI]

She is so defensive and then almost a confrontational tone. She knows she was the assailant and I think, not sure, the Detective wants to dis the female assailant (maybe he already caught on the female is really Jodi) so he calls the female assailant aggressive which is really calling Jodi a name. And she shoots back very fast as if to say "who you calling aggressive? did you just call me a name??"

--------------------------------
(Detective: seems like from what you are telling me she was the aggressor? and he was the more passive)

Jodi:
I guess so. Ya I mean there was definitely aggression, as far as I mean I don't know what you define as aggression by, its like, I was, there was a sternness