Jodi Arias Trial discussion, #3

[Sulamith]

But like Christianity there is a way to make up for it, right?

I'd still bet there are a Ton Of Mormons running around that aren't virgins. After all, human beings are sexual beings.

Yes, there are ways a person can make up for it but the Mormons also can excommunicate a person, so no making up for it. Excommunication can be terrible for a person who still wants to be a member of the Mormons and just does not shrug it off and join another church. Mormonism is complicated compared to other Christian churches. (shrug)

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, there are ways a person can make up for it but the Mormons also can excommunicate a person, so no making up for it. Excommunication can be terrible for a person who still wants to be a member of the Mormons and just does not shrug it off and join another church. Mormonism is complicated compared to other Christian churches. (shrug)

So...confessing for Travis would be financial suicide ? Didn't he tell someone he wasn't temple worthy because of her?

 

[gitana1]

Sounds like you've found background information about JA. I've sure wanted to understand her childhood. Is there a link to an article about her running away from home young?

I suspect that Jodi was sexually abused by someone as a child. Something happened to this girl. I heard someone on InSession say she dropped out of high school in the 11th grade. Her being extremely quiet in a crowd is not only creepy, it shows some kind of dysfunction. And her being so sexual -- needing a "dildo with a heartbeat," as Travis wrote -- screams that she has some sexual issue.

Last but not least, the new guy, Ryan, said she was sexually aggressive with him. That is toooooo odd!! Don't most women try to act soft and feminine when they're first with a guy?

For Jodi to have been in Ryan's presence for only a couple of hours and then be "manhandling" him sexually sends up a HUGE red flag. Somebody screwed with her as a child and completely screwed this girl up...

I have to wonder if she went psycho on Travis with that knife, as part of a blackout / flashback, as if finally getting even with a man who may have molested her or whatever.

In my experience and from what I have researched, people with personality disorders like narcissistic, borderline or anti-social personality disorder, often use sex as a means of control or manipulation - not because they actually need sex but because they have learned they can get things with it. (And yes, some of that starts with extreme sexual abuse).

The being quiet in a crowd just shows me that, as a psychopath, she does not know who to emulate, who to be, when she's in a group, which is her means of controlling everyone's reactions to her, in a one-on-one situation. So, she goes silent so she won't accidentally reveal herself and allow people to see the real, evil her. That's because psychopaths realize they aren't like others and in order to convince other people that they are normal, or to gain those people's confidence, they mimic the behavior and emotions of the people they are interacting with. That's hard to do in a group, since everyone is different. (Although lots of psychopaths would simply copy the most popular person in the crowd).

I would rather Jodi get LWOP than the DP. Travis's friends and family will be waiting a VERY long time for Arizona to put her to death.

I think there is so much about sex in this case because the Prosecution is painting Jodi as a femme fatale who used Travis's weakness (which was sex) to get what she wanted from him.

and when she did not get what she wanted this one last time with her latest sex ploy, she flew into a rage.

I believe they were using each other.

The one thing about the DP, though (which I am not a proponent of, actually), is that the accommodations for death penalty prisoners are usually much worse than for lifers. Psychopaths have little problems adapting to regular prison. But death penalty wings are more punitive.

 

[HarvestMoon]

Agree. Whether she was possibly molested doesn't matter in this trial. But as a society, we'd benefit from learning something like this.

Unfortunately, we're seeing sexual predators are everywhere, and can be just about anybody -- holy priests, revered football coaches, lovely high school teachers, you name it.

If Jodi is sick due to having been sexually abused as a child, this would be a teachable moment for all of us. Parents, in particular, need to see how screwed up their children can become if they let sneaky weirdos get a hold of them.

Thank you. I couldn't agree more.

 

[Linda7NJ]

In my experience and from what I have researched, people with personality disorders like narcissistic, borderline or anti-social personality disorder, often use sex as a means of control or manipulation - not because they actually need sex but because they have learned they can get things with it. (And yes, some of that starts with extreme sexual abuse).

The being quiet in a crowd just shows me that, as a psychopath, she does not know who to emulate, who to be, when she's in a group, which is her means of controlling everyone's reactions to her, in a one-on-one situation. So, she goes silent so she won't accidentally reveal herself and allow people to see the real, evil her. That's because psychopaths realize they aren't like others and in order to convince other people that they are normal, or to gain those people's confidence, they mimic the behavior and emotions of the people they are interacting with. That's hard to do in a group, since everyone is different. (Although lots of psychopaths would simply copy the most popular person in the crowd).



The one thing about the DP, though (which I am not a proponent of, actually), is that the accommodations for death penalty prisoners are usually much worse than for lifers. Psychopaths have little problems adapting to regular prison. But death penalty wings are more punitive.

She gave herself away to Travis friends.

 

[gitana1]

Ok, I keep hearing what posters think the jury will decide as to the DP, but I thought that the judge makes that decision after a second "trial" (held if defendent found guilty of 1st degree murder only) is held. Am I wrong? It is very possible that I am, just trying to clarify it for myself. I thought that the jury only made judgment in the guilt phase of the trial process.

From what I have read, in Arizona, 1st degree murder in this case would need premeditation. The premeditation would be ANY amount of time, long or short, that would allow for ANY amount of reflection before the commission of the crime.

Then there are 10 factors that would qualify a case for the DP, and only ONE is needed. IMO, the factor that they are using is that the crime was committed in "an especially heinous, cruel, or depraved manner."

So, if premeditation is determined, then 1st degree murder verdict from jury. If 1st degree murder verdict, then the aggravation and mitigation hearing with the judge only, and where victims impact testimony is allowed. If judge finds crime committed in an especially heinous, cruel, or depraved manner, then the DP is quite possible from the judge.

Please correct my errors, as my limited research might have been completely outdated or something. TIA.

The jury decides.

 

[belimom]

Whew... Got through all 47 pages. Now I can comment - sorry if some of this stuff is 'old' now. You guys move fast!

Agree with you and am familiar with the experience you had.

I just don't see that in Jodi.

Jodi IMO is an empty shell of a human being. She's incapable of love as normal people experience it. She has no fear, no remorse. She cool, calm and collected. Her affect is always a bit off when she can't mimic appropriate responses or she hasn't accumulated a response in her arsenal.

As a psychologist, I'll try to clarify as best I can. A main difference between narcissists and psychopaths is that the former can have meaningful relationships and empathy, while the latter is incapable. Sure, they may be in a relationship but it is not meaningful. They may fool the other person (they are good at that) but there really is no emotional attachment from their side. Nada. Not necessarily true for narcissists.

 

[LinasK]

Unfortunately, we're seeing sexual predators are everywhere, and can be just about anybody -- holy priests, revered football coaches, lovely high school teachers, you name it.

If Jodi is sick due to having been sexually abused as a child, this would be a teachable moment for all of us. Parents, in particular, need to see how screwed up their children can become if they let sneaky weirdos get a hold of them.

Yeah, but sometimes the parents don't "let the sneaky wierdos get a hold of them". In my case, it was an uncle, and my parents were clueless for years.
A better lesson is to pay attention to your children, and behavioral changes in them, and believe them if they tell you something happened to them. Also, get your child therapy if they need it, and hold them accountable for their behavior, do away with the ridiculous concept of "unconditional love"!!! That you would love them no matter how badly they act. My love for my daughter is conditional, if she murders someone, she loses it!!!

 

[Karmady]

I don't know, was that rage an accumulation of a hell of a lot built up anger?

Sure would like to know what those two twins in the back of the courtroom know about Jodi Arias.

Today??? Didn't notice twins. Hoping one of them is not me ::::

 

[Linda7NJ]

Whew... Got through all 47 pages. Now I can comment - sorry if some of this stuff is 'old' now. You guys move fast!






As a psychologist, I'll try to clarify as best I can. A main difference between narcissists and psychopaths is that the former can have meaningful relationships and empathy, while the latter is incapable. Sure, they may be in a relationship but it is not meaningful. They may fool the other person (they are good at that) but there really is no emotional attachment from their side. Nada. Not necessarily true for narcissists.

Thank you oh so much

 

[belimom]

I doubt that a LWOP deal was offered. Why would the State offer that when they clearly have a slam dunk case? Jodi and her lawyers are going to have a very difficult time getting anyone to believe this was a self defense case.

Can someone tell me what color hair MiMi has? I didn't get to see her testimony. I'm wondering if one of the reasons why Jodi dyed her hair on the way to see Travis is because she had seen a picture of MiMi and figured that she needed to help her chances of "getting her man" back away from MiMi.

Did she dye her hair BEFORE or AFTER seeing Travis? Would make sense either way. Before, so that if someone saw her there, they may not think it was her b/c of the different hair color. After, so she can *say* she did it before and therefore strands of hair found at the scene couldn't be hers: wrong color (even though DNA would answer that question - someone not that familiar with forensic testing may not realize that).

 

[gitana1]

She gave herself away to Travis friends.

She sure did! Her evil was obvious enough that his friends felt so uncomfortable that they forbid him from bringing her around their children or to their homes.

Oh, but wait! She was the poor, put upon, heartbroken and used victim, right? And he was the cruel, abuser - the sociopathic player! Didn't you know that Linda?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yeah, but sometimes the parents don't "let the sneaky wierdos get a hold of them". In my case, it was an uncle, and my parents were clueless for years.
A better lesson is to pay attention to your children, and behavioral changes in them, and believe them if they tell you something happened to them. Also, get your child therapy if they need it, and hold them accountable for their behavior, do away with the ridiculous concept of "unconditional love"!!! That you would love them no matter how badly they act. My love for my daughter is conditional, if she murders someone, she loses it!!!

I'd still love my child even if he murdered someone. I don't have a switch I can throw to ever turn that off.

 

[belimom]

~bbm

Do you know an LDS person personally. If you do, ask them how big of a deal pre-marital sex is.


eta: didn't read Sula's before I posted, so redundant. It's a HUGE big deal.

My aunt married a Mormon and I have many many cousins who are Mormon. They ones my age were mostly your typical Mormon, i.e., fairly straightlaced. But one cousin - not so sure. I think he and his now-wife (also a Mormon) may have had premarital sex. I know that one of their children (also a Mormon) got his girlfriend pregnant. And I'm sure it wasn't by 'divine intervention'.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Did she dye her hair BEFORE or AFTER seeing Travis? Would make sense either way. Before, so that if someone saw her there, they may not think it was her b/c of the different hair color. After, so she can *say* she did it before and therefore strands of hair found at the scene couldn't be hers: wrong color (even though DNA would answer that question - someone not that familiar with forensic testing may not realize that).

Between renting the car as a blonde and arriving at Travis's she dyed it.

 

[Isabelle]

I don't know, was that rage an accumulation of a hell of a lot built up anger?

Sure would like to know what those two twins in the back of the courtroom know about Jodi Arias.

Who are the twins? Is that her mother and aunt?

 

[GobBluth]

The jury decides.

Ok, then my references are COMPLETELY wrong. Can you point me in the direction of some better sources of this info. Thanks so much!

ETA: Ok, the US Supreme Court changed that in 2002, lol. Nevermind. Waste of freakin' time on outdated stupid internet research...might as well go back to my parents' 1937 Encyclopedia set that I had to use in grade school for my reports...angry mumble, mumble, mumble...sigh.

 

[LinasK]

Did she dye her hair BEFORE or AFTER seeing Travis? Would make sense either way. Before, so that if someone saw her there, they may not think it was her b/c of the different hair color. After, so she can *say* she did it before and therefore strands of hair found at the scene couldn't be hers: wrong color (even though DNA would answer that question - someone not that familiar with forensic testing may not realize that).

I have the impression from her photos, and knowing that she is Hispanic, that she is a natural born brunette, and had dyed it blonde in her relationship with Travis. I realize that's not the exact question you asked, but it's been bugging me. I think she's back to her natural color now.

 

[Linda7NJ]

My aunt married a Mormon and I have many many cousins who are Mormon. They ones my age were mostly your typical Mormon, i.e., fairly straightlaced. But one cousin - not so sure. I think he and his now-wife (also a Mormon) may have had premarital sex. I know that one of their children (also a Mormon) got his girlfriend pregnant. And I'm sure it wasn't by 'divine intervention'.

I'd like to hear about the other realm, the one in between being with god and the crappy outer circle.

 

[HarvestMoon]

Who are the twins? Is that her mother and aunt?

Yes..