John did not sexually abuse JonBenet

[UKGuy]

John may not have had it in him and the intent may not have been there, but if he is doing it, then he most certainly knows it is wrong because it was hidden and his reaction to this kind of thing today shows everyone how harmful he knows this is and how horrible.

By the way, if I may, abuse is not defined as intent to harm - abuse is hurting someone to satiate ones owns needs without thought or care to the person who is being harmed. That is my take on abuse. As an example a parent (a mother) can be abusive towards a child in that she is being too protective and isolating the child but thinking it is for the child's best interest but in actuality for her own comfort - with no intent to hurt but the child is being abused all the same because the child is not learning to socialilze and this can be very harmful but without intent. It is a form of abuse in a way..

Sexual abuse whether intended to harm OR NOT, is considered the lowest forms of assault in our society and in most societies. There is a reason for that. So John, if he is doing it, is well aware of the repercussions of his actions and is thoughtless - again if it is true.

Solace,

Hello there.

If you consider that JonBenet was presenting the classic symptoms of sexual abuse, and if John was the person to blame then why should Patsy indulge herself in such a frenzy of staging, assisting in the coverup of her own daughter's death, where is the percentage in that ?

 

[LinasK]

Solace,

Hello there.

If you consider that JonBenet was presenting the classic symptoms of sexual abuse, and if John was the person to blame then why should Patsy indulge herself in such a frenzy of staging, assisting in the coverup of her own daughter's death, where is the percentage in that ?

Sorry, I'm not Solace, but because of the negative PR, she had to cover up for him. She stands by her man, the repercussions would've been to great otherwise. They present a united front. It's classic- mother choses husband over daughter.

 

[michelle]

michelle,
i was trying to make a point. really , i don't think oj is innocent. don't worry.LOL
ellen

I was scared for a minute there.

 

[twinkiesmom]

<<If you consider that JonBenet was presenting the classic symptoms of sexual abuse, and if John was the person to blame then why should Patsy indulge herself in such a frenzy of staging, assisting in the coverup of her own daughter's death, where is the percentage in that ?>>

Some theories:
Patsy believed she was not going to live to see Burke grow up and wanted to keep the family intact.
Reputation, reputation, reputation.
If Patsy dealt the head blow...(one of my theories is she swung with her eyes closed and hit JBR instead of the molester)

 

[Solace]

Solace,

Hello there.

If you consider that JonBenet was presenting the classic symptoms of sexual abuse, and if John was the person to blame then why should Patsy indulge herself in such a frenzy of staging, assisting in the coverup of her own daughter's death, where is the percentage in that ?

Hi UKGuy,

Patsy is very much concerned with appearances - it is her entire life. I do not believe that she would allow this to get out and be demeaned by it. She is a former beauty queen, she is very much involved in the community, her house is "open" over Christmas for viewing - if anyone would cover this up, it would be Patsy. The percentages are extremely high that she would cover this.

 

[Solace]

Solace, that was exactly my point, well-put!
P.S. This is the same uncle who would rub up against me when I was 4 or 5 under the guise of getting my coat- a supposed "loving" act.

Hi Linask,

I would love to get ahold of your uncle, just for a few minutes.

I was thinking about all those so called innocents "Scott Peterson, Jeff MacDonald and last but not least John and Patsy". They all look so All American and wonderful and the fact is they are not and they are often judged by their appearance. I was thinking about the JB case last night and how could this happen. It happened - and they are involved. No one else was there and after 10 years of trying to find the intruder, the Ramseys offer nothing, nada, zilch. They implicate their best friends, their house keeper and anyone else they can think of. They lie for no reason that I can think of. John tries to leave within an hour of discovering the body. They remove their son from the house - because they know they are going to be finding JB and bring her up, and I don't think they want him to see that. And they lawyer up within hours of leaving the house. They remove trunkfuls of items from the house and the police let them. Patsy fails at least one poly. If one thinks about this too long, it could have an adverse effect on one's stomach.

I am inclined to believe it was an accident on Patsy's part. I guess if they looked like murderers we would have no trouble believing they did it.

 

[rashomon]

Sorry, I'm not Solace, but because of the negative PR, she had to cover up for him. She stands by her man, the repercussions would've been to great otherwise. They present a united front. It's classic- mother choses husband over daughter.

LinasK, so sorry to hear about what you had to go through.
Do you think it possible that Patsy when catching John molesting JB, directed her anger at JonBenet instead, and inflicted the head bash on her? A mother who chose the husband over the daughter at that moment? She used to dress JB up as an adult, and maybe in her distorted thinking she reacted to her as if she would have reacted to an adult female, in blind jealousy?

 

[sissi]

She was soiling? Where did this originate? The story of one night with diarrhea, where LHP put her hands in a circle to describe the spot and Thomas decided it was the size of a grapefruit? No matter that there was no volume.
The "blatted" print on the ransom note was Patsy's?? NO!
The hymen was acutely damaged, while the experts can disagree concerning the "meaning" of chronic inflammation, no one has disagreed that the hymen was damaged at the time of death. There is no proof, and no mention before Wecht's book , that she was molested prior to the night of her death. Wecht suggested the inflammation could indicate a molestation happening within 72 hours of her death. Other experts discount this "theory". IMO I leave the suggestion of prior molestation open, only because it would indicate a motive in silencing the child. This crime, seems, as more information is "digested" to have been planned .

 

[Solace]

She was soiling? Where did this originate? The story of one night with diarrhea, where LHP put her hands in a circle to describe the spot and Thomas decided it was the size of a grapefruit? No matter that there was no volume.
The "blatted" print on the ransom note was Patsy's?? NO!
The hymen was acutely damaged, while the experts can disagree concerning the "meaning" of chronic inflammation, no one has disagreed that the hymen was damaged at the time of death. There is no proof, and no mention before Wecht's book , that she was molested prior to the night of her death. Wecht suggested the inflammation could indicate a molestation happening within 72 hours of her death. Other experts discount this "theory". IMO I leave the suggestion of prior molestation open, only because it would indicate a motive in silencing the child. This crime, seems, as more information is "digested" to have been planned .

Sissi,

Besides Steve Thomas (who cites a number of experts who agree there was sexual abuse (ongoing), there is also Hodges who cites it as well.

Hodges (your choice to believe or disbelieve) says there was ongong bedwetting which had increased just prior to her death and in the last few months preceding her death JB had started to "soil" her sheets. This is not a one time thing.

 

[aussiesheila]

Aussiessheila:

Yours is one way of looking at the abuse. Another is the following, she was a chronic bed wetter and in the last few months of her life had become a bed "soiler"; this is rare and something is very very wrong. Her hyman was broken and there was chronic and acute abuse (which is to say the abuse had happened the night of the murder and two or three days prior). Because JB cried for her father does not mean she was not abused; she doesn't quite know what is happening to her. I am sure her father, if he were the one doing it, was very good to her. All little girls love their fathers. This is the beginning stages of abuse. Also, Patsy tells the story of JB asking her mother who she loves the best and Patsy says "you". JB says to her "you are not supposed to love anyone more than Jesus. This could be a child repeating what she heard in church or it could be a child who is upset about the attention being given her.

Either way, she is wetting herself daily and at night she is now soiling the bed, classic symptons of child abuse.

hey, it is what it is.

I'm not disagreeing she was being abused. I am sure she was and had been for half her life. She had all the symptoms. I just don't believe it was John. I think it was her maternal grandfather and her father's so-called best friend who both had plenty of opportunites.

 

[Solace]

I'm not disagreeing she was being abused. I am sure she was and had been for half her life. She had all the symptoms. I just don't believe it was John. I think it was her maternal grandfather and her father's so-called best friend who both had plenty of opportunites.

Never thought about the grandfather, but I would not be surprised after what I have read about him.

 

[sissi]

Sissi,

Besides Steve Thomas (who cites a number of experts who agree there was sexual abuse (ongoing), there is also Hodges who cites it as well.

Hodges (your choice to believe or disbelieve) says there was ongong bedwetting which had increased just prior to her death and in the last few months preceding her death JB had started to "soil" her sheets. This is not a one time thing.

When "one" reads Steve's deposition , the line where he admits to being a liar is important. He calls his lies "factual errors".

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I think it was her maternal grandfather and her father's so-called best friend who both had plenty of opportunites.

I suspect the grandfather as well, but not FW, and really aussiesheila, I'd love to hear why you suspect FW so much. What is it about him that makes you think he was molesting JonBenet? Opportunity? JB was around him a lot because his daughter was her best friend. Was he part of the ring of pedophiles? You do know he and his family were cleared, don't you?

 

[UKGuy]

Hi UKGuy,

Patsy is very much concerned with appearances - it is her entire life. I do not believe that she would allow this to get out and be demeaned by it. She is a former beauty queen, she is very much involved in the community, her house is "open" over Christmas for viewing - if anyone would cover this up, it would be Patsy. The percentages are extremely high that she would cover this.

Solace,

Patsy's personal vanity is an aspect to this case, but surely not a motive to engage in a catalog of staging?

she would allow this to get out and be demeaned by it
She allowed JonBenet's violated corpse to be discovered within the confines of her own house, deep in the basement.

Just what kind of appearance do you think that portrayed, has she been demeaned by it?

There is more to JonBenet's death than that of an emotional outburst leading to an accident!

.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

When "one" reads Steve's deposition , the line where he admits to being a liar is important. He calls his lies "factual errors".

Any factual errors Thomas makes are small compared to the outright lies the Ramseys are telling, and good for him for admitting that he may have made some errors. At least Thomas doesn't have more than one story for the events of Christmas night as well as the next morning, and he doesn't suffer from convenient amnesia. He has nothing to hide - not true for the Rs.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Sissi,

Besides Steve Thomas (who cites a number of experts who agree there was sexual abuse (ongoing), there is also Hodges who cites it as well.

Hodges (your choice to believe or disbelieve) says there was ongong bedwetting which had increased just prior to her death and in the last few months preceding her death JB had started to "soil" her sheets. This is not a one time thing.

Housekeeper LHP said that JonBenet had trouble with bedwetting/soiling when she first started working for the Rs, then it cleared up for six months, and then resurfaced about a month prior to JonBenet's death. Not a one time thing, and an indication of something serious going on in JB's life.

 

[Solace]

When "one" reads Steve's deposition , the line where he admits to being a liar is important. He calls his lies "factual errors".

Please expound on that. Who admits to being a liar and where can I find it; it is interesting. Thanks.

 

[Solace]

Solace,

Patsy's personal vanity is an aspect to this case, but surely not a motive to engage in a catalog of staging?

she would allow this to get out and be demeaned by it
She allowed JonBenet's violated corpse to be discovered within the confines of her own house, deep in the basement.

Just what kind of appearance do you think that portrayed, has she been demeaned by it?

There is more to JonBenet's death than that of an emotional outburst leading to an accident!

.

UK,

Yes she is allowing the body to be found there, BUT, she is saying an intruder did it and therefore she had no control over it. You seem to be assuming that she is taking responsibility for the murder. She clearly is not. This situation cannot get any worse for her. She is strong as steel this woman and I believe she is capable of staging this scene. I am 99 3/4% sure that she wrote the note. I can't even get started on how much proof there is leaning to Patsy being the author. Patsy admits whoever wrote the note, killed JB. Interesting that she would admit to that on live televison - I know it proves nothing, the admitting I mean.

As far as there being more to her death, I could not agree more. She had a number of things going on with her that night, she had been through an exhausting day, she was recovering from cancer, she was turning 40, she was getting ready for a trip the next day that she admits she did not want to take. It is hard to believe that someone could kill another person, especially their child, but it happens and no reason in the world seems good enough. John Douglas who profiled their case and others calls these exact thing in his book "stressers'.(I know John Douglas was on their side - but he was also paid by them) I am sure she was taking tranquilizers also. She was probably addicted to them. She had been on them for her cancer treatment. One doesn't just stop and also John admits she is taking them. Tranquilizers leave a very nasty streak in people.

What else are they going to do with the body? One of them has bashed in their daughter's head. Someone is abusing her sexually, most likely. Maybe even that night and maybe not. But they are left with a child who has a bashed in head and their whole entire world is about to explode. The staging is incredible to be able to do it. A reporter asked Patty "you must be going crazy" She replied "I am not going crazy for anyone'. And I believe her.

 

[LinasK]

Solace and Rashomon, Thank-you for your kind thoughts. My uncle died several months ago. At least my mother didn't insist I go to his funeral. I would've liked to have tap danced on his grave! I am over the worst of it, although the molestation was only one time, the memories still remain and will hit me from time to time. :blowkiss:

 

[aussiesheila]

Never thought about the grandfather, but I would not be surprised after what I have read about him.

Yes the grandfather, and I think he had begun on Patsy some 30 years earlier.

And what I forgot to put in my post was that I think it was when John was away that the abuse would take place because the abusers would have felt safer at these times. All the more reason for JonBenet to cry about her father being away so often which was where this thread began. Not only did she miss his loving attention when he was away but she got abused as well by opportunistic pedophiles IMO.