John did not sexually abuse JonBenet

[Solace]

This poster at Forums for Justice has confirmed that Cyril Wecht agrees with my theory!:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

Linask,

I was thinking about the sex game theory presented by Dr. Wecht. The reason I disagree with this theory is if John were abusing JB in a sex game, he is not going to want to leave marks,etc. He is going to want to continue this game all to his own pleasure. Another thing that I think is very important. The garrote was wound around her neck with losts of hair being pulled from her head. This hair pulling in itself would have been very painful. Why would he take the chance of her screaming out in pain if he wants to continue this game. I don't believe he would have.

The only thing that bothers me about the scenario is why is there not more blood in JB's brain - this is consistent with Wecht's theory (only that the strangulation came first- So I am bothered by that. When I read that in Wecht's book I said "oh here we go" but then I read the autopsy report and it is consistent with his theory.

BUT, the autopsy reports also says "extensive hemorraghing (sp?)". So I am confused. Can you enlighten me on the bleeding in the brain and let me know if you can clear this up for me on whether there is more bleeding than Wecht presents. Thanks very much. Solace )

 

[cami]

Do these descriptions of JonBenet's behaviour made by people outside of the family sound as though JonBenet was being sexually abused by her father?


Barbara Kostanick the mother of one of JonBenet's friends is quoted in PMPT as saying:

"JonBenet seemed resentful that her father traveled so much. Not really angry, just sad. She really liked him a lot."


Also in PMPT there is an account by Brian Scott the gardener of a conversation he had with JonBenet when he was in the garden raking up the leaves while JonBenet was with him:

“Last year my Dad and I did that.”
And then she said quietly; “I really miss him. I wish he was around more.”
“Where does he go?”
“I don't know. But sometimes he goes away for a long time.”
“You really miss him?”
“Yeah, I really miss him a lot.”

Then she started to cry, tears rolling down her cheeks.


IMO if John had been sexually molesting JonBenet the times he was away would have been the only times she felt safe and she would be wishing he would stay a lot more.

You don't know that. John could have been molesting her after she made these comments. No one but John knows. I prefer to believe the trained doctors who believed she was molested.

 

[Solace]

You don't know that. John could have been molesting her after she made these comments. No one but John knows. I prefer to believe the trained doctors who believed she was molested.

Hi Cami,

There is a huge possibility that John was molesting JB. I just don't feel that he played this violent sex game with her. But, there are times that I am not sure that something was going on sexually. As I write this, I am saying to myself, of course there was. The child was constantly wetting her bed and had horrible vaginitis. It had to be incredibly painful and she must have wanted it to stop - she had to want to feel better. So everything points to sexual abuse.

It is possible that Patsy could have stopped this because if JB were able to learn how to dance the way she did and perform, she certainly could have been taught to stop wetting the bed.

That is why I am inclined to believe it is true. Also in answer to the previous poster who says JB would not have cried so much if he were molesting her. maybe JB was not quite sure of what was going on and is absolutely in love with him, as little girls are.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Hi Cami,

There is a huge possibility that John was molesting JB. I just don't feel that he played this violent sex game with her. But, there are times that I am not sure that something was going on sexually. As I write this, I am saying to myself, of course there was. The child was constantly wetting her bed and had horrible vaginitis. It had to be incredibly painful and she must have wanted it to stop - she had to want to feel better. So everything points to sexual abuse.

It is possible that Patsy could have stopped this because if JB were able to learn how to dance the way she did and perform, she certainly could have been taught to stop wetting the bed.

That is why I am inclined to believe it is true. Also in answer to the previous poster who says JB would not have cried so much if he were molesting her. maybe JB was not quite sure of what was going on and is absolutely in love with him, as little girls are.

Ever think that it was Patsy that was molesting her when daddy was away?

 

[Solace]

Ever think that it was Patsy that was molesting her when daddy was away?

It is possible, but very rare I understand.

Its probably not rare, we just don't hear about it.

 

[LinasK]

Linask,
BUT, the autopsy reports also says "extensive hemorraghing (sp?)". So I am confused. Can you enlighten me on the bleeding in the brain and let me know if you can clear this up for me on whether there is more bleeding than Wecht presents. Thanks very much. Solace )

I can explain a Contracoup injury- that is the correct term, I used to work with Brain Injury patients. It's when you experience brain damage from the force of the brain hitting the inside of the skull (bone) and bouncing back again. You have major tissue damage, and there are numerous blood vessels inside your brain, so you are going to have extensive bleeding inside the skull, it's also referred to as a Traumatic Brain Injury, or a Closed Head Injury vs. an Open Head Injury. To me this says that the strangulation didn't finish her off, just render her unconscious and the head injury was committed to ensure she was dead. To answer the question more precisely, it sounds like the bleeding went on for quite awhile and she died slowly if there was that much blood found.
Is this answer confusing?

 

[narlacat]

Ever think that it was Patsy that was molesting her when daddy was away?

Or maybe someone was being punished for wetting the bed.

 

[narlacat]

<<It is possible that Patsy could have stopped this because if JB were able to learn how to dance the way she did and perform, she certainly could have been taught to stop wetting the bed.>>

I don't think bedwetting issues are that easy to deal with.
I think time has to run it's course and maybe the child will grow out of it.

 

[lilsister]

I thought I read somewhere that bedwetting can not only be psycological but also physical. Kids grow so fast that sometimes their organs etc. don't grow as quickly and their bladders for example can not accomodate all that they drink during a day etc.

 

[UKGuy]

This poster at Forums for Justice has confirmed that Cyril Wecht agrees with my theory!:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

LinasK,

All this sex-game theory is inconsistent with the forensic evidence.

The ligature and garrote were applied postmortem, although her necklace and cross are entangled in the ligature, there are no marks, abrasions, or contusions that you would expect to see after a strangulation.

Her hair is embedded into the knot that attaches to the paintbrush handle, this tells you it is part of the staging.

Her hyoid is intact, it should have been compressed by the ligature.

The ligature furrow around her neck is not as deep as you would expect, never mind it being nice and circular e.g. not twisted from any struggle.

The sex-game idea is simply an extension of Lou Smit's Psychopathic Intruder Theory.

Since it was he that mooted the ligature was not a strangulation tool but a sexual device, all spin of course ...



.

 

[dottierainbow]

My daughter was such a sound sleeper she wet the bed. She wasn't molested.Bedwetting does not point to molestation and neither does yeast infections. Bubble baths can even produce yeast infections among other things. I'm sure many posters have had yeast infections not caused by molestations.
Amy

I thought I read somewhere that bedwetting can not only be psycological but also physical. Kids grow so fast that sometimes their organs etc. don't grow as quickly and their bladders for example can not accomodate all that they drink during a day etc.

 

[MedEditor]

Originally posted by UKGuy:

Some background:
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.mediawhore.com

Further evidence of John Ramsey's character burst into public view recently when the tabloids (god luv 'em) revealed the name of one Kimberly Ballard, who allegedly had an affair with family man, father of "Daddy's Little Girl," John Ramsey. While Patsy was undergoing chemotherapy treatments for cancer, John Ramsey was perusing the personal ads in the back of USA Today as I guess discerning millionaires do. After a Tucson tryst with Ms. Ballard (who was pre-qualified by J.R. as petite and blonde) they continued to see and know one another for some three months until Ballard, feeling a little uncomfortable, broke it off.


I placed the statement about Ms. Ballard being "pre-qualified" in bold type. I don't post often, but I do read here quite often and that quote sent a chill down my spine. While I have always believed that a Ramsey was somehow involved in JonBenet's death (or at the very least knows what happened), I was never quite sure about the possibility of John abusing JonBenet.

While I'm still not sure, that quote about John "pre-qualifying" a woman because she is "petite and blonde" brought JonBenet's pageant photos to my mind. It sure appeared that she was made-up to be a "petite and blonde" woman-figure.

I understand that the article and "quote" originated in a tabloid, but if somewhat accurate, I find it chilling.

JMO.

MedEditor

 

[Linda7NJ]

LinasK,

All this sex-game theory is inconsistent with the forensic evidence.

The ligature and garrote were applied postmortem, although her necklace and cross are entangled in the ligature, there are no marks, abrasions, or contusions that you would expect to see after a strangulation.

Her hair is embedded into the knot that attaches to the paintbrush handle, this tells you it is part of the staging.

Her hyoid is intact, it should have been compressed by the ligature.

The ligature furrow around her neck is not as deep as you would expect, never mind it being nice and circular e.g. not twisted from any struggle.

The sex-game idea is simply an extension of Lou Smit's Psychopathic Intruder Theory.

Since it was he that mooted the ligature was not a strangulation tool but a sexual device, all spin of course ...



.

I think whoever killed her didn't expect strangulation to take such a long time. I believe when JonBenet fell unconscious and began involuntary spasms the murderer then panicked, bashed her head to finish the job.

Then the staging began.

Or it happened the way you suggest:waitasec:

 

[LaMer]

I agree, I do think John was JB's abuser. I also think possibly the reason he kept his older daughter's photo in his bathroom, after her death, was that he may have abused her too... JMHO!

Michael Jackson hid his in his bathroom...

OMG, exactly what I have always wondered about too. Strange place to have kept his older daughter's picture, and this has always bothered me. In the bathroom? WIERD Why not on his dresser or nightstand? But in his bathroom? Makes me wonder :waitasec:

 

[ellen13]

Hi Cami,

There is a huge possibility that John was molesting JB. I just don't feel that he played this violent sex game with her. But, there are times that I am not sure that something was going on sexually. As I write this, I am saying to myself, of course there was. The child was constantly wetting her bed and had horrible vaginitis. It had to be incredibly painful and she must have wanted it to stop - she had to want to feel better. So everything points to sexual abuse.

It is possible that Patsy could have stopped this because if JB were able to learn how to dance the way she did and perform, she certainly could have been taught to stop wetting the bed.

That is why I am inclined to believe it is true. Also in answer to the previous poster who says JB would not have cried so much if he were molesting her. maybe JB was not quite sure of what was going on and is absolutely in love with him, as little girls are.

there is a huge misconception about bed-wetting. there are many reasons why kids wet the bed and often times, it's out of their control.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

there is a huge misconception about bed-wetting. there are many reasons why kids wet the bed and often times, it's out of their control.

I think JonBenet's situation was different. Housekeeper LHP said JB wet the bed frequently when she first started working there, then it stopped for six months, then started up again about a month before she was killed. She also had issues with wiping herself after using the toilet, and there's the story of LHP finding a spot of fecal matter the size of a grapefruit on JB's bed once. Factor in all the vaginitis (not from bubble baths - what mother would keep putting her daughter in bubble baths after she had vaginal irritation from it once?) and that doesn't sound like JB's body grew faster than her bladder.

Something really bad was happening to her.

 

[Solace]

I can explain a Contracoup injury- that is the correct term, I used to work with Brain Injury patients. It's when you experience brain damage from the force of the brain hitting the inside of the skull (bone) and bouncing back again. You have major tissue damage, and there are numerous blood vessels inside your brain, so you are going to have extensive bleeding inside the skull, it's also referred to as a Traumatic Brain Injury, or a Closed Head Injury vs. an Open Head Injury. To me this says that the strangulation didn't finish her off, just render her unconscious and the head injury was committed to ensure she was dead. To answer the question more precisely, it sounds like the bleeding went on for quite awhile and she died slowly if there was that much blood found.
Is this answer confusing?

Are you saying that there was very little blood in her brain? Are you also saying that someone could be hit this severely and not bleed into the brain? If you are saying that, then it is possible that the hitting came first. Is that possible. I realize you do not agree with that theory. I am just asking if it is possible? OR are you saying in order for their to be so little blood, the strangulation HAD to come first?

 

[BBB167893]

Are you saying that there was very little blood in her brain? Are you also saying that someone could be hit this severely and not bleed into the brain? If you are saying that, then it is possible that the hitting came first. Is that possible. I realize you do not agree with that theory. I am just asking if it is possible? OR are you saying in order for their to be so little blood, the strangulation HAD to come first?

I'm not saying there was little blood in the brain. There was massive bleeding. One area of three measured 8x4 inches, PLUS, the brain had swollen so much that the brain matter was flattened against the skull. But, to think someone hit this severely could not bleed much, it can happen. My dad fought in Vietnam. One time on patrols, his unit found a man with part of his head blown away. He was still alive! He lived almost three hours. Head injuries are a funny thing.

 

[LinasK]

Are you saying that there was very little blood in her brain? Are you also saying that someone could be hit this severely and not bleed into the brain? If you are saying that, then it is possible that the hitting came first. Is that possible. I realize you do not agree with that theory. I am just asking if it is possible? OR are you saying in order for their to be so little blood, the strangulation HAD to come first?

I think the strangulation came first.

 

[aussiesheila]

You don't know that. John could have been molesting her after she made these comments. No one but John knows. I prefer to believe the trained doctors who believed she was molested.

cami, I didn't say JonBenet was not molested, I said she was not molested by John. I'm sorry I did not make that clear. I believe JonBenet was most definitely being molested, but by others, specifically John's father-in-law and his best friend, and I think it had been going on for years.