Jodi Arias Trial discussion, #3

[LambChop]

I think she deleted ALL the photos from the day, including the naked pictures.



I don't have a problem hearing the "other side". But, like most websleuthers, I don't buy it and I'm not here to give it a fair chance.

See this site, primarily, is a crime fighting site. It's a site for those who support victims, survivors and their families - not defendants. It's about finding out what happened to the missing or murdered person and who committed the crime and it's about getting justice and getting the bad guys.

Well, we know jodi arias killed Travis Alexander. Almost all of us here have listened to her coldly lie about her involvement, calmly change her story and try to b.s. the world by sweetly singing Christmas carols. We have now almost all heard about Travis' injuries and how he died. We have heard from Travis' friends and family about what a snake this woman was, how scary and stalkerish. We have heard evidence that points clearly to premeditation. Zero evidence has been presented thus far showing arias was battered or abused. And believe me, I don't know how long you have followed crimes and trials, but if they had such evidence, it would have been leaked all over the place far in advance of trial.

So yeah, I know she's guilty. Just like I did with casey anthony and scott peterson and josh powell. I am not an impartial juror sitting there weighing the evidence.

But lets say I was. Let's say websleuths was not about advocacy but was instead about playing juror. Whether or not Travis Alexander pretended arias didn't exist all the while he was enjoying her sexually, is 100% irrelevant to whether or not arias killed him or whether or not it was self defense. The question posed in your post has nothing to do with a legal question regarding a defense claim. Instead, IMO, the only purpose it serves is to express the view or plant the idea that this victim kind of asked for what he got. He kind of deserved it a little. And I'm sorry, but I have a real darn problem with that. Maybe that's because I don't hate men, I don't know.

But to the point of your question, no. I do not think it is disgusting at all. I think, if he was lying about contact with her, it evidences shame about his poor judgment and conduct that went against the mores of his religion. It could evidence some hypocrisy. But disgusting? Not at all. My response I felt showed that clearly, by pointing out, by way of comparison, that on the scale of evil, there was barely a change in level and that the question, in light of why there is trial at all in this case, is baffling.

I certainly accept your point of view but I definitely don't have to agree with it.

And might I add that sometimes defendants convict themselves when they forget they have a right to remain silent. JA is guilty of "too much information" which is why many of us feel she planned this murder and carried it out with hardly a break in her stride. Sometimes a snake is just a snake.

This is not a complicated case. Why would we want to make it so? Oh, and good post by-the-way. jmo

 

[TorisMom003]

I missed opening statements but I look forward to seeing what they present because Jodi's actions are very atypical for an abuse survivor imo. Witnessing abuse is also kind of on the rare side of things - typically abusers try to conceal their behavior so they can further maintain control. Sometimes abuse will escalate and be visible to others though but that generally causes the abuser to just morph their behaviors.

I honestly just don't know of a single case of on-going long-distance domestic violence in which children weren't shared between the victim and abuser. :waitasec:

Typically in abuse cases where an abused person (not always a woman btw) has reached a point in their abusive relationship where they kill in self defense there are signs to others that abuse is in fact happening. For instance with OJ, several knew without Nicole telling them that OJ was abusive to her by seeing the bruises and witnessing the interaction between between the two in public. This is what I was referring to when I said someone that saw the abuse. Anyone that saw the two of them together would/should be able to pick up on something being wrong based on how they interacted together.

I agree with the long distance thing. No way in hello that someone who was abused, got out away from that abuse, would drive 1000 miles to go back to their abuser. It just does not happen, imo.

MOO

 

[HauntsForHope]

Something to think about.........

If someone believes that Travis played a part in his death because of the way he "used" Jodi when it came to sex without a true committed relationship, does that then mean that Jodi should also be killed in the same way she killed Travis since she herself was "using" Ryan (and who knows how many other guys) as an alibi and possibly sex as well without a true committed relationship?

The only thing he did that contributed to his death was trust the wrong person. Can't fault him for that.

 

[Mystymiss]

When I was a teenager my mother always told us that if a man can get the milk free why buy the cow!!! That message stood with me even untl my young age of 58.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes it is a trait of someone love-obsessed or insecure. When I was much younger (in my early 30s), I found myself in a similar break-up as Jodi's with Travis. It doesn't sound like you've been there. But I have...

I can identify 100% with thinking you've FINALLY found Mr. Right, only for him to break it off, leaving you completely bewildered. I can totally identify with needing to stop yourself from hurting someone -- either yourself or the guy...

Many years ago I had a man "promise me the world," then POOF! -- he dropped me like a hot potato. Years later, I realize that he did it because, like Jodi, I had snooped in his personal belongings. Yes, I was INSECURE in this relationship. I lacked confidence and went looking for evidence that he was cheating... And Eureka: I found it!

When I realized it was over, I was beyond devastated. But unlike Jodi: 1) I was raised in a Christian home, and 2) I had too much to lose career-wise to go and hurt him back.

I could have driven to his home and smacked the crap out of the guy. I was angry, fed up with trying to figure out love, and ticked because I felt tricked by a playboy.

But instead of driving to this guy's house to hurt him, I got in my car and literally cried for 500 miles back to my hometown -- to the one place I could feel love. It was the closest I've ever felt to having a mental breakdown... He broke my soul. I could have become violent, but I didn't.

Jodi possibly cried her miles and miles to and/or from Travis' home. But she lacked whatever that is that keeps most women from acting criminally.

My main point: Having your heart broken can drive you off the deep end and make you want to hurt someone. Love isn't a fragrant bed of roses for a lot of people. It can turn ugly.

Yes, I've been there. Right where you were. I didn't have another man in the pipeline that I immediately hopped ontop of. Use as an alabi. I didn't kill him either. Thought about it...even enjoyed imagining killing him. But ya know what....I'm not a psychopath and didn't, and neither did you! That's a HUGE difference.

 

[lonetraveler]

Are there any statistics of women who were sexually, verbally or physically abused and killed their abuser, but didn't call police?

Mary Winkler is one that came to mind. I'm sure there are many.

 

[HarvestMoon]

I'm wanting to know a little more about Arias running away from home: At what age did this happen, and why?

 

[popsicle]

She had to clean up somewhere......when she was finished slaughtering Travis.

no I agree with you... just saying I don't know how she did it unless she stood on him like you said

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm wanting to know a little more about Arias running away from home: At what age did this happen, and why?

I also want to know why she lived with her grandparents and why she dropped out of school.

 

[Boodles]

I know for me personally there is nothing, NOTHING, "fun" about a murder victim. While there may be some "fun" posts about how cute the ME is or a joke about something else it has nothing to do with what happened to the victim. It is a way to remain sane when having the harsh reality of a cold-blooded killer and their "handy work" in your face. Why do we follow these cases if it is hard to deal with? Because someone has to give a d@mn. Someone has to remember the victim, stand up for the victim, say that it is not right at all what happened to the victim. Someone has to witness the horror so that the victim is not forgotten. Have some already made up their minds about Jodi's guilt? You bet'cha! After all, Jodi herself (finally after numerous lies before) has admitted to her own guilt. The pictures really are worth a thousand words. There was ALOT of rage involved in this killing. ALOT. And when a defendant is fighting for their lives (death penalty) they of course are going to fight with any underhanded means they can think of. How many defendants have actually stood in court after being charged in a first degree murder case where the death penalty is an option and said, "Yes, I killed them in cold blood because I wanted to, because they didn't give me what I wanted, because I felt like killing them."? How many instead use some sort of excuse for their crime? How many of them blame the victim?

I am interested in knowing if Jodi has any proof of Travis being abusive to her. Does she have anyone that has witnessed any sort of abuse? During the opening statement of the defense did they say that they would be calling witnesses that saw the abuse? Or are they simply relying on the word of a liar who has every reason to lie since she is facing the death penalty?

MOO

BBM. We don't know whether she has any proof. That's the gazillion dollar question. The opening statement by the defense (which is not evidence) was general, and did not provide many specifics, so we have yet to know what will be presented and/or who will testify other than that a DV expert witness.

Maybe that means JA will testify, which is wrought with obvious issues.

Who knows what the defense will present? We have to wait.

I wonder if a LWOP deal was offered to the defendant previously and rejected by her.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Something to think about.........

If someone believes that Travis played a part in his death because of the way he "used" Jodi when it came to sex without a true committed relationship, does that then mean that Jodi should also be killed in the same way she killed Travis since she herself was "using" Ryan (and who knows how many other guys) as an alibi and possibly sex as well without a true committed relationship?

I have hated that the sex seems to have become such an issue in this case. These were two consenting adults. The religious aspect is entered in this case for no other purpose than to victimize the victim all over again. He was a Morman but he was also a healthy 30 year old man with human weaknesses. Big deal... that makes him just like a lot of other people who sin everyday but still believe in God.

I think she was the great manipulator. She thought if she could lure him into becoming addicted to her sex ploys that he would be controlled by her and stay with her but even he knew Jodi Arias was not what he really needed in a wife. All she was ........was easy peasy shoving 'it" in his face and coming through doggie doors to creep into his bed as he lay sleeping.

I dont blame Travis whatsoever for his own death. He did the right thing......even talking her into moving far away from him. They both knew the attraction was nothing more than a sexual attraction even though Jodi tried to pretend there was more there than there was. Jodi knew it and he did too ....both felt like sex toys. But in Jodi's obsessed (Glenn Close) mind she really thought she could use sex as a control tool to snare the man she wanted because Travis's future was bright, exciting, and promising and her life without Travis was mundane and average at best.

FGS! They just dated for 5 months and werent even engaged. He really had no committment to her whatsoever.

IMO

 

[LambChop]

Yes it is a trait of someone love-obsessed or insecure. When I was much younger (in my early 30s), I found myself in a similar break-up as Jodi's with Travis. It doesn't sound like you've been there. But I have...

I can identify 100% with thinking you've FINALLY found Mr. Right, only for him to break it off, leaving you completely bewildered. I can totally identify with needing to stop yourself from hurting someone -- either yourself or the guy...

Many years ago I had a man "promise me the world," then POOF! -- he dropped me like a hot potato. Years later, I realize that he did it because, like Jodi, I had snooped in his personal belongings. Yes, I was INSECURE in this relationship. I lacked confidence and went looking for evidence that he was cheating... And Eureka: I found it!

When I realized it was over, I was beyond devastated. But unlike Jodi: 1) I was raised in a Christian home, and 2) I had too much to lose career-wise to go and hurt him back.

I could have driven to his home and smacked the crap out of the guy. I was angry, fed up with trying to figure out love, and ticked because I felt tricked by a playboy.

But instead of driving to this guy's house to hurt him, I got in my car and literally cried for 500 miles back to my hometown -- to the one place I could feel love. It was the closest I've ever felt to having a mental breakdown... He broke my soul. I could have become violent, but I didn't.

Jodi possibly cried her miles and miles to and/or from Travis' home. But she lacked whatever that is that keeps most women from acting criminally.

My main point: Having your heart broken can drive you off the deep end and make you want to hurt someone. Love isn't a fragrant bed of roses for a lot of people. It can turn ugly.

At some time or another I think we all have had this happen where someone we love betrayed our trust. We did not act upon our hurt because we are normal, even though we probably thought about setting fire to a bag of dog poo and leaving it on his front porch when we know he was home....we did not do it. Thoughts are just that, thoughts. They go no further and we eventually move on. For JA she admits it was over long before she killed him and even was playing pattycakes with someone new.

Crawling through a doggie dog to gain access into a locked home is the sign of a sick person. She fits the bill for sure. jmo

 

[PrincessSezMe]

This pic gets me more then the autopsy photos, the fear in his eyes is haunting!

I'm not sure what I see in his eyes. Not sure it's fear exactly, but an "uneasiness", like he's just not comfortable with what's going on at the moment (like a lot of the photos of them together). From what I've seen I think he was uncomfortable with the whole relationship. Too bad he couldn't just walk away from her when they first met at that conference.

Ah the lure of the siren....it's as old as man's existence on this earth. Samson and Delilah comes to mind.

 

[Linda7NJ]

no I agree with you... just saying I don't know how she did it unless she stood on him like you said

And isn't that a sick image?

I just can't come up with an alternative as to how she removed all that blood from herself. We know she didn't use the sink or tub....in his room anyway. Wonder if there was another bathroom with a shower she could access? Second bathroom would have been easier to clean if she stripped down in the "murder bathroom" and rinsed the cloths she was wearing in the shower Travis was found in.

 

[Linda7NJ]

BBM. We don't know whether she has any proof. That's the gazillion dollar question. The opening statement by the defense (which is not evidence) was general, and did not provide many specifics, so we have yet to know what will be presented and/or who will testify other than that a DV expert witness.

Maybe that means JA will testify, which is wrought with obvious issues.

Who knows what the defense will present? We have to wait.

I wonder if a LWOP deal was offered to the defendant previously and rejected by her.

I would bet the DM expert is testifying so she doesn't have to.

I would bet they offered her LWOP and she turned it down. As "no jury will convict me, mark my words"

 

[TorisMom003]

I doubt that a LWOP deal was offered. Why would the State offer that when they clearly have a slam dunk case? Jodi and her lawyers are going to have a very difficult time getting anyone to believe this was a self defense case.

Can someone tell me what color hair MiMi has? I didn't get to see her testimony. I'm wondering if one of the reasons why Jodi dyed her hair on the way to see Travis is because she had seen a picture of MiMi and figured that she needed to help her chances of "getting her man" back away from MiMi.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I have hated that the sex seems to have become such an issue in this case. These were two consenting adults. The religious aspect is entered in this case for no other purpose than to victimize the victim all over again. He was a Morman but he was also a healthy 30 year old man with human weaknesses. Big deal... that makes him just like a lot of other people who sin everyday but still believe in God.

I think she was the great manipulator. She thought if she could lure him into becoming addicted to her sex ploys that he would be controlled by her and stay with her but even he knew Jodi Arias was not what he really needed in a wife. All she was ........was easy peasy shoving 'it" in his face and coming through doggie doors to creep into his bed as he lay sleeping.

I dont blame Travis whatsoever for his own death. He did the right thing......even talking her into moving far away from him. They both knew the attraction was nothing more than a sexual attraction even though Jodi tried to pretend there was more there than there was. Jodi knew it and he did too ....both felt like sex toys. But in Jodi's obsessed (Glenn Close) mind she really thought she could use sex as a control tool to snare the man she wanted because Travis's future was bright, exciting, and promising and her life without Travis was mundane and average at best.

FGS! They just dated for 5 months and werent even engaged. He really had no committment to her whatsoever.

IMO

Agreed!

How many Christians are virgins when they marry? My guess...a scare few.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM. We don't know whether she has any proof. That's the gazillion dollar question. The opening statement by the defense (which is not evidence) was general, and did not provide many specifics, so we have yet to know what will be presented and/or who will testify other than that a DV expert witness.

Maybe that means JA will testify, which is wrought with obvious issues.

Who knows what the defense will present? We have to wait.

I wonder if a LWOP deal was offered to the defendant previously and rejected by her.

All she is going to have is the psyche doctors.... hired guns, imo.

The author that was on IS the other day said she has investigated this case thoroughly and has talked with a large amount of people that knew Travis ..including women he had dated and she said she couldnt find ONE person who had anything bad to say about TA.

This was all made up after they caught her in her other lies.

This case is so heinous and cruel I highly doubt this county DA in this particular county would ever offer her a plea.

IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

I doubt that a LWOP deal was offered. Why would the State offer that when they clearly have a slam dunk case? Jodi and her lawyers are going to have a very difficult time getting anyone to believe this was a self defense case.

Can someone tell me what color hair MiMi has? I didn't get to see her testimony. I'm wondering if one of the reasons why Jodi dyed her hair on the way to see Travis is because she had seen a picture of MiMi and figured that she needed to help her chances of "getting her man" back away from MiMi.

Prosecuting a DP case is very expensive. IMO she'll likely get LWOP anyway.

 

[Boodles]

Prosecuting a DP case is very expensive. IMO she'll likely get LWOP anyway.

Exactly.