Jodi Arias Trial Watchers Thread #1

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  • #1,121
Jodi and Casey do have so many traits in common. Narcissism being #1. And neither had the sense to "walk away" when defeated. They don't have that boundary built into their characters. Instead they both committed heinous, atrocious murders to WIN the battle. Then they both put on their best game faces and with calm, cool and coy...tried charming the world into believing they were the innocent victims. These type of people are quite dangerous and frightening. They are conning, cunning and conniving and I guarantee that every person here as met a few in their lifetimes. I personally think the DP suits both of them. One got off scott free, but I think Arias will get 25-life.
 
  • #1,122
Correct. I pointed that out. I am asking why no outcry for a murder that objectively is *even worse* in terms of brutality, gore, viciousness. That's the argument being used as to why Arias deserves the DP. The "brutality, evilness, and premeditation." So compare that to the Wright case in which the DP was not on the table as an option.

It's up to the District Attorney whether a case is tried as a death penalty case or not. I guess depending on which state it is, and who's in office, there are going to be inconsistencies from state to state, and case to case. I would think (and hope) they base their decision on the evidence they have to support their case, and not on the brutality of the crime. There is a mountain of evidence against this woman, so I can see how the DA made their decision in THIS case.

It's very possible that the jury will see this as a crime of passion, and she will not be convicted of first degree murder. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
 
  • #1,123
Someone needs to explain how Susan Wright, TX wife who stabbed her husband nearly 200 times after tying him to the bed spread eagle and pouring hot wax on him as a seduction technique, then semi-buried his body in a patio area of the house, and pretended he was on a trip for 4 days and claimed spousal abuse as her defense did not face the DP and is sentenced to 25 years to life, while Jodi Arias is facing the death penalty.

Is one seductress vixen more deserving of the DP than the other? Aren't 200 stab wounds worse than 27 stab wounds + a GSW? Is being tied up worse than not? Or how about Melanie Maguire of NJ who shot her husband to death then dismembered his body and put the pieces of him into 2 or 3 suitcases and dumped them in some body of water. She also did not face the DP. Why is no one crying foul?

I don't understand. Who says there was no outcry? Are you aware Wright was sentenced 8 years ago in 2004? Are we supposed to mention every legal injustice that ever occurred with similar circumstances in order to be able to have an opinion as to what possible punishment this crimes merits? I'm sorry but that is illogical.
I remember the Wright case well. I was appalled that she only got 20 years. I still am. She should never be free.

ETA: Various jurisdictions have different laws regarding capital punishment. I see people across the world screaming that a case should be eligible for the death penalty in states where it's not. We are not talking about capital punishment in general. We are talking specifically about this case and this crime and whether the defendant is eligible for the DP in az for the crime she cOmmitted.
 
  • #1,124
It's up to the District Attorney whether a case is tried as a death penalty case or not. I guess depending on which state it is, and who's in office, there are going to be inconsistencies from state to state, and case to case. I would think (and hope) they base their decision on the evidence they have to support their case, and not on the brutality of the crime. There is a mountain of evidence against this woman, so I can see how the DA made their decision in THIS case.

It's very possible that the jury will see this as a crime of passion, and she will not be convicted of first degree murder. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
BBM. The ol' 'crime of passion' thing has always really bugged me. What it really boils down to is...I can't have you so no one else will... Boom. Your dead. I just can't muster any sympathy, empathy or compassion for that. It is just a selfish act which ends someones life. Why do people even take that into consideration? Murder is murder. :notgood::notgood:
 
  • #1,125
Do we know anything of her parents?

Who is sitting on her side in the galley?

Are they photos of her brother on MySpace? He looks like a minor.


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Her sister A. cannot attend trial posted by CB. JA parents pictures on there and of her 91yo grandma also.


http://www.facebook.com/Justice4Travis
 
  • #1,126
I have only seen maybe one post that attempted to "scrub him clean and roll him in sugar". Other than that, none of us who believe he is an innocent victim (which is hardly close to "everyone", in fact, it appears we are the minority right now), are stating he is a choir boy or was perfect or didn't have faults.

But for me, it is quite clear that he was not the "player" and he was not the user in the "relationship". He didn't call her up. He didn't seek her out. He didn't lie to her to get in her pants. He didn't make false promises. Give me one shred of evidence that any of that happened. Where is the evidence? That kind of conduct would constitute the conduct of a user, in my book. But I have seen zero indication that any of that happened.

Instead, he told her he wasn't serious, he didn't hide that he was dating other people and he told her how he felt about her. In fact, while he did engage in sex with her despite his feelings about her, his statements indicate that he was the one who felt used and that he was angry about it: "I was nothing more than a dildo with a heartbeat for you."

No, instead of pursuing her, lying to her, making false promises to score, etc., he made the mistake of not saying no when she haunted him, came over unannounced or uninvited, took her clothes off and got into his bed. It makes him guilty of poor judgment and going against the tenets of his faith. But that's it, as far as I'm concerned.

And yet I keep seeing these posts practically blaming him for what happened: He was equally at fault in the "relationship". He was playing a dangerous game with a fragile minded person. He who plays with fire is going to get burned. His actions resulted in an "unpleasant crime" - not horrific, not gruesome, just "unpleasant" as if that is the expected result when two creeps get together and use one another. He was a sociopath. Etc.

This baffles me and I find it horrid. I feel that many people are unaware of what a psychopath is like and how they are able to ensnare and captivate their victims.

I am also dead certain that if the roles were reversed, no one would be accusing her of being a user or player and no one would be calling her a sociopath or equally guilty in the "relationship." I firmly believe that if the roles were reversed, almost everyone would be calling her the innocent victim of a hideously frightening psychopathic monster. The only difference in the two scenarios is gender and it is quite clear to me that societal attitudes about gender and crime are to blame: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742.html

I just don't think that's right. But, we see it all the time. A man molests his students and he goes to prison. A women does so and nothing happens to her. A man stalks a woman to death, viciously murdering her at the end of his reign of terror and he is given the death penalty. A woman does so and people bend over backwards to find some kind of justification, some kind of fault on the part of the victim. The murderess is not given the death penalty. People blame the victim and assert that the crime is not horrible enough to be worthy of capital punishment.

I just don't think that's right. (And I'm not debating capital punishment which I am actually against, really). It's just not right to give women the benefit of the doubt by virtue of the fact of their sex alone and it is not right toy imbue men with depravity and evil by virtue of the fact of their sex alone. And frankly, that's what I think is going on here to a large degree, at least subconsciously. I don't like it.

Men can be victims too. They can be imperfect and still be the innocent victims of sinister and twisted women. They can be faultless except in their judgment and be the victim of a horrific, gruesome, crime. It happens.

I think it happened here, to Travis, who was not a choir boy, who was not perfect but who did not, due to his poor conduct in sleeping with a mad women who flung herself at him, even though he wanted nothing more from her, bring his own murder on himself. He did not cause what happened to him to happen. He did not deserve to die. He is a victim. Period. The victim of a predatory and frightening monster who is very, very cunning and very, very good at fooling people into thinking it's not all her fault, that she was at least somewhat compelled to do the evil things she did because her victims were evil themselves. She's a con and a snake and IMO, her trickery and deceit is still working to some degree, even right here at websleuths.

And that scares me, because if there are sleuthers who have the subconscious sense that Travis kind of asked for it, I can only imagine what a jury might do.

Don't misunderstand me. He did not deserve to die no matter
what he did but I think that it has become easier for people to
paint the victim as completely innocent of anything. It all has to be in black and white. Innocent church boy killed by slutty psychopath.

My point is that even if he raped her it would not be justification
for his murder, so why are people so eager to imply that he was
not responsible at all for the sexual relationship.

Speaking of the double standards, lets reverse the roles as you mentioned,
if a young woman was being stalked, had someone slashing her tires and sneaking into her home and that woman was having sex with this stalker, how would you respond? Why is it different ? because he's a man so he's not supposed to have control of his penis.

He even told a friend that "it's hard to say no to a woman that sneaks into your house, crawls in your bed and tries to, you know, seduce you." If a woman said that, how would you feel about it? Now what if that woman never called the cops or filed a police report but just continued a sexual relationship with him?

He did not have this coming. He did not deserve his murder.
However, I am more inclined to believe that he had
an image to protect, possibly even from himself. Actions speak louder than
words. He said he didn't want her and that she was stalking him and so on but did that stop him from having sex with her? He probably got off
on thinking she was a 🤬🤬🤬🤬 and he could just use her. Isn't that what 🤬🤬🤬🤬 teaches men? By admitting that he wasn't a squeaky clean choir boy it doesn't make his murder ok. It just doesn't whitewash him as if he was worthy of death if he did make some mistakes.

Many women are ignorant to the fact that sex doesn't equal love.
He may not have ever said to her that he loved her or wanted to be with her
but having sex with her could have been read that way by many women.

Jodi clearly killed him and she is obviously a liar but she did not force him to
have sex. He was an adult with fully functional right and left hands which I am sure is frowned on but it's not as bad as real sex.
 
  • #1,127
Hey guys...for the ones that missed the feeds i found on youtube day 2 of the trial [video=youtube;qdiZADvLaEY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdiZADvLaEY[/video]
 
  • #1,128
Is it just me, or did anyone else think that Jodi's body language changed when her Cancun rival Mimi was on the stand? It was subtle, but she seemed to sit straighter, paid complete attention and kept direct eye contact with her. She also seemed to have a gleam in her eyes of power or superiority she was trying to convey. Like I said, it was subtle but very creepy. I definitely saw some new body language going on there. With the rest on the stand, she would write, look down, talk with her atty. But with Mimi she was attention full on.
 
  • #1,129
BBM. The ol' 'crime of passion' thing has always really bugged me. What it really boils down to is...I can't have you so no one else will... Boom. Your dead. I just can't muster any sympathy, empathy or compassion for that. It is just a selfish act which ends someones life. Why do people even take that into consideration? Murder is murder. :notgood::notgood:

I so agree with you! I am praying she gets LWOP AT THE VERY LEAST. What I think the jury will struggle with is the premeditation. What does anyone know about the evidence of premeditation? There's the stolen gun, is there anything else?
 
  • #1,130
I so agree with you! I am praying she gets LWOP AT THE VERY LEAST. What I think the jury will struggle with is the premeditation. What does anyone know about the evidence of premeditation? There's the stolen gun, is there anything else?
For sure. It was soooo obviously premeditated.
 
  • #1,131
For sure. It was soooo obviously premeditated.

Lay it out for me Pip :rocker:

I'm not a strong proponent of the death penalty...I'm a Canuck eh ;) but I am curious whether or not the prosecution has the evidence to make that a possibility.
 
  • #1,132
sorry me again ...day 2 part 2
[video=youtube;Cpcc37rmk4A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpcc37rmk4A[/video]
 
  • #1,133
Lay it out for me Pip :rocker:

I'm not a strong proponent of the death penalty...I'm a Canuck eh ;) but I am curious whether or not the prosecution has the evidence to make that a possibility.
Premeditated..Catalyst: Cancun trip in the next 5-6 days, 25 Caliber gun stolen and reported from her grandparents, rents a car many cities away from home, drives to Travis' house 1000 miles away, denies being there, GSW to face, 25 caliber casing found on floor. Admits to killing him. What else do you need to suggest the killing was premeditated? Why bring a gun?
 
  • #1,134
I think it happened here, to Travis, who was not a choir boy, who was not perfect but who did not, due to his poor conduct in sleeping with a mad women who flung herself at him, even though he wanted nothing more from her, bring his own murder on himself. He did not cause what happened to him to happen. He did not deserve to die. He is a victim. Period. The victim of a predatory and frightening monster who is very, very cunning and very, very good at fooling people into thinking it's not all her fault, that she was at least somewhat compelled to do the evil things she did because her victims were evil themselves. She's a con and a snake and IMO, her trickery and deceit is still working to some degree, even right here at websleuths.

And that scares me, because if there are sleuthers who have the subconscious sense that Travis kind of asked for it, I can only imagine what a jury might do.

I don't think you need to worry about what the jury will do. I think pretty much everyone who's commented about Travis's behaviour or personality has said it doesn't impact their POV on Jodi's guilt. And, speaking only for myself, as I mentioned above, my impression of him is based on many things aside from his relationship with Jodi. I just find their relationship consistent with other aspects of his background.
 
  • #1,135
I don't think you need to worry about what the jury will do. I think pretty much everyone who's commented about Travis's behaviour or personality has said it doesn't impact their POV on Jodi's guilt. And, speaking only for myself, as I mentioned above, my impression of him is based on many things aside from his relationship with Jodi. I just find their relationship consistent with other aspects of his background.

BBM

Are you referring to the fact that Travis came from a dysfunctional family? His grandparents rescued him and his siblings from abusive parents and gave them a strong religious up-bringing which gave them very high moral standards.

That doesn't mean that Travis was an abuser himself. Was there conflict between his "two childhoods"? I'm sure there was. The after-effects of abuse do not just disappear. Some individuals rise above the abuse and go on to become wonderful people. Travis tried very hard to meet the moral standards his grandparents gave him, and it shows in his writings.

He was in no way prepared for a sociopath like Jodi. There was a "spark" between them and he explored the possibilities. In doing so, he broke the moral code his grandparents ingrained in him.

In the opening statement, her attorney, Ms. Wilmott mentioned Jodi's previous boyfriend. She said that they had moved in together in a house they had jointly purchased. When their finances went sour, she broke it off, moved out, and moved on. Next thing you know, she meets Travis. He was young, good-looking, and apparently prosperous. She latched onto him and never let go, even when he told her there was no future in the relationship.

As with many borderlines, Jodi did what she could to fit in with Travis' friends. She rapidly converted to Mormonism, but couldn't fabricate the behavior and dress expected of a good Mormon woman. She stood out like a sore thumb. Travis was in emotional turmoil and told Ms. Hall, the first witness that he wasn't "temple worthy". That's a huge admission on his part.

Just remember when CA dated Jesse. She became religious, she tried to fit in to his family. She rooted for his teams. She did the same with Tony, becoming a shot girl supervisor and lived the cool life. Borderlines are chameleons, they change to fit with whoever their latest target is.
 
  • #1,136
BBM

Are you referring to the fact that Travis came from a dysfunctional family? His grandparents rescued him and his siblings from abusive parents and gave them a strong religious up-bringing which gave them very high moral standards.

That doesn't mean that Travis was an abuser himself. Was there conflict between his "two childhoods"? I'm sure there were. The after-effects of abuse do not just disappear. Some individuals rise above the abuse and go on to become wonderful people. Travis tried very hard to meet the moral standards his grandparents gave him, and it shows in his writings.

He was in no way prepared for a sociopath like Jodi. There was a "spark" between them and he explored the possibilities. In doing so, he broke the moral code his grandparents ingrained in him.

In the opening statement, her attorney, Ms. Wilmott mentioned Jodi's previous boyfriend. She said that they had moved in together in a house they had jointly purchased. When their finances went sour, she broke it off, moved out, and moved on. Next thing you know, she meets Travis. He was young, good-looking, and apparently prosperous. She latched onto him and never let go, even when he told her there was no future in the relationship.

As with many borderlines, Jodi did what she could to fit in with Travis' friends. She rapidly converted to Mormonism, but couldn't fabricate the behavior and dress expected of a good Mormon woman. She stood out like a sore thumb. Travis was in emotional turmoil and told Ms. Hall, the first witness that he wasn't "temple worthy". That's a huge admission on his part.

Just remember when CA dated Jesse. She became religious, she tried to fit in to his family. She rooted for his teams. She did the same with Tony, becoming a shot girl supervisor and lived the cool life. Borderlines are chameleons, they change to fit with whoever their latest target is.

His family background is part of it, as is his occupation as a very successful acheiver in what I believe is a MLM scam -- a pyramid scheme, in other words. I have no doubt that Jodi has serious mental problems. All I need to know that is to know what she did. Her issues are unrelated to my sense of Travis. The only way the two things are related is in how their interactions with each other operated, imo, as a match to gasoline. And I don't say that to excuse her actions even the tiniest little bit. It's just an observation.
 
  • #1,137
Correct. I pointed that out. I am asking why no outcry for a murder that objectively is *even worse* in terms of brutality, gore, viciousness. That's the argument being used as to why Arias deserves the DP. The "brutality, evilness, and premeditation." So compare that to the Wright case in which the DP was not on the table as an option.

I think the death penalty lessens her chance of conviction IMO.


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  • #1,138
I think the death penalty lessens her chance of conviction IMO.

How do you figure that?

She'll be convicted for sure because there is no way a jury will see her actions as self-defense and it would have to be self-defense for her to receive a "not guilty" verdict. The defense team says she killed T.A. so it can't be someone else who did it. Outside of acquittal based on self-defense, she will be convicted.

Whether Arias will be convicted of first degree murder or second degree murder is the big question. Either way, she'll be in prison for a minimum of 30 years. With first degree murder she'll be in prison for life. Same if a jury gives her the DP (which I predict they won't), because executions are becoming much less frequent. In the end she'll die of natural causes in prison with a first degree conviction.

For that reason I don't know why there is such concern about Arias getting off. This case is nothing like Casey Anthony. This killing is not a "who done it" and it's not been proposed as "an accident and then someone panicked." And though the defense will try to show her actions as "self-defense," even they know it is a near zero chance. No, this case is a "which degree of murder will she be convicted of and then if it's first degree, will the jury sentence her to death or life."

As far as murder trials go, this one is pretty anticlimatic because she will be convicted of something.
 
  • #1,139
How do you figure that?

She'll be convicted for sure because there is no way a jury will see her actions as self-defense and it would have to be self-defense for her to receive a "not guilty" verdict. The defense team says she killed T.A. so it can't be someone else who did it. Outside of acquittal based on self-defense, she will be convicted.

Whether Arias will be convicted of first degree murder or second degree murder is the big question. Either way, she'll be in prison for a minimum of 30 years. With first degree murder she'll be in prison for life. Same if a jury gives her the DP (which I predict they won't), because executions are becoming much less frequent. In the end she'll die of natural causes in prison with a first degree conviction.

For that reason I don't know why there is such concern about Arias getting off. This case is nothing like Casey Anthony. This killing is not a "who done it" and it's not been proposed as "an accident and then someone panicked." And though the defense will try to show her actions as "self-defense," even they know it is a near zero chance. No, this case is a "which degree of murder will she be convicted of and then if it's first degree, will the jury sentence her to death or life."

As far as murder trials go, this one is pretty anticlimatic because she will be convicted of something.

Because jurors are notoriously stupid!

Don't be surprised if the defense muddys the water so much they end up hung.




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  • #1,140
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